Goku letting Vegeta go is a very touching scene

[AliTheZombie13]

Vegeta's personality didn't change. Remember, Vegeta was warned by Zarbon that Freeza had more than one form, and still Vegeta egged him on. There is precedent.

There is also precedent that the Cell Saga changes character personalities on the fly without clear justification.
Yamcha suddenly being revealed as a playboy cheater is one of the most "WHAT THE FUCK?!" moments in this franchise.
It's so absurd that the voice-actors themselves have complained to Toriyama about it.

Now, you can make fan explanations for such, you can tell me, "Oh, but that's coming from Trunks, who heard it from Bulma, and Bulma has precedent of being a liar and unfaithful, so maybe it makes sense in-universe."

But, the voice-actors complained, and Toriyama told Yamcha's voice actor, and I quote:

That was a shock. I often spoke with Hiromi Tsuru-san, who plays Bulma; both she and I thought Bulma and Yamcha would end up together. And for Vegeta, of all people! It really was a shock. So when I met with Toriyama-sensei, I complained, “Why did it have to be like this?!” Then Toriyama-sensei said, “Come on; Yamcha’s a cheater.” (laughs)

Toriyama himself could've said everything the fans theorize, but no, his response was just "Yamcha suddenly and inexplicably had a complete personality change!"

I wish I could see things your way, I wish I had enough attachment to this franchise that I could see Vegeta's sudden unpragmatic actions as some form of staying true to his character, but as it stands, given everything else I've seen from this franchise, and Toriyama's own statements about it, I just see it as bad writing.

As if the thing that matters the most to the audience or good writing is a well planned out plot.

It's okay to enjoy things that are poorly planned out.
But I'll have to disagree with you when you try to argue it's not poorly planned out at all.

[ABED]

It's okay to enjoy things that are poorly planned out.
But I'll have to disagree with you when you try to argue it's not poorly planned out at all.

We can't discuss this any further when that has never been my argument and you claim it as such. I'm baffled that you think I even implied it.

It's also okay to enjoy things that are made up on the fly. A writers method isn't important to whether the audience enjoys it. None of this behind the scenes stuff is relevant. there are poor writing decisions in DB, but I don't consider Goku's putting the world in trouble for the sake of a fight among them. I don't consider Vegeta being inconsistent in different contexts bad writing. I like the scene where Goku lets Vegeta go because it feels like Goku is making a purely emotional plea for the first time.

[AliTheZombie13]

But I'll have to disagree with you when you try to argue it's not poorly planned out at all.

We can't discuss this any further when that has never been my argument and you claim it as such.

Semantics, but okay.

[MasenkoHA]

People aren't always logical. We're EMOTIONAL beings. Why should we expect any different from fictional characters. Again, you keep claiming characters are stupid for the sake of the plot.

Vague warnings from a guy who just shown him to be stronger than Freeza, and telling him that there are beings even stronger than himself that would kill him in a few years.

With 3 years lead time, it wasn't "Hey these Artificial Humans are coming to kill you all tomorrow"

Vegeta made huge leaps in strength in a short amount of time, he was consistently getting overconfident. We saw him go from asking Gohan and Krillin's help to fight the Ginyu's to thinking he was strong enough to fight Freeza in his final form one on one. It's in character for Vegeta to think with proper notice he could surpass the threats that were coming to kill him.

Things like Trunks saying #19 and #20 are the ones who ravaged the future, only for Trunks to show up again few chapters later declaring that those are not the Cyborgs who ravaged his future, are a tell-tale sign that the quality of the story is suffering.

We know why it was changed. Former editor chided him for how stupid 19 and 20 looked and Toriyama took the feedback to heart. And thank God he did because the story is much stronger for casting 19 and 20 aside.

It's definitely a messy retcon (no wonder the anime just didn't have Trunks specify numbers) but it's really not a sign of the story quality suffering.

I'm a realist by nature, and Vegeta's whole personality change during the Cell arc baffles me.
"But human beings are inconsistent!" is not a good argument against inconsistent writing.

