Dragon Ball Daima (2024)

[LoganForkHands73]

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI

If Dragon Ball had ended after Freeza then it would have ended without Goku mastering Super Saiyan.

Yet many fans think it should have ended after Freeza. I don't, I'm glad it continued after Freeza because I like what we got (Both Buu and Cell arcs despite souring on the Cell arc a bit), but having Goku master Super Saiyan wasn't something I specifically needed to see happen.

In all fairness, I think this is a different situation. In the Namek arc, we had no frame of reference for what a “mastered” Super Saiyan might look like. All we knew was that Goku was a Super Saiyan and he could access that power at will, with no apparent drawbacks beyond the expected battle fatigue from a match with the universe’s other strongest being. The later arcs established that there were higher heights for Goku to reach by training his Super Saiyan forms to peak capacity.

In contrast, you have Ultra Instinct, which both the anime and manga establish as a very volatile and unreliable power that Goku struggles to utilise. Case in point, he spends most of the anime in the beta version of the form and only gets the silver-haired version in the literal last minute of the tournament. He wouldn’t be pushed to use Ultra Instinct at full power again until he met Moro, and even then it was still established that he had some ways to go in terms of incorporating it into his natural fighting style. Super Saiyan never had that problem.

For Ultra Instinct, there is at least the manga that follows up on it in a more satisfying way, though there are still places for it to go in all mediums. Freeza also remains a complete loose end in all mediums. There are a handful of other lingering plot threads that most have unfortunately given up hope of seeing through.

[Psajdak]

Beerus' role is that of a comic relief character now, regardless of his power.

[SupremeKai25]

For me personally the only for Super to end "properly" is a UI Goku vs Beerus rematch wherein Goku defeats him.

This new (Super) era of Dragon Ball started with Goku losing to Beerus it should end with Goku defeating him.

But, in terms of the Super anime, a Beerus rematch is unnecessary.

The Anime showed us that Goku surpassed Beerus when he completed UI and defeated Jiren, the mortal stronger than the Gods of Destruction.

A Beerus rematch was only ever necessary in the Manga, where the position of Beerus in relation to Goku/Jiren was never made clear.

In the Anime, it was quickly established that Jiren > Beerus, and since Goku defeated Jiren, he has surpassed Beerus too. As a result, Beerus rematch is unnecessary in Anime/Toei series.

If Goku can't access that power, then he isn't stronger than the GoD and Jiren. That is why it would be good to see Goku gain access to UI at will, just like in the manga. Right now in the anime he doesn't have access to that power anymore.

That is the reason why Goku can't beat Broly, since he doesn't have access to UI, at least in the anime version.


The anime has yet to show why Goku is a experienced fighter who is very knowledgable. In DBS Super Heroes they made Goku look really bad.

It doesn't matter if he can't access that power, because he still possesses it.

Goku has already proven that he has surpassed the Destroyers in the Anime, any kind of rematch is unnecessary and irrelevant. Beerus and the Destroyers already know in the Anime that they are surpassed by Goku and even stand up to respect him. Goku being unable to use UI at will is irrelevant, he already proved that he can use that power when pushed far enough and that's all that matters.

Toriyama clearly doesn't think the UI plotline is worth continuing, which is why UI hasn't made any appearance in Broly and Super Hero.

There's no point in wasting time with the UI/Beerus "rematch" plotlines again. They were resolved and shelved by Toei at the end of the Super Anime.

[IntangibleFancy]

I really hope they don't just drop Dragon Ball Super like some unimportant side story they didn't want.

Unlike GT, that actually ended, Dragon Ball Super still had things I wanted to see. I would have loved to see what they did with the 70 minutes of cut content from DBS Broly was. I wouldn't even mind a movie recap or filler, I was actually hoping any season 2 started with that instead of a straight jump to Moro.

Also unlike GT, Battle of Gods and Super introduced so many characters I don't want to say goodbye to. Beerus, Whis, Meerus, Vados, Champa, Hit, Jiren, Broly, I could go on. Are they just going to dump them all on Heroes now? What about the video games? They're leaving out so much content. If we're never going to see Super again, the games should add the Moro arc in.

[Hellspawn28]

I hope them being kids is a one time thing. They don't have everyone be kids for 100+ something is.

[kemuri07]

No it didn't.

Goku still hasn't mastered UI

If Dragon Ball had ended after Freeza then it would have ended without Goku mastering Super Saiyan.

