Grimlock wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:40 pm
He appears during the credits of Movie 9 (or Movie 10 or Movie 11, can't remember which one).
Movie 11, Movie 9 was released when Boo Saga wasn't even in the anime yet so they definitely wouldn't show Goten.
Rafa Fast wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:09 pmAlso, do you guys referr to Bra and Marron as fighters?
They should be. It would be cool to see them fighting as well, not just Pan. It would also serve to balance out more the majority of male cast.
Then fellow Toriyama disagrees with you, everything the two have shown so far shows that they would at best be supporting characters like Bulma, Dende and other characters who don't fight but can help the protagonists.
Judging by the series' history, new characters have to show interest in fighting in order to give the slightest indication that they will actually be warriors in future arcs (Pan demonstrates this in EoZ, and in GT she fights alongside Goku and Trunks) When this doesn't happen then the only chance for character X to show any indication that he can become a warrior is if this character has a huge battle potential, so crisis will call it, it's basically what happened to Gohan in the Saiyajin Saga.
But that could be changed, so, idk, don't lose your hope.
kemuri07 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:32 pm
1. Remember Toriyama makes shit as he goes along. The idea of a mastered Super Saiyan most likely was not on Toriyama’s mind. Hell I doubt ascended Saiyan or SSJ2 were either.
As Vegeta and Trunks had no trouble in transforming into SSJ DND for Cell, and Gohan could go SSJ2 again after going back to SSJ1, I personally think that the idea of these forms not needing to be mastered after transforming for the first time was always in his mind.
2. The reason why most people would be ok with the show ending after Frieza because it completes Goku’s character arc from a lowly saiyan warrior to being capable of defeating Frieza. By this point, Goku’s arc is done. If DBZ ended there, it absolutely would be a complete story.
And leave Gohan as a weakling? Leave Vegeta around without showing what would be his next plans? Piccolo still with a bit of evil left? (Remember that in the Cell arc he still says that he have plans for world domination before the fusion with Kami)
No, thanks, like, don't take me wrong, but to this day, all the people I've seen saying that Z should end with Frieza, to me it always seems like it's just because they don't like the two sagas that come after it, with some even admitting it's exactly that.
SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:52 pm
Not only that, but Goku being unable to use UI at will also ties nicely with the Movies and the End of Z, where Goku doesn't show any sign of UI.
Of course he doesn't show any sigh of UI in the End of Z, just as he also doesn't show any sigh of Super Saiyajin God and Blue, EoZ was made 28 years ago and those 3 forms in the past decade, and in Super Hero there was no need for him to use UI, and in Broly, yes, not even a single comment on UI, because he isn't meant to use it at will before the training with Merus.
Regardless of Goku having surpassed the Hakaishins with the UI in the anime, he hasn't mastered it yet, so this happened in the anime version of Moro Saga, which for now only happened off-screen (supposedly)
super michael wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:25 pm
The anime made Goku into a complete amateur. That is something that the anime needs to fix.
The anime has yet to show why Goku is a experienced fighter who is very knowledgable. In DBS Super Heroes they made Goku look really bad.
DBS Super Heroes movie makes Goku look like a total fool, who doesn't deserve UI at all. Totally clueless about meditation.
Goku deserved to lose against Vegeta in that movie. Goku didn't look like a master or pro at all.
In DBS Super Heroes he is a clown. A total amateur that shouldn't have been written like that.
Right now Manga Goku > Anime Goku by a lot.
Eh, no? Sure, what he said in Super Hero really is messed, but you really think that completely ruins his character?
I really would like to understand your claims about Goku being a Homer Simpson 2.0 in the Super anime, because man, you can hate on the Anime as much as you want, but you'll just convince people around you that you didn't even watch Super correctly as you never try to explain it, yes, Toei made Goku act more silly, when he's not fighting, what about when he's fighting??
Those comments screams for me someone who was clearly sleeping when the anime was showing moments like Beerus and Whis being surprised more than twice by Goku, or when he was analysing Vegeta"s fight with Hitto so he could plan on how he could break the Time skip, something he did indeed accomplish at least for most of the time, and many more
How can a amateur martial artist, someone who is dumb and doesn't know shit about fighting surprise two deities and specially, someone who has 1000 years of experience?
For me that just screams someone who doesn't want to understand the character and just want to shit on it because can't accept that the billion dollar company made him have more silly moments than in the previous 3 animes, all of these claims look completely superficial and I've seen better complains about it, damn, remember when Beerus was scared by his Blue + Kaioken, not only that, but during his fight against Hitto he did acknowledge that Blue + Kaioken would fuck his body completely, he comments on that, again, Super Amateur Fighter huh?
If you still insist that Super Anime Goku is brainless then go on and please ignore this, I have no interest in discussing this any further, this is a subject that got stupid, boring, saturated, exhaustive, useless and specially annoying a long time ago and I'm extremely sick of it, not wasting anymore of my time with this pointless discussion.
With that said, this is getting off topic, so back to Daima
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As I keep seeing people spreading the misinformation about the series being inspired by GT or being a reimagination of GT, I wonder if they indeed do not intend to use any concept of GT
Like, Kaioshin and Kibito are there, let's remember, who were responsible for making Goku's tail grow back in GT?
If there are so many people expecting to see a canon SSJ4 in this series then I believe that's the chance for it to happen
Unless Toriyama just forgot about the tails of course lol
I simply wouldn't want to imagine my life without Dragon Ball, thank you Akira Toriyama (1955-2024), you are now immortal.