Vegeta's ambitions to be the strongest being in the universe was cemented from the first chapter we met him in. Nothing about that changed. He had his eyes on surpassing Freeza so it's not inconsistent for him to think with proper training he could surpass two beings more powerful than Freeza.

[ABED]

Goku did plea with his friends to not interfere against Piccolo but it didn't strike me as an emotional plea. He may not have been in control of the fight but he was sure he could win. The plea to let Vegeta go feels like him asking something for himself for the first time and on an emotional basis. I may be off on that, but not from what I recall.

[AliTheZombie13]

Here's the thing: I don't believe we should apply the same rules of reality to fiction. A character acting out of the way they acted before without the story explaining why they're acting as such, I consider to be bad.

For example, going back to topic: the Saiyan Saga, Goku was full-on with the idea of letting Gohan and Kuririn killing Vegeta. At the last moment, he begs Kuririn to spare him. Normally, this would be inconsistent with his actions prior, prior a few chapters, and prior everything we've seen before.

Before this moment, there had never been a single instance where Goku let a bad guy he couldn't beat run away without killing them. But Toriyama gave the justification for the character acting like that: Goku was being selfish, he knew he couldn't beat Vegeta, and he knew it was a risky decision letting Vegeta live, only so he could fight him later. That is good writing, and I have no problem with such. There is narrative justification for such and I can't complain about it.

However, Vegeta suddenly risking his own safety and choosing the unpragmatic choice of letting the Cyborgs live just to have a chance to fight them, when he's been shown before to prioritize his own well being above everything else, without the story giving me a clear reason why, or Goku choosing to spare extremely dangerous enemies like Freeza and the Ginyu Force, without the "they're strong enough and I want to fight them again, even though that's risky and selfish" justification, when he's been shown before to not do that, is sloppy.

The contexts are different, but they hit similar enough beats for me to draw comparison. You can argue that the danger of the Cyborgs is not imminent, but there is also something that contradicts that: The Boo Saga. In which Vegeta, despite being in the clear imminent danger of fighting an enemy he can't beat by himself, decides to break the Potara, twice. In the same vein, Goku complains about Vegeta breaking the Potara, only to break the Potara himself few chapters later, without clear narrative justification other than, "Because they're Saiyans, and Saiyans are stupid! "

Again, the contexts are different, but they hit similar enough beats.
Maybe I could swallow similar things that happen later, but I think Toriyama either didn't give me proper narrative justification, or the justification he gave me (Saiyans are stupid ) is weak and lazy.

[Koitsukai]

I don't find a contradiction or a problem with Geets being a dick vs the Ginyu Force and trying to get a good fight from Cell.
There's history between himself and the Freeza forces, they hated each other, shit, they destroyed his planet, they took his crown. So, no wonder he is not thinking twice to sucker punch them, whether he's stronger than them isn't the issue: he hates them, he enjoys making them suffer.
While Cell is a new guy, there's no particular bond between them, they are just rivals, he wasn't even defeated by Cell at the time he went all "yeah, go perfect". But when the time came, he sucker punched Cell during the beam clash.

About the cyborg threat, I don't think it was that out of character for any of the saiyans, I disagree with Mr. Fusion's take. Goku had just "mastered" SS, was disappointed that Freeza, the emperor of the universe, wasn't a challenge, and here comes an actual challenge... one that could be too much, but he has 3 years to improve himself. And Geets follows suit, even if he doesn't share the same sentiment, how is he going to say "no, Kakarotto, we should kill them now" when he's constantly trying to save face.
I see Goku's reaction as mine with football. Before the WC, I didn't want my NT to face France, I was shit scared of them, but after beating them in the final, I want to face them tomorrow. Goku's SS was my WC win, a breath of confidence and excitement.