Yet many fans think it should have ended after Freeza. I don't, I'm glad it continued after Freeza because I like what we got (Both Buu and Cell arcs despite souring on the Cell arc a bit), but having Goku master Super Saiyan wasn't something I specifically needed to see happen.

1. Remember Toriyama makes shit as he goes along. The idea of a mastered Super Saiyan most likely was not on Toriyama’s mind. Hell I doubt ascended Saiyan or SSJ2 were either.


2. The reason why most people would be ok with the show ending after Frieza because it completes Goku’s character arc from a lowly saiyan warrior to being capable of defeating Frieza. By this point, Goku’s arc is done. If DBZ ended there, it absolutely would be a complete story.

[Rafa Fast]

He appears during the credits of Movie 9 (or Movie 10 or Movie 11, can't remember which one).

Movie 11, Movie 9 was released when Boo Saga wasn't even in the anime yet so they definitely wouldn't show Goten.

Also, do you guys referr to Bra and Marron as fighters?

They should be. It would be cool to see them fighting as well, not just Pan. It would also serve to balance out more the majority of male cast.

Then fellow Toriyama disagrees with you, everything the two have shown so far shows that they would at best be supporting characters like Bulma, Dende and other characters who don't fight but can help the protagonists.
Judging by the series' history, new characters have to show interest in fighting in order to give the slightest indication that they will actually be warriors in future arcs (Pan demonstrates this in EoZ, and in GT she fights alongside Goku and Trunks) When this doesn't happen then the only chance for character X to show any indication that he can become a warrior is if this character has a huge battle potential, so crisis will call it, it's basically what happened to Gohan in the Saiyajin Saga.
But that could be changed, so, idk, don't lose your hope.

1. Remember Toriyama makes shit as he goes along. The idea of a mastered Super Saiyan most likely was not on Toriyama’s mind. Hell I doubt ascended Saiyan or SSJ2 were either.

As Vegeta and Trunks had no trouble in transforming into SSJ DND for Cell, and Gohan could go SSJ2 again after going back to SSJ1, I personally think that the idea of these forms not needing to be mastered after transforming for the first time was always in his mind.

2. The reason why most people would be ok with the show ending after Frieza because it completes Goku’s character arc from a lowly saiyan warrior to being capable of defeating Frieza. By this point, Goku’s arc is done. If DBZ ended there, it absolutely would be a complete story.

And leave Gohan as a weakling? Leave Vegeta around without showing what would be his next plans? Piccolo still with a bit of evil left? (Remember that in the Cell arc he still says that he have plans for world domination before the fusion with Kami)
No, thanks, like, don't take me wrong, but to this day, all the people I've seen saying that Z should end with Frieza, to me it always seems like it's just because they don't like the two sagas that come after it, with some even admitting it's exactly that.

Not only that, but Goku being unable to use UI at will also ties nicely with the Movies and the End of Z, where Goku doesn't show any sign of UI.

Of course he doesn't show any sigh of UI in the End of Z, just as he also doesn't show any sigh of Super Saiyajin God and Blue, EoZ was made 28 years ago and those 3 forms in the past decade, and in Super Hero there was no need for him to use UI, and in Broly, yes, not even a single comment on UI, because he isn't meant to use it at will before the training with Merus.

Regardless of Goku having surpassed the Hakaishins with the UI in the anime, he hasn't mastered it yet, so this happened in the anime version of Moro Saga, which for now only happened off-screen (supposedly)

The anime made Goku into a complete amateur. That is something that the anime needs to fix.

The anime has yet to show why Goku is a experienced fighter who is very knowledgable. In DBS Super Heroes they made Goku look really bad.

DBS Super Heroes movie makes Goku look like a total fool, who doesn't deserve UI at all. Totally clueless about meditation.
Goku deserved to lose against Vegeta in that movie. Goku didn't look like a master or pro at all.

In DBS Super Heroes he is a clown. A total amateur that shouldn't have been written like that.

Right now Manga Goku > Anime Goku by a lot.

Eh, no? Sure, what he said in Super Hero really is messed, but you really think that completely ruins his character?
I really would like to understand your claims about Goku being a Homer Simpson 2.0 in the Super anime, because man, you can hate on the Anime as much as you want, but you'll just convince people around you that you didn't even watch Super correctly as you never try to explain it, yes, Toei made Goku act more silly, when he's not fighting, what about when he's fighting??

