One Piece Remake, fans are so lucky...

[JulieYBM]

The last point that my half-asleep brain wants to make at this point in time is that if Dragon Ball is going to continue to be used as a 'modern' title, then it needs to actually not be shit. Like, it was shit in the 1980s and it's continued to be such, and nonsense from other fans (not trying to target you specifically, AliTheZombie13)/from the IP holders themselves like "but it starts in the 1980s" really isn't a real appeal. No sane publisher should've been putting out the shit that Dragon Ball contained, specifically aimed at children of all things. Good rep in media helps people find themselves, bad rep certainly helps people retreat deeper into themselves. In addition to other narrative and character changes, changes like fixing how women and queer people are portrayed definitely helps.

What other narrative and character changes do I mean? Honestly, you can do whatever. Like, you can still end the series the same way that it ends in Chapter #519 of the 1984-1995 comic series and just build up to that ending or you can goof around and create a different point and a different ending and then build up from there. If Dragon Ball is about always becoming stronger than you were the day before, what are the ways that people do that? What is strength? How do we become stronger? Who are we once we've become stronger? Those are all things that one can use an animated remake to ask.

[AliTheZombie13]

The last point that my half-asleep brain wants to make at this point in time is that if Dragon Ball is going to continue to be used as a 'modern' title, then it needs to actually not be shit. Like, it was shit in the 1980s and it's continued to be such, and nonsense from other fans (not trying to target you specifically, AliTheZombie13)/from the IP holders themselves like "but it starts in the 1980s" really isn't a real appeal. No sane publisher should've been putting out the shit that Dragon Ball contained, specifically aimed at children of all things. Good rep in media helps people find themselves, bad rep certainly helps people retreat deeper into themselves. In addition to other narrative and character changes, changes like fixing how women and queer people are portrayed definitely helps.

What other narrative and character changes do I mean? Honestly, you can do whatever. Like, you can still end the series the same way that it ends in Chapter #519 of the 1984-1995 comic series and just build up to that ending or you can goof around and create a different point and a different ending and then build up from there. If Dragon Ball is about always becoming stronger than you were the day before, what are the ways that people do that? What is strength? How do we become stronger? Who are we once we've become stronger? Those are all things that one can use an animated remake to ask.

Mind you, I'm not trying to excuse things that happened back then, or saying they should be kept in modern times, I'm just saying it didn't affect me personally because I understand the social context of the time it was made in.

Whenever you watch something made over 20-30 years ago, you do need to keep in mind, "this was made back then, social media wasn't a thing and people could get away with a lot, expect it to be incredibly sexist, racist, homophobic and [insert 'ist here] at times."

I do not, however, think that these should be kept around because they were already a thing back then.
All the jokes in Super about, "Oh, Bulma is old and her boobs are saggy and nobody loves her anymore." Cringed the hell out of me.
The same way #18 is largely portrayed as a housewife and a non-fighter, with the excuse of, "You're stronger than me, so... You watch over our kid (????)"
Likewise, if GT is ever given a second chance, I would like whoever came up with the idea of sexualizing Pan to be far, far, far, far removed from any important position whatsoever, preferably fired and seeking help.

[MasenkoHA]

The last point that my half-asleep brain wants to make at this point in time is that if Dragon Ball is going to continue to be used as a 'modern' title, then it needs to actually not be shit. Like, it was shit in the 1980s and it's continued to be such, and nonsense from other fans (not trying to target you specifically, AliTheZombie13)/from the IP holders themselves like "but it starts in the 1980s" really isn't a real appeal. No sane publisher should've been putting out the shit that Dragon Ball contained, specifically aimed at children of all things. Good rep in media helps people find themselves, bad rep certainly helps people retreat deeper into themselves. In addition to other narrative and character changes, changes like fixing how women and queer people are portrayed definitely helps.

What other narrative and character changes do I mean? Honestly, you can do whatever. Like, you can still end the series the same way that it ends in Chapter #519 of the 1984-1995 comic series and just build up to that ending or you can goof around and create a different point and a different ending and then build up from there. If Dragon Ball is about always becoming stronger than you were the day before, what are the ways that people do that? What is strength? How do we become stronger? Who are we once we've become stronger? Those are all things that one can use an animated remake to ask.

Mind you, I'm not trying to excuse things that happened back then, or saying they should be kept in modern times, I'm just saying it didn't affect me personally because I understand the social context of the time it was made in.