Re: Vegeta on Earth. If Vegeta is freaking out about a saiyan that might be too powerful, then said saiyan could also be able to go ohzaru and fuck things up for him. Specially when there's another chibi saiyan around. I don't think his pragmatism on Earth was out of character or uncalled for.
And I can definitely understand Goku wanting to beat Vegeta fair and square. And I can also understand Vegeta needing to do the same, instead of just blowing up the planet from afar a week later. They share the same pride, but their mileages varies. Goku is selfish but believes he won't miss next time, and if the Namek arc is proof of anything, he wouldn't have.

I will concede that Goku's reaction vs Freeza is something that I still cannot completely understand. I have to fill in the blanks and pretend Goku expects Freeza to retreat, come back and give him a better fight. Like being able to sustain his FP for longer. But then the guy gets sliced in half because he can't let go, and well... I guess you'll never know how merciful you can be towards a murderer cut in half until you meet one.
For Goku, he seems to be willing to kill you in the midst of the fight, but when it's over, that desire is gone. Exceptions: Cell, but that could be explained after seeing what Freeza did, and Cell is Freeza.

This in no way is a testament for Toriyama's writing to be flawless, Kami knows I'd never advocate for that.

[ABED]

Here's the thing: I don't believe we should apply the same rules of reality to fiction. A character acting out of the way they acted before without the story explaining why they're acting as such, I consider to be bad.

The story doesn't need to do exposition to explain every inconsistent action. Good writing also allows for audiences to draw basic inferences. And just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.

[AliTheZombie13]

Here's the thing: I don't believe we should apply the same rules of reality to fiction. A character acting out of the way they acted before without the story explaining why they're acting as such, I consider to be bad.

The story doesn't need to do exposition to explain every inconsistent action. Good writing also allows for audiences to draw basic inferences. And just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.

True, but everyone's threshold for how much a character is acting OOC varies.
To me, Goku sparing people for no reason, particularly those he's already above of that present clear danger to his and his loved ones' lives, breaks my threshold, and Toriyama failed to explain properly why he acted like that.

Then again, I'm not everybody. And regardless of whether you consider it good or bad writing, as you said yourself: A story only needs to not be boring. And if Toriyama's intention with Goku's and Vegeta's actions was to make them extremely frustrating to root for, boy, did he suceed in my eyes.

[ABED]

Here's the thing: I don't believe we should apply the same rules of reality to fiction. A character acting out of the way they acted before without the story explaining why they're acting as such, I consider to be bad.

The story doesn't need to do exposition to explain every inconsistent action. Good writing also allows for audiences to draw basic inferences. And just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen.

True, but everyone's threshold for how much a character is acting OOC varies.
To me, Goku sparing people for no reason, particularly those he's already above of that present clear danger to his and his loved ones' lives, breaks my threshold, and Toriyama failed to explain properly why he acted like that.

Then again, I'm not everybody. And regardless of whether you consider it good or bad writing, as you said yourself: A story only needs to not be boring. And if Toriyama's intention with Goku's and Vegeta's actions was to make them extremely frustrating to root for, boy, did he suceed in my eyes.

Because that's how YOU would react. Toriyama doesn't need to explain why Goku reacts that way. We know why. He likes to fight. And as far as I can recall, this situation was unique - the threat was subdued but Goku didn't win the battle. In the other instances where Goku lost, the bad guy wasn't subdued. Goku had to find a way to beat them in a rematch (e.g., Piccolo and Tao Pai Pai). And Toriyama's explanation in this situation was Goku acting emotionally. He didn't give the a logical argument bc there is none. Your narrative justification is Goku is acting on emotion.

[MasenkoHA]

The contexts are different, but they hit similar enough beats for me to draw comparison. You can argue that the danger of the Cyborgs is not imminent, but there is also something that contradicts that: The Boo Saga. In which Vegeta, despite being in the clear imminent danger of fighting an enemy he can't beat by himself, decides to break the Potara, twice. In the same vein, Goku complains about Vegeta breaking the Potara, only to break the Potara himself few chapters later, without clear narrative justification other than, "Because they're Saiyans, and Saiyans are stupid! "

Again, the contexts are different, but they hit similar enough beats.
Maybe I could swallow similar things that happen later, but I think Toriyama either didn't give me proper narrative justification, or the justification he gave me (Saiyans are stupid ) is weak and lazy.

