Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Kazuya Mishima]

He said he was on par with Goku and Co. That could mean a lot.

It just means he's not a chump like the Earthlings any more and is more comparable to the Saiyans who get to be useful.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I imagine the general intent is that Gamma 1 and 2 are stand-ins for Goku and Vegeta in a sense, both in personality and in power.

Specifically, stand-ins for the general SSB range that Goku and Vegeta have as their standard shared highest level of power from the Tournament of Power all the way to Super Hero.

Toriyama likely approached the idea with the thought that SSB is at the usual level from RoF to the ToP to Broly to SH.

[picc]

When did Gohan display ssjb level power?

[Hugo Boss]

When did Gohan display ssjb level power?

He had a match against Goku in the anime in which he was equally matched with Super Saiyan Blue. In the manga, he was equally matched with Kefla, who was Super Saiyan Blue level in power.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

When did Gohan display ssjb level power?

He had a match against Goku in the anime in which he was equally matched with Super Saiyan Blue. In the manga, he was equally matched with Kefla, who was Super Saiyan Blue level in power.

As well, he re-attained his Ultimate state in a slight bit of rage at Pan being manhandled by a disguised Piccolo.

He might well have gained additional power from the strong emotions in the moment and simply retained it as his new level of Ultimate.

[Kazuya Mishima]

He wasn't Blue level in the manga during the ToP. He certainly wasn't current Blue level either after his two months of training.

Like Buu and Android 17 he's a step below that level.

[ZombieVito]

He wasn't Blue level in the manga during the ToP. He certainly wasn't current Blue level either after his two months of training.

Like Buu and Android 17 he's a step below that level.

He was evenly matched with Kefla and Kale was already low SSB level. There's no way Kefla wasn't high SSB level.

[Kazuya Mishima]

He wasn't Blue level in the manga during the ToP. He certainly wasn't current Blue level either after his two months of training.

Like Buu and Android 17 he's a step below that level.

He was evenly matched with Kefla and Kale was already low SSB level. There's no way Kefla wasn't high SSB level.

They already said Gohan wasn't as strong as Goku during the ToP when he hadn't become Ultra Instinct yet.

Plus Goku as a Super Saiyan Blue was much stronger against Saganbo so still wasn't at that level.

[ZombieVito]

They already said Gohan wasn't as strong as Goku during the ToP when he hadn't become Ultra Instinct yet.

Plus Goku as a Super Saiyan Blue was much stronger against Saganbo so still wasn't at that level.

Just because he wasn't equal with Goku doesn't mean he's not SSB level. That's silly. Golden Freeza outright says he needs to get serious to beat Kale and Kefla is even stronger than her. They are both SSB level.

Also, Gohan had a rage boost against Moro so that could have easily stuck and made him closer with SSB Goku again.

[Kazuya Mishima]

But at the same time just because Frieza says he needs to be serious to beat Kale doesn't mean he wouldn't effortlessly wipe the floor with her if he were either.

[shadd21]

Is it true that Caulifa as an SSJ, could defeat Buuhan?

[Hugo Boss]

But at the same time just because Frieza says he needs to be serious to beat Kale doesn't mean he wouldn't effortlessly wipe the floor with her if he were either.

If Freeza says he needs to get serious, logically, that means, at least, he can’t effortlessly beat Kale. Anyway, he said that while Kale wasn’t using her full power. When her power skyrocketed again his reaction was “….!”. Kefla being able to handle 100% of that power with proficiency suggests she would be an even greater challenge. Probably only getting “serious” wouldn’t be enough.

Is it true that Caulifa as an SSJ, could defeat Buuhan?

Why do you ask this? So far, she is only compared to the Super Saiyans from Universe #7. Nothing suggests she is above any SS2.

[ZombieVito]

Is it true that Caulifa as an SSJ, could defeat Buuhan?

Yes and very easy as well.

[TobyS]

Is it true that Caulifa as an SSJ, could defeat Buuhan?

Yes and very easy as well.

Yes in the anime where god was absorbed in base initially and everyone has to scale to that.

In the manga absolutely not.

[ZombieVito]

Yes in the anime where god was absorbed in base initially and everyone has to scale to that.

In the manga absolutely not.