Those comments screams for me someone who was clearly sleeping when the anime was showing moments like Beerus and Whis being surprised more than twice by Goku, or when he was analysing Vegeta"s fight with Hitto so he could plan on how he could break the Time skip, something he did indeed accomplish at least for most of the time, and many more
How can a amateur martial artist, someone who is dumb and doesn't know shit about fighting surprise two deities and specially, someone who has 1000 years of experience?

For me that just screams someone who doesn't want to understand the character and just want to shit on it because can't accept that the billion dollar company made him have more silly moments than in the previous 3 animes, all of these claims look completely superficial and I've seen better complains about it, damn, remember when Beerus was scared by his Blue + Kaioken, not only that, but during his fight against Hitto he did acknowledge that Blue + Kaioken would fuck his body completely, he comments on that, again, Super Amateur Fighter huh?

If you still insist that Super Anime Goku is brainless then go on and please ignore this, I have no interest in discussing this any further, this is a subject that got stupid, boring, saturated, exhaustive, useless and specially annoying a long time ago and I'm extremely sick of it, not wasting anymore of my time with this pointless discussion.
With that said, this is getting off topic, so back to Daima
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As I keep seeing people spreading the misinformation about the series being inspired by GT or being a reimagination of GT, I wonder if they indeed do not intend to use any concept of GT
Like, Kaioshin and Kibito are there, let's remember, who were responsible for making Goku's tail grow back in GT?
If there are so many people expecting to see a canon SSJ4 in this series then I believe that's the chance for it to happen
Unless Toriyama just forgot about the tails of course lol

[Psajdak]

Well, to be fair, Goku did seem like a retard in Super from time to time.

From my own experience with other Toei famous franchises, it kinda seemed to me that writers wanted to make Goku both endearing, and relatable by being dumb (if that makes any sense), as well as being some underestimated dark horse who eventually ends up surprising everyone when he reveals his true power.

I mean, you know what I'm talking about.

In a way, if his personality remains the same as in DBS, child form would kinda be fitting for him.

[Salt-sensei]

So... any clues on where Gohan is? It's really weird that he got left out of the trailer when even his granpa is there.

[JulieYBM]

So... any clues on where Gohan is? It's really weird that he got left out of the trailer when even his granpa is there.

There is no official word yet on what role Gohan will play in this animated series. Call back later.

[The Monkey King]

The idea of Coleen Clinkenbeard voicing Kid Goku for an entire series makes me want to throw up. I think I'll be avoiding the English dub like the plague.

[mecha3000]

The idea of Coleen Clinkenbeard voicing Kid Goku for an entire series makes me want to throw up. I think I'll be avoiding the English dub like the plague.

Really? In my opinion, that's one of the things that excites me the most. We've never really gotten a chance to hear Colleen's full range as Kid Goku (and no, Gohan in Kai doesn't count) outside of flashbacks, Curse of the Blood Rubies redub, and video games.

I was kind of hoping we'd get a Dragon Ball anime reboot where Colleen and Rial can voice Goku and Bulma for the entire series (even though Schemmel would certainly voice him from Piccolo Jr onwards), but this is the next best thing.

Also, does anyone think Daima will get a companion manga? If so, Naho Ooishi should write/draw it while Toyotaro continues Super. She's already done SD, which plays heavily into the chibi stuff.

[Rafa Fast]

Well, to be fair, Goku did seem like a retard in Super from time to time.

And that is true, but that's not my point, the problem is that the guy insists in exposing his controversial opinion as a fact, and it's clear that not everyone agrees with
If you think that Goku in Super TV is dumb all the time, even in battles, it's okay, your opinion, keep it to yourself, but now force it for others as a fact instead of a opinion is just annoying, literally no one was discussing about Goku then the guy randomly started saying "Goku from Super anime is dumb he deserves to be a loser he should never have achieved the UI" and kept repeating that for at least three times when literally no one was talking about it
I could go deeper into this, but I don't want to, this is just the kind of behavior that makes me consider discussions about our beloved franchise anything but entertaining, let's end this here for good.
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The absence of Gohan and Videl made me think about something, do we know when exactly their wedding happened? AFAIK we just know that it happened shortly before BoG
I wonder if the party we see in the background of Capsule Corp isn't their wedding party, like, everyone's reunited (r.i.p Tenshinhan and Chaozu), even Mark is there, seems likely to me.
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I wonder if the trailer not having any voice acting has something to do with they changing the voice cast, for example, if they replace Nozawa, then I suppose she's going to voice the Adult Goku from the first episode before he's turned into a kid?
I didn't hear anything wrong with her performance as Kid Goku in the Kakaroto DLC, but fans complained about it, so I don't see they making her voice Kid Goku in Daima then switch to a new VA when Goku returns to his adult form...
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Also, does anyone think Daima will get a companion manga? If so, Naho Ooishi should write/draw it while Toyotaro continues Super. She's already done SD, which plays heavily into the chibi stuff.