I mean, we know why Vegeta broke the earrings, Toriyama wrote himself into a corner with the whole "potara fusions are forever" bit and he knew damn well he couldn't have Goku and Vegeta fuse again and then come up with another contrived "external force defuses the permanent fusion" and also he wanted Goku to have a tough fight not have Vegetto stomp all over the pure Majin Boo.

If you want narrative justification they went inside Boo to free everyone. Vegeta would have known that Boo was going to get de-powered and be weaker than Gohan (clearly would have no way of knowing they would inadvertently awaken the more dangerous original Boo who would just blow the planet up) and Vegeta didn't want to fuse with Goku to begin with. It was a last second decision that Goku just threw in a Ohbtwthisisforeverthx" right after.

Not surprising after de-fusing Vegeta would make sure there was no temptation to fuse with Goku again, especially working under the assumption that Boo was about to be far weaker than he currently was.

[AliTheZombie13]

Because that's how YOU would react. Toriyama doesn't need to explain why Goku reacts that way. We know why. He likes to fight.

Not to the point where he knows innocent lives will be endangered.
Goku letting Freeza go and "live in shame" and his later calling Freeza out for everyone he's killed implies there is a certainty Goku knows Freeza will continue killing innocents, even if he doesn't challenge him directly.

[AliTheZombie13]

If you want narrative justification they went inside Boo to free everyone. Vegeta would have known that Boo was going to get de-powered and be weaker than Gohan (clearly would have no way of knowing they would inadvertently awaken the more dangerous original Boo who would just blow the planet up) and Vegeta didn't want to fuse with Goku to begin with. It was a last second decision that Goku just threw in a Ohbtwthisisforeverthx" right after.

Not surprising after de-fusing Vegeta would make sure there was no temptation to fuse with Goku again, especially working under the assumption that Boo was about to be far weaker than he currently was.

And then, this happens:


Mind you, my issue with the story is not specifically Vegeta not wanting to fuse, it's the story handing them several "free get-out-of-jail" cards, and then the main characters destroying each one of them with their own hands, "Because Saiyan!"

Sometimes, Toriyama doesn't know how to handle this well, making the characters' words and actions betray what's been said and done immediately before. Again: Goku complaining about Vegeta breaking the Potara. He clearly didn't care about going dirty against Boo, but now he cares, because.......?

[MasenkoHA]

If you want narrative justification they went inside Boo to free everyone. Vegeta would have known that Boo was going to get de-powered and be weaker than Gohan (clearly would have no way of knowing they would inadvertently awaken the more dangerous original Boo who would just blow the planet up) and Vegeta didn't want to fuse with Goku to begin with. It was a last second decision that Goku just threw in a Ohbtwthisisforeverthx" right after.

Not surprising after de-fusing Vegeta would make sure there was no temptation to fuse with Goku again, especially working under the assumption that Boo was about to be far weaker than he currently was.

And then, this happens:


Mind you, my issue with the story is not specifically Vegeta not wanting to fuse, it's the story handing them several "free get-out-of-jail" cards, and then the main characters destroying each one of them with their own hands, "Because Saiyan!"

Sometimes, Toriyama doesn't know how to handle this well, making the characters' words and actions betray what's been said and done immediately before. Again: Goku complaining about Vegeta breaking the Potara. He clearly didn't care about going dirty against Boo, but now he cares, because.......?

The characters can sense ki and have a good idea how strong their opponent is.

The anime doesn't help by outright calling pure Majin Boo the most powerful form of Boo instead of just the most dangerous, opening up a whole can of problematic worms, but I think it's clear he's actually much weaker than Super Boo. Goku wouldn't fight Boohan or Bootenks without fusing because he knew he couldn't win. He seemed to at least be able to gauge he was more on par with the original Boo, hence the retcon "Acktually I could have totally defeated the Fat Majin Boo as Super Saiyan 3 if I wanted to lol"

Still doesn't make it any less messy that Goku went from "why would you do that Vegeta?" to "We don't need no damn earrings" but there is at least internal logic in why Goku wouldn't fight Boohan or Bootenks on his own, but would fight Majin Boo Classic Mano a Mano.