Manga as well but it's not as easy as the anime version.

[QuakingStar]

Toriyama never said they were Blue level so it's not ignoring anything.

They were shown to be on a level near equal to Ultimate Gohan. In the manga Ultimate Gohan is well below Super Saiyan Blue level.

Gohan started well below Blue, he was at that level around the time he got eliminated as within the 48mins of the ToP he went from Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan level, to tying Super Saiyan Kefla.

He proceeded to get far stronger than even that in the Moro Arc. He is most certainly Super Saiyan Blue level.

[Kazuya Mishima]

Gohan started well below Blue, he was at that level around the time he got eliminated as within the 48mins of the ToP he went from Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan level, to tying Super Saiyan Kefla.

He proceeded to get far stronger than even that in the Moro Arc. He is most certainly Super Saiyan Blue level.

He was still said to be Goku's lesser during the Tournament of Power. Nobody knows how much stronger he was in the Moro arc, "far stronger" is just an assumption.

In the Moro arc, he along with Piccolo and the Androids were completely outmatched by Saganbo who Super Saiyan Blue Goku best with little effort even after being powered up even more.

He's nowhere close to Blue level.

[QuakingStar]

Gohan started well below Blue, he was at that level around the time he got eliminated as within the 48mins of the ToP he went from Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan level, to tying Super Saiyan Kefla.

He proceeded to get far stronger than even that in the Moro Arc. He is most certainly Super Saiyan Blue level.

He was still said to be Goku's lesser during the Tournament of Power. Nobody knows how much stronger he was in the Moro arc, "far stronger" is just an assumption.

In the Moro arc, he along with Piccolo and the Androids were completely outmatched by Saganbo who Super Saiyan Blue Goku best with little effort even after being powered up even more.

He's nowhere close to Blue level.

You're not understanding how much stronger Goku and Vegeta got in base form alone before even equating in Super Saiyan Blue. Gohan was most definitely Super Saiyan Blue level, and it was implied he had trained for some time after that, and only stopped some time before SH. His rage boosts also could have very well boosted his Ultimate states strength for good, as every time he re-awakens it, not too long after he is stronger than he was before.

Another thing, is authors word is word of god. That means at the very least the gammas are the level Goku and Vegeta are at in SSB and Gohan with his Ultimate state in SH is slightly above that. It's called power creeping and it's a real thing.

Gohan in SH is most assuredly SSB level, and you not agreeing with it doesn't make it not true.

[Hugo Boss]

He was still said to be Goku's lesser during the Tournament of Power.

May I ask what exactly are you basing this on? Gohan was pretty much implied to be on par with Goku. The only thing that was said is that he could be stronger than Goku if he quits his job and devotes to training, since he managed to get that strong in such a short time.

[Kazuya Mishima]

You're not understanding how much stronger Goku and Vegeta got in base form alone before even equating in Super Saiyan Blue. Gohan was most definitely Super Saiyan Blue level, and it was implied he had trained for some time after that, and only stopped some time before SH. His rage boosts also could have very well boosted his Ultimate states strength for good, as every time he re-awakens it, not too long after he is stronger than he was before.

Another thing, is authors word is word of god. That means at the very least the gammas are the level Goku and Vegeta are at in SSB and Gohan with his Ultimate state in SH is slightly above that. It's called power creeping and it's a real thing.

Gohan in SH is most assuredly SSB level, and you not agreeing with it doesn't make it not true.

Again nearly all assumption. It was "implied" he trained after? Ok, it wasn't "implied" he was as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku though was he? His rage boosts "could" have boosted his power? Could not have either.

Did the author say that the Gammas were specifically as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta? No he didn't. You're assuming that. He said they were on par with them. On par with what? Ultra Instinct? Super Saiyan Blue Evolution? Super Saiyan Blue? Super Saiyan 3? Super Saiyan? It was never said.

Orange Piccolo was also said to be on par with Goku according to word of God. Yet so are the Gammas apparently. Were the Gammas on par with Orange Piccolo? No. That's how much word of God is worth.

Super Saiyan Blue Goku was not in Super Hero. You've no idea how Gohan stacks up to him.

You do however know that Gohan certainly wasn't as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku in the Moro arc.