Whenever you watch something made over 20-30 years ago, you do need to keep in mind, "this was made back then, social media wasn't a thing and people could get away with a lot, expect it to be incredibly sexist, racist, homophobic and [insert 'ist here] at times."

I do not, however, think that these should be kept around because they were already a thing back then.
All the jokes in Super about, "Oh, Bulma is old and her boobs are saggy and nobody loves her anymore." Cringed the hell out of me.
The same way #18 is largely portrayed as a housewife and a non-fighter, with the excuse of, "You're stronger than me, so... You watch over our kid (????)"
Likewise, if GT is ever given a second chance, I would like whoever came up with the idea of sexualizing Pan to be far, far, far, far removed from any important position whatsoever, preferably fired and seeking help.

This is pretty much where I stand. "It was made in the 80s" isn't an excuse as much as it's an explanation for why that material is even there in the first place. It's a reflection of the time it was made it, that doesn't make it okay, but you either accept it (while hopefully acknowledging why it should have never been there in the first place) and move on or you don't.

And while there's definitely still issues with the modern material (the aforementioned bit with 18 you pointed out, the Roshi stuff that got the series pulled temporarily in Argentina, fatphobic and sexist jokes about women losing their appeal as they get older) it's at least showing it's getting better. Toriyama now seems to be able to draw black people without looking like his entire reference was old racist Warner Bros cartoons, Whis, Kale, and Caulifa are leaps and bounds better gay rep than Blue and Otokosuki. Kale and Caulifa and even Ribrianne are welcomed additions to a series that seemed allergic to female fighters unless they retired and became housewives.

[Jord]

As far as "remakes" go, I really liked the Path to Power retelling with that awesome art style.

[8000 Saiyan]

What the fuck does capitalism have to do with Dragon Ball?

capitalism is why dragon ball super was greenlit only three months before it aired, and fucked over one of Toei Animation's best directors from the very beginning.

hell, capitalism is why a producer (pretty sure it was Hayashida) blamed veteran animators and called them newbies (they were all 10+ year veterans), instead of blaming the unchecked greed of executives to get a series out just three months after Fukkatsu no F.

Also, like, Toriyama literally began to draw comics to make money. That's how commercial art is done in our fucked up way of distributing wealth.

That's how things work.

[JulieYBM]

What the fuck does capitalism have to do with Dragon Ball?

capitalism is why dragon ball super was greenlit only three months before it aired, and fucked over one of Toei Animation's best directors from the very beginning.

hell, capitalism is why a producer (pretty sure it was Hayashida) blamed veteran animators and called them newbies (they were all 10+ year veterans), instead of blaming the unchecked greed of executives to get a series out just three months after Fukkatsu no F.

Also, like, Toriyama literally began to draw comics to make money. That's how commercial art is done in our fucked up way of distributing wealth.

That's how things work.

Bad things are bad and we should criticize them until they're changed.

[super michael]

The last point that my half-asleep brain wants to make at this point in time is that if Dragon Ball is going to continue to be used as a 'modern' title, then it needs to actually not be shit. Like, it was shit in the 1980s and it's continued to be such, and nonsense from other fans (not trying to target you specifically, AliTheZombie13)/from the IP holders themselves like "but it starts in the 1980s" really isn't a real appeal. No sane publisher should've been putting out the shit that Dragon Ball contained, specifically aimed at children of all things. Good rep in media helps people find themselves, bad rep certainly helps people retreat deeper into themselves. In addition to other narrative and character changes, changes like fixing how women and queer people are portrayed definitely helps.

What other narrative and character changes do I mean? Honestly, you can do whatever. Like, you can still end the series the same way that it ends in Chapter #519 of the 1984-1995 comic series and just build up to that ending or you can goof around and create a different point and a different ending and then build up from there. If Dragon Ball is about always becoming stronger than you were the day before, what are the ways that people do that? What is strength? How do we become stronger? Who are we once we've become stronger? Those are all things that one can use an animated remake to ask.

Mind you, I'm not trying to excuse things that happened back then, or saying they should be kept in modern times, I'm just saying it didn't affect me personally because I understand the social context of the time it was made in.

Whenever you watch something made over 20-30 years ago, you do need to keep in mind, "this was made back then, social media wasn't a thing and people could get away with a lot, expect it to be incredibly sexist, racist, homophobic and [insert 'ist here] at times."