This is totally hopeless vs I could maybe win


Doesn't change that the Boo arc is Toriyama at his most "very obviously writing by the seat of his pants"

[AliTheZombie13]

Doesn't change that the Boo arc is Toriyama at his most "very obviously writing by the seat of his pants"

I'd argue Cell was worse.
"I have a whole plan to find the Dragon Balls to locate Gero and... Never mind, I knew where he was all along!"

[Lukmendes]

I'd argue Cell was worse.
"I have a whole plan to find the Dragon Balls to locate Gero and... Never mind, I knew where he was all along!"

It's fucking hilarious how Bulma actually talks about tracking down Dr. Gero, only to later say she had no idea Gero was involved with Red Ribbon.

There's also subtle change of plans, like Kami saying Cell is "better" than 17 and 18 in 358, which suggests he's stronger, but then he turns out to be weaker, and Cell originally going back in time four years before, with Trunks even explicitly pointing out that the time machine went back one year before Trunks himself arrived, with it being suggested Cell is the reason for the changes in the timeline, only for Cell in 363 to later say he arrive three years ago and being just as surprised as anyone else with the timeline changes.

[Lukmendes]

Goku was wiping the floor with Piccolo Daimao to the point where he had to rely on cheap tactics - you say Goku only won because of Tien but um dawg...it was literally the opposite. Piccolo held Tien hostage and forced Goku to stand still while he injured his limbs. Tien being there was the only reason things got bad enough that Goku had to gamble everything on his last attack

Goku did mostly have the advantage, but I meant when King Piccolo used the attack that wiped the city, which Tien grabbed Goku so he can dodge without being hurt, and missing that attack may have been the reason why King Piccolo was too weak to kill Goku the second time it was used.

Kinda funny that Tien was used on both sides to give the other chracter a significant advantage now that I think of it lol.

On the other hand, Piccolo Jr. was a worthy opponent and of course the Kami factor.

Which I think works well enough, Goku doesn't want Piccolo dead because of Kami and that part is given more emphasis than having a rival, so in Piccolo's case in particular his selfishness of wanting a rival works better, even if I still have problems with it.

And Goku pretty thoroughly explains his reasons for sparing Vegeta - after thinking he hit his peak, Vegeta outclassed him to the point where he had to get another crack at him in a straight up fight because of drive for self-improvement. It wasn't just that Vegeta was a good fight - he was so much stronger that Goku realized he still had a long way to go. And then this escalation continues with Frieza until the fight is no longer worth the challenge. Yes, he wanted to kill Frieza out of rage, but that rage turned to pity as the fight went on. I don't find that contradictory or a convenient change.

Yeah I understand this angle of Goku being excited over finding someone so damn strong, but I think being excited to the point he wants to fight Vegeta again and begs Krillin to spare him is just too far, specially considering that against Tao Pai Pai and King Piccolo, when they outclassed him during the first fights, Goku wasn't thinking about how fun the battle was, them being so strong actually stressed him out, and I just find ridiculous the way Goku is overly forgiving of Vegeta.

Putting my two cents here again:
Vegeta's "sense of honor and pride, deciding to fight enemies he knows he can win" makes no sense.
Vegeta as a character was extremely pragmatic during the Saiyan and Namek arcs, be it against enemies he knew he could beat or not.

Biggest example I can find is him telling Nappa to kill everybody, because Goku's Battle Power of over 5.000 and everybody ganging up on them might prove to be an issue.

Here, we have the exact same situation of the Cell Saga: Vegeta is told somebody is coming who will potentially kill them. Unlike the Cyborgs, however, who are stated to be infinitely stronger than Freeza, who Vegeta was still scared of in the beginning of the arc, even if everybody combined their powers, Vegeta would still win if he used the Oozaru transformation, so he had no real reason to fear. And yet, he chooses the pragmatic approach, kill everybody before it becomes a problem, even if it's a problem he can handle.