Did she even do anything for the franchise after SD? If not, then I don't see it happening.

[Shaddy]

Really? In my opinion, that's one of the things that excites me the most. We've never really gotten a chance to hear Colleen's full range as Kid Goku (and no, Gohan in Kai doesn't count) outside of flashbacks, Curse of the Blood Rubies redub, and video games.

She just sounds like Luffy, except maybe a bit more strained when she's trying to push it higher. It's nothing special, I assure you.

[Adamant]

Did she even do anything for the franchise after SD? If not, then I don't see it happening.

"After" SD? SD is still running, it just got to Trunks killing Freeza this month.

[super michael]

Rafa Fast in DB/DBZ Goku was a expert at training and could figures things out like why Ginyu couldn't use his full power, when he was using Goku body.
Goku experience got so high that he learned how to read people mind, just like Korin and Master Roshi.

In DBS Broly Movie we know Goku can't access UI, even when he is losing. That is a fact.
DBS Broly happen after the ToP.

Goku didn't know what meditation was in DBS Super Heroes, a huge contradiction. Goku didn't understand why meditation was training and controlling one power to defeat enemy, while Vegeta understood.
Does that sound like a character that deserves UI? I think not.
DBS Super Heroes happens after DBS Broly movie.


So yes it is a fact that DBS Anime Goku intelligence is lower than DB/DBZ. Heck just look at Beerus in a costume episode, couldn't figure anything out. He was that dumb.

I could list all the times Goku was dumb in DBS anime, but there is no need to do so here.

[Skar]

You definitely could tell more stories about Goku learning to turn on Ultra Instinct at will, but I don't think that needed to happen for the story to "end properly". "Super" opens with the introduction of the God of Destruction, and the revelation that there are multiple universes. The Super TV anime, at least, ended with Goku having achieved the greatest technique of the gods which got him a standing ovation from all of the Gods of Destruction; he fought the mortal who was stronger than a God of Destruction, and decisively bested him using the technique. In this way, he fought the strong guys the "multiple universes" thread opened, and vicariously through them passed the God of Destruction who bested him at the beginning. I think that's a "proper ending", though there's definitely room to keep going with it if you wanted to (ie: Goku getting better at Ultra Instinct, rematches against Beerus, Geran, etc.).

I do agree the ToP would've worked as a good ending since it does kinda come full circle with what was established in BoG. I think the issue is that Broly and SH continue where the ToP left off so they're not like Wrath of the Dragon that's more of a bonus movie taking place after the Buu saga. If the story ended at the ToP, we could've assume Goku's training with Whis was complete and he'll train on his own to use UI like how he improved on techniques he learned from previous masters after finishing his training with them and that Freeza was maybe thankful to be revived so he'll leave them alone. Broly and SH still have Goku training with Whis implying he still has more to learn and Freeza still wanting revenge.

[super michael]

You definitely could tell more stories about Goku learning to turn on Ultra Instinct at will, but I don't think that needed to happen for the story to "end properly". "Super" opens with the introduction of the God of Destruction, and the revelation that there are multiple universes. The Super TV anime, at least, ended with Goku having achieved the greatest technique of the gods which got him a standing ovation from all of the Gods of Destruction; he fought the mortal who was stronger than a God of Destruction, and decisively bested him using the technique. In this way, he fought the strong guys the "multiple universes" thread opened, and vicariously through them passed the God of Destruction who bested him at the beginning. I think that's a "proper ending", though there's definitely room to keep going with it if you wanted to (ie: Goku getting better at Ultra Instinct, rematches against Beerus, Geran, etc.).

I do agree the ToP would've worked as a good ending since it does kinda come full circle with what was established in BoG. I think the issue is that Broly and SH continue where the ToP left off so they're not like Wrath of the Dragon that's more of a bonus movie taking place after the Buu saga. If the story ended at the ToP, we could've assume Goku's training with Whis was complete and he'll train on his own to use UI like how he improved on techniques he learned from previous masters after finishing his training with them and that Freeza was maybe thankful to be revived so he'll leave them alone. Broly and SH still have Goku training with Whis implying he still has more to learn and Freeza still wanting revenge.