I do not, however, think that these should be kept around because they were already a thing back then.
All the jokes in Super about, "Oh, Bulma is old and her boobs are saggy and nobody loves her anymore." Cringed the hell out of me.
The same way #18 is largely portrayed as a housewife and a non-fighter, with the excuse of, "You're stronger than me, so... You watch over our kid (????)"
Likewise, if GT is ever given a second chance, I would like whoever came up with the idea of sexualizing Pan to be far, far, far, far removed from any important position whatsoever, preferably fired and seeking help.

This is pretty much where I stand. "It was made in the 80s" isn't an excuse as much as it's an explanation for why that material is even there in the first place. It's a reflection of the time it was made it, that doesn't make it okay, but you either accept it (while hopefully acknowledging why it should have never been there in the first place) and move on or you don't.

And while there's definitely still issues with the modern material (the aforementioned bit with 18 you pointed out, the Roshi stuff that got the series pulled temporarily in Argentina, fatphobic and sexist jokes about women losing their appeal as they get older) it's at least showing it's getting better. Toriyama now seems to be able to draw black people without looking like his entire reference was old racist Warner Bros cartoons, Whis, Kale, and Caulifa are leaps and bounds better gay rep than Blue and Otokosuki. Kale and Caulifa and even Ribrianne are welcomed additions to a series that seemed allergic to female fighters unless they retired and became housewives.

I don't remember DBS having fatphobic jokes, but I do remember DBS Ribrianne making fun of Kuririn lack or nose and being bold.
Sexist jokes I remember, especially Master Roshi getting away with it. Goku even encouraged Master Roshi to do his things to a girl.
Then Master Roshi method of "training" with Puar was really dumb.
There is also what happened in the ToP a girl using a looks to tempt Master Roshi, then Master Roshi going overboard.

[MasenkoHA]

[

I don't remember DBS having fatphobic jokes, but I do remember DBS Ribrianne making fun of Kuririn lack or nose and being bold.

The fatphobic joke I was referring to was in the manga when the girls combined into the bigger girl and it scared/disgusted Roshi.

People born without noses and society telling them they're disgusting, worthless, undeserving of love, lazy, etc isn't really thing. This is what I mean when I'm begging some of you to stop with the false equivalences everytime something like this gets brought up.

[super michael]

[

I don't remember DBS having fatphobic jokes, but I do remember DBS Ribrianne making fun of Kuririn lack or nose and being bold.

The fatphobic joke I was referring to was in the manga when the girls combined into the bigger girl and it scared/disgusted Roshi.

People born without noses and society telling them they're disgusting, worthless, undeserving of love, lazy, etc isn't really thing. This is what I mean when I'm begging some of you to stop with the false equivalences everytime something like this gets brought up.

I remember now thanks.

In real life accident can happen, that can change the appearance of someone permanently.
Being born with extra or missing body part is possible, even if it is rare. Even one side of the body being bigger than the other side, causing body imbalance.

People does get made fun of due to how they look, which is not their fault at all. Even for speech problem such as stutter an example.


As for overweight that is a person choice. However I know very well the negative health affects it has.

[JulieYBM]

[

I don't remember DBS having fatphobic jokes, but I do remember DBS Ribrianne making fun of Kuririn lack or nose and being bold.

The fatphobic joke I was referring to was in the manga when the girls combined into the bigger girl and it scared/disgusted Roshi.

People born without noses and society telling them they're disgusting, worthless, undeserving of love, lazy, etc isn't really thing. This is what I mean when I'm begging some of you to stop with the false equivalences everytime something like this gets brought up.

This is to say nothing of how the Muten Roushi's digust is pretty obviously based on the idea that women exist for the sexual pleasure of men. It's this really exhausting objectification that is not only bad for, say, grown fans that have been with the series for *checks watch* twenty-five years, but also just sends the wrong message to kids.

Toyo-tarou, Toriyama, Uchida, whoever the fuck is currently in charge of V-JUMP: you are grown ass men with children, what the fuck is the matter with you that you're just uncritically parroting "eww, fat women are ugly and I can't beat off to them and I want you to knooooooow thhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttt" in your comic aimed at kids.

Or shit, at all.

[super michael]

True there was no need to make fun of the fat fusion in DBS Manga.

I checked chapter 57 and I don't see anything wrong with her looks. In my opinion she looks good and powerful.

[ABED]

Has anyone brought up the Yu Yu Hakusho live action show? I enjoyed it for what it was, but if that is an indication of what we could get with DB, then no thanks. It took 64 episodes and condensed it to 5. So much was cut out that much of the emotion is gone. It's all plot, plot, plot, but very little character and story.