Vegeta in the Saiyan and Namek arcs was smart, and I can't help but feel his character during Cell and Boo took a high dose of stupid pills for the sake of the plot.

I'd say it started in Namek itself, where Vegeta has a brief fight with Freeza in chaper 295, gets a bit tired from it while Freeza is unaffected, then tells Freeza to transform.

He still keeps some of the pragmatism, since he does say that him, Krillin and Gohan can defeat Freeza together (Even if they never do actually fight together...), so while he still had this dumbass moment in Namek, there was a suggestion of pragmatism, while in Namek he's just a dumbass.

And then, this happens:


Mind you, my issue with the story is not specifically Vegeta not wanting to fuse, it's the story handing them several "free get-out-of-jail" cards, and then the main characters destroying each one of them with their own hands, "Because Saiyan!"

Sometimes, Toriyama doesn't know how to handle this well, making the characters' words and actions betray what's been said and done immediately before. Again: Goku complaining about Vegeta breaking the Potara. He clearly didn't care about going dirty against Boo, but now he cares, because.......?

While I can understand why the characters wouldn't want to fuse again at least, after a while during the fight against kid Buu they went out of their way to avoid the better solutions.

When the Namekian dragon balls are gathered and everyone is resurrected, Goku wonders if they'll bring Gohan and Gotenks to fight, but Vegeta shoots that down.

After Genki Dama is suggested, Kaio says he can talk to everyone in the universe, Vegeta says they don't need that much and just Earth will be fine.

These things create a situation where kid Buu really isn't that threatening, and if you think about thing, things are really not as bad as they may look like.

If Goku, Vegeta and fat Buu were all killed, all they would need to do is wait for Shin to recover and teleport then to Kaioshin's planet, or just use Porunga's third wish to teleport them there, and even being dead wouldn't get in Goku's and Vegeta's way, since dead people can be in the Kaioshin's planet, so they could go back there to fight and Goku would be able to fight better to deal with kid Buu since he knows how to use SS3 better while dead.

So the characters went out of their way to avoid the better solutions, and because of this, Toriyama created this irony where kid Buu who's apparently the most dangerous DB villain, is ironically the one they had the most options to deal with, taking away all the tension, 'cause again, if you think about if, if the Genki Dama failed, and Goku got killed, the situation isn't as hopeless as the story wants us to believe...

The characters can sense ki and have a good idea how strong their opponent is.

The anime doesn't help by outright calling pure Majin Boo the most powerful form of Boo instead of just the most dangerous, opening up a whole can of problematic worms, but I think it's clear he's actually much weaker than Super Boo. Goku wouldn't fight Boohan or Bootenks without fusing because he knew he couldn't win. He seemed to at least be able to gauge he was more on par with the original Boo, hence the retcon "Acktually I could have totally defeated the Fat Majin Boo as Super Saiyan 3 if I wanted to lol"

Still doesn't make it any less messy that Goku went from "why would you do that Vegeta?" to "We don't need no damn earrings" but there is at least internal logic in why Goku wouldn't fight Boohan or Bootenks on his own, but would fight Majin Boo Classic Mano a Mano.

This is totally hopeless vs I could maybe win


Doesn't change that the Boo arc is Toriyama at his most "very obviously writing by the seat of his pants"

Worth pointing out that in chapter 506, even after freeing Piccolo, Goten, Trunks and Gohan, Goku still says that super Buu is stronger than either him or Vegeta, which makes the "I could've defeated fat Buu back then" an even more noticeable contradiction since Goku says it three chapters later.

[MasenkoHA]

Worth pointing out that in chapter 506, even after freeing Piccolo, Goten, Trunks and Gohan, Goku still says that super Buu is stronger than either him or Vegeta, which makes the "I could've defeated fat Buu back then" an even more noticeable contradiction since Goku says it three chapters later.

I don't really see a problem here, Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo and Pure Boo, so it's not an issue for Goku to be stronger than Fat Boo and on par with Pure Boo and weaker than Super Boo.