If there was no DBS Broly and DBS Super Heroes, it would be save to assume that Goku mastered to use UI at will.

However DBS Broly shows he can't use UI at will, even when losing that isn't enough, even when his enemy is strong.
No fusion = lose.

DBS Super Heroes there is no evidence that he can use UI at all. The fact that Goku can't understand anything what Vegeta was doing and explaining, that was really bad.
Even when Whis was explaining it, still nothing Goku was clueless.
So Goku intelligence and skills went down after the ToP.



Now DBS Manga Toyotaro made Goku feel like a expert, especially all the feat he has with UI and being able to use it freely. That is another reason why it would be good to animate the manga chapters, then we can see smart Goku in anime.

[dragonballhero]

Some people are saying Daima can't take place before Super because Kaioshin/Kibito are defused but that doesn't matter. They could have asked their wish sooner. Although the most likely scenario is that the de-aging spell forced them to defuse, because there's no younger Kibitoshin...

Saw this on twitter:


I find suspect how important Buu arc events seem to be in the teaser and how Beerus/Whis aren't shown. Granted we don't see Gohan/Videl either but Beerus/Whis have been pretty much the main faces of modern Dragon Ball.

To be completely honest, ever since the absolute SHIT ending that is the Zamasu arc's ending, it's honestly been easier for me to comprehend it, by thinking of the Dragon Ball "canon" as a "branching timeline". At least this way, I don't have to entertain the possibility that Future Trunks is "destined" to be totally fucked over by the gods, just for trying to save his reality.

With all that being said, I'm actually hoping that Daima for that matter actually ends up kicking off a new "branch" in the Dragon Ball timeline. I think it'll be nice to get a sort of 'adventure' timeline (Daima) and 'divinity' timeline (Super) and 'interstellar' timeline (GT)

If you don't mind, could I get the link to this post you're referring to?

[SupremeKai25]

Of course he doesn't show any sigh of UI in the End of Z, just as he also doesn't show any sigh of Super Saiyajin God and Blue, EoZ was made 28 years ago and those 3 forms in the past decade, and in Super Hero there was no need for him to use UI, and in Broly, yes, not even a single comment on UI, because he isn't meant to use it at will before the training with Merus.

Regardless of Goku having surpassed the Hakaishins with the UI in the anime, he hasn't mastered it yet, so this happened in the anime version of Moro Saga, which for now only happened off-screen (supposedly)

Goku completed UI in the Anime.

Ep. 129 Title "A Transcendent Limit Break! Autonomous Ultra Instinct Mastered!" states that Goku mastered/completed UI, and at the end of that episode, Beerus states that Goku completed the Autonomous UI form and he and the other Destroyers stand up to respect him.

So Anime Goku has mastered UI. Done, that plotline has been completed as far as Toei is concerned.

To be completely honest, ever since the absolute SHIT ending that is the Zamasu arc's ending, it's honestly been easier for me to comprehend it, by thinking of the Dragon Ball "canon" as a "branching timeline". At least this way, I don't have to entertain the possibility that Future Trunks is "destined" to be totally fucked over by the gods, just for trying to save his reality.

It actually makes complete sense within the context of Super, which is a series all about the Gods and how they work.

The Gods constantly repeat that time travel is dangerous and a sin, a taboo even for the Gods (Even they are forbidden from travelling to the past like Trunks did in DBZ). Beerus threatens to destroy the Earth multiple times when he hears of time travel, Gowasu says that whoever time travelled and created new Time Rings was a fool, Goku is warned that even mentioning time travel to Grand Zeno would cause him to snap and erase everything, and one of the main motivations behind Zamasu's Project Zero Mortals was mortal abuse of time travel. In the Manga, Rumsshi (U10 God) is afraid that the Grand Priest wants to punish him and Gowasu for Zamasu's dangerous actions.

Why some people dislike this plotline/ending so much? Does it not make the story more complex and interesting?

It would be "nice" if it was as simple as "Trunks wanted to save people with time travel so he should be rewarded", but Toriyama/Toei/Toyotaro wanted a slightly more complex plotline, and so it's not that simple. Trunks' time travel created multiple alternate realities and this is considered a terrible danger/crime by the Gods, so Trunks had the to be punished by the storyline.

Either way it's a story that Toriyama clearly wanted to tell, so it doesn't make sense for him to retcon one of his own storylines with Daima.