[super michael]

Has anyone brought up the Yu Yu Hakusho live action show? I enjoyed it for what it was, but if that is an indication of what we could get with DB, then no thanks. It took 64 episodes and condensed it to 5. So much was cut out that much of the emotion is gone. It's all plot, plot, plot, but very little character and story.

I have to watch Yu Yu Hakusho live action show.

[DragonBallFoodie]

It's likely the One Piece Remake may be similar to Dragon Ball Kai, and anyway a remake is needed given that the show has lasted 25 years and 1000 episodes.

[super michael]

It's likely the One Piece Remake may be similar to Dragon Ball Kai, and anyway a remake is needed given that the show has lasted 25 years and 1000 episodes.

Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT they all finished, then many years later they decided to make Dragon Ball Kai.

One Piece is still getting new episode, it isn't over. that is what makes it different than Dragon Ball Kai. Couldn't they have waited until One Piece original anime finished.

Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai original got cancelled, then they made the remake after many years.

[AliTheZombie13]

Has anyone brought up the Yu Yu Hakusho live action show? I enjoyed it for what it was, but if that is an indication of what we could get with DB, then no thanks. It took 64 episodes and condensed it to 5. So much was cut out that much of the emotion is gone. It's all plot, plot, plot, but very little character and story.

That's usually the case with most live-action adaptations.
They take a whole-ass series of 300 episodes, and condense it into 10 at best.
Result is often terrible.

[JulieYBM]

The Yuu Yuu Hakusho live action series rolled with the punches a lot for the sake of trying to tell a unified, easily digestable single season story with as little money as it had, while also still depicting fan-favorite characters and interactions. I think the third episodes needed another twenty minutes or so of scenes for Genkai, but otherwise I think for a series created on a pack of chewed bubble gum and a tooth pick it comes together really well. Kurama's big fight in Episode #4 is easily one of my favorite live action fights in an action series in a long time.

[ABED]

I think it would take more than 20 minutes to establish Genkai and make her death matter.

This is my issue with the filler debate in general. It went beyond a term to denote material added to adaptations to now meaning anything that's not "on plot". Stories are more than plot points and even though DB's plots aren't complicated, so much will get lost with this sort of slapdash way of adapting a long stories.

The Ginyu Force could be considered by modern definitions "filler". If DB were adapted, I fear they would be excised, and it would be worse off for it.

[super michael]

I think it would take more than 20 minutes to establish Genkai and make her death matter.

This is my issue with the filler debate in general. It went beyond a term to denote material added to adaptations to now meaning anything that's not "on plot". Stories are more than plot points and even though DB's plots aren't complicated, so much will get lost with this sort of slapdash way of adapting a long stories.

The Ginyu Force could be considered by modern definitions "filler". If DB were adapted, I fear they would be excised, and it would be worse off for it.

I haven't read Yu Yu Hakusho manga, but I heard people say that the manga many things was off-screen in the The Three Kings chapters. The anime they showed a lot of things that wasn't in the manga.
Filler isn't always bad, sometimes filler can add depths to some characters and fight. It can even flesh out a character.

The only time filler is bad, is if they go overboard and it is just flash back over and over again, an example being Naruto Shippuden. Even when the manga was over, the anime was still with filler. Even when the movie of Naruto came out and then Boruto movie came out, the anime was still in filler.
Those who didn't read the manga, the movie would be spoiler for anime viewers at the time.

Dragon Ball we saw adventure that didn't happen in the manga. Characters that didn't do much in the manga, they did a lot more in the anime. An example the humans didn't do anything against Super Perfect Cell in the manga, while in the anime they tried to help Gohan.


The Ginyu Force beating Vegeta, was what allowed Vegeta to gain his zenkai to stand a chance against Freeza in his 1st form.
Captain Ginyu switching body with Goku, getting Goku body beaten up and then switching back with Goku, was what allowed his zenkai to be huge after getting healed. So I don't see how the Ginyu Force would be filler.

[ABED]

That's just plot stuff and not necessary to tell the story. Freeza doesn't have to be that overwhelmingly more powerful than any of his subordinates. The plot doesn't even need the Ginyu Force by that point. The good guys have the Dragon Balls at that point. The Ginyu Force mostly serves as one more roadblock. Plotwise, they are superfluous. And that isn't why the Ginyu Force rules. You get hung up on plot and lore. It's not the point. Why they rule is that they are fun. They are funny but also scary and create so many great memorable moments. And that fight against Reacoom is an all-timer.