There's a good reason Gohan and the Saiyan Little League were taken out of the story, to justify Goku needing to save the day instead of Gohan or Gotenks wiping Majin Boo out in 5 seconds.

Yeah I understand this angle of Goku being excited over finding someone so damn strong, but I think being excited to the point he wants to fight Vegeta again and begs Krillin to spare him is just too far, specially considering that against Tao Pai Pai and King Piccolo, when they outclassed him during the first fights, Goku wasn't thinking about how fun the battle was, them being so strong actually stressed him out, and I just find ridiculous the way Goku is overly forgiving of Vegeta.

Again, he handed Tao and Piccolo Daimao their asses in rematches that happened relatively soon after their first fight. That is the key point you keep ignoring/dismissing.

It's not like Goku was all giddy and excited with his fight with Vegeta, he was just as serious and straight forward there as any of his previous battles. But when presented with a situation where Krillin was about to kill an opponent Goku couldn't defeat on his own Goku wanted a second chance.

You can't compare the scenarios because Goku wasn't put in a situation where Tao and Daimao were about to killed after Goku lost to them but before he could beat them in a rematch.

[Lukmendes]

I don't really see a problem here, Super Boo is stronger than Fat Boo and Pure Boo, so it's not an issue for Goku to be stronger than Fat Boo and on par with Pure Boo and weaker than Super Boo.

I dunno about that, super Buu just ate fat Buu, so their powers should be at around the same level before that anorexic Buu was spilled out, yet Goku talks like super Buu is the one so strong he doesn't want to fight him even after he lost most of the people he absorbed in one chapter, but fat Buu is so much weaker he thinks he could have handled it back then.

There's a good reason Gohan and the Saiyan Little League were taken out of the story, to justify Goku needing to save the day instead of Gohan or Gotenks wiping Majin Boo out in 5 seconds.

That works fine with kid Buu having killed everyone when he blew up the Earth, but once they're resurrected, it's a little silly to bother with Genki Dama, even sillier to act like things are hopeless if it doesn't work.

Again, he handed Tao and Piccolo Daimao their asses in rematches that happened relatively soon after their first fight. That is the key point you keep ignoring/dismissing.

It's not like Goku was all giddy and excited with his fight with Vegeta, he was just as serious and straight forward there as any of his previous battles. But when presented with a situation where Krillin was about to kill an opponent Goku couldn't defeat on his own Goku wanted a second chance.

You can't compare the scenarios because Goku wasn't put in a situation where Tao and Daimao were about to killed after Goku lost to them but before he could beat them in a rematch.

But, I pointed out that during the first match itself against Tao Pai Pai and king Piccolo Goku wasn't having fun at all, meanwhile, in chapters 228 and 229, Goku and the narration itself make it clear he's feeling excited when fighting Vegeta (Though as the fight kept going the fun was gone), even though just like with Tao Pai Pai and king Piccolo, Vegeta killed Goku's friends, but that was briefly forgotten during the Vegeta fight so Goku can feel excited when fighting someone super strong.

Like just him wanting to spare Vegeta was a questionable enough of a decision, and even if I were to see that as a "natural" decision for his character, there's more around his reactions during that fight compared to the way he reacted before that makes me think he got flanderized over the years, and like I said before, I see Goku as a character who got flanderized over the years, while you see his reactions to these situations make sense with his personality, and it's better to agree to disagree, because at this point our stances in this are clear and we're not convincing each other.

[Mireya]

The anime soundtrack made the scene way more brilliant like you said. I also got my attention to Vegeta, that even when Kuririn was about to kill him, he didn't beg for forgiveness.... He's one of the only villains who remained proud at the brink of his death. One thing that also ties nicely, tho doubtful Goku was thinking that, is that when recognizing Goku, Vegeta said it's as if he knew he (Vegeta) would learn to have a soul when Goku sparred him. So maybe Goku also saw some potential in changing for Vegeta... As if he weren't merely a blood killer.