Inclusivity towards women in Dragon Ball?

[Soppa Saia People]

Karen isn't a slur but it's prety undeniable misogynistic, and another good example of people covering up misogyny by dressing it up as White Women. There's a ton different terms for white people who fear anything outside their backyard, having one just for women and the context being a lot time, their hair being short, is just kinda gross.

And this is ignoring the fact that a lot of people who said it, were just saying it because a woman seemed vaguely "bitchy", and not really anything related to anything else.

[Dr. Casey]

I think Karen is probably an overused term. It's an archetype that exists and there's obviously plenty of situations where the term is valid, but I've seen too many cases where internet people dogpile on a woman and excessively demonize her over relatively mild and forgivable cases of losing emotional control, so 'Karen' often just seems to mean 'Haha let's dogpile someone and treat them as a one-dimensionally bad person for showing negative emotion in any context ever,' same way as 'White Knight' sometimes means 'Person who defends someone for any reason.' I'm not really comfortable with the idea of labeling someone as a bad person due to single isolated incidents of losing their poise and control in emotionally-charged situations (and since people are often excessively judgmental, particularly in 2010s/2020s internet discourse, not only is the 'Karen' label pulled out too quickly, it's also often treated synonymously with 'bad person').

[Cure Dragon 255]

Karen isn't a slur but it's prety undeniable misogynistic, and another good example of people covering up misogyny by dressing it up as White Women. There's a ton different terms for white people who fear anything outside their backyard, having one just for women and the context being a lot time, their hair being short, is just kinda gross.

And this is ignoring the fact that a lot of people who said it, were just saying it because a woman seemed vaguely "bitchy", and not really anything related to anything else.

I used to use Karen a lot but a dear and lovely friend is named Karen and I didnt want to use it anymore.

[MasenkoHA]

I think Karen had it's useful application when it was calling out middle age (usually white and middle class) women who call the cops on black kids for playing outside or yelled at the poor customer service worker over a company policy said worker has no control over.

But then the term got co-opted by misogynist who jusy throw the word Karen at any woman with an opinion or is just standing up for herself or others.

[Tian]

Let's agree that using given names as "despective" terms is really wrong.

Here, in Argentina, "El Braian" and "La Jenny" have been linked to low class people who live in slums or are deliquents.

I'm not really a fan of those terms. It makes you sound like an utter idiot.

[JulieYBM]

I think Karen had it's useful application when it was calling out middle age (usually white and middle class) women who call the cops on black kids for playing outside or yelled at the poor customer service worker over a company policy said worker has no control over.

But then the term got co-opted by misogynist who jusy throw the word Karen at any woman with an opinion or is just standing up for herself or others.

For the record, when I was working retail I once saw a white man call a black woman that I was helping a Karen and if I hadn't been so stunned I'd have probably told him to shut his racist ass up.

White misogynists are goddamned insane racist pieces of shit, y'all.

[DefinitiveDubs]

Yes, you and your publisher have responsibilities.

Furthermore, Tarantino also has responsibilities. He's a big name, wealthy and powerful director. He has a responsibility to the other artists he works with, the publishers of his work, and to the audiences influenced by his work.

This whole time, you've been talking about this supposed "boogeyman" people are afraid of if they make a piece of media lacking in diversity and saying nobody will ever call them out on it. But now you're acknowledging that the media you actually pay for, published by corporations, DOES get called out for it and rightfully so, but that the rules are different there.

Essentially, the message I'm getting is people are overreacting and that they have NOTHING to worry about by not being diverse in their stories...as long as their stories lead to no profit or success, are only made for art's sake, and are so obscure that they stay in a dark corner of the internet where no one will ever know. Wow, you got em there.

I mean... yeah.

Yeah, that's actually correct, yes. How much power and reach you have directly dictates and is directly proportional to how much responsibility you have. Just like a little kid on the playground has WAY less responsibility than a Senator or President does.

When you're writing fanfiction online, you're the media equivalent of a kid on the playground: when you're head of a bigtime publishing or film production giant, you are now the media equivalent of a Senator or President.

Almost like "more power = more responsibility" is a super basic, elementary moral lesson that's meant to be understood by even small, small children.

Fuck, wasn't there some famous quote about "With great power comes great responsibility" that some small, obscure indie comic said once? Or am I misremembering that?

You mean the quote intended for the actually powerful, IE police, politicians, parents with their kids, superheroes, etc? Not random everyday people just trying to get by? This isn't black or white where suddenly a line gets crossed and you suddenly need to start trying to change the world.

Also, maybe we'd come to an understanding if you weren't such a passive-aggressive douche to anyone who even thinks about being even slightly hesitant to accept your ideas without any second thought or debate. This is the biggest issue with this kind of topic: by default, you automatically label anyone who starts asking questions to be an utterly despicable human being who deserves utter contempt, even if that person could easily be an ally with the right persuasion. It's like you WANT a second Civil War, just so you have an excuse to kill TERFs in the streets.

[Soppa Saia People]

I mean, I don't think anyone here would ever say they were kill TERFS in the streets, that's a bit much, but TERFS and other Transphobes do perpetrate a society that, has a lot of violence directed towards Trans People. I am trans myself, and I long since have been the victim of sexual and phsyical violence, and a good part of that was related to my gender.

TERFS and Transphobes can get laws passed that makes it impossible for Trans people to get proper help, the most Trans people in return can do is activism for their cause, or have isolated incidents of hate towards Transphobe, and Trans people are much lower on the totem pole then where most Transphobes tend to be.

[Kid Buu]

I'm with this. I'm not against diversity but Dragon Ball has historically handled it in such a bigoted way that I dread it happening with any future characters.

Well, for what little it might be worth, in the Super Hero movie we seem to have gotten a non-racist-caricature black character in the form of Pan's kindergarten teacher:


Is this indicative of Toriyama getting better, editorial suggestion, corporate mandate, or something else entirely? Who knows!

Yeah, that's a fair point.

I'm sorry, I thought it was a general consensus here that most anime characters has a problem with "white characteristics"? There have been a lot of articles written about how anime favors "fair skin". But yes, you are right. Most of the leading characters in Dragon Ball are...Chinese? Non-descript Asian? I'll edit it to look less bad.

Honestly most anime I've seen I don't see it. Even in DBZ - Yamcha, Krillin and Tenshinhan all look East Asian to me.

[MasenkoHA]

You mean the quote intended for the actually powerful, IE police, politicians, parents with their kids, superheroes, etc? Not random everyday people just trying to get by? This isn't black or white where suddenly a line gets crossed and you suddenly need to start trying to change the world.

I mean....yeah that's why Julie and Kunzait made the distinction between the work of a singular person and and a work controlled by a corporation. Commercial art is almost always collaborative.

There's also a huge difference between a work of fiction not checking off some diversity list you seem worried about and a work of fiction doing a terrible job representing oppressed characters.

The Harry Potter series doesn't get shat on for having a largely white cast of characters where all the main characters are white it gets shat on for the weird undercurrent of antisemitism with the goblins, naming the one Asian character "Cho Chang", it's bizarre need to justify slavery, homophobic subtext with how it approaches Werewolfism, Rowling announcing a major character was gay only after the series was over but avoiding it when presented with a chance to make it text in a spin off film and the general fatphobia, and Rowling's internalized misogyny presenting with "not like other girls"

And Rowling being a loud terf.


And all this could have been avoided if Rowling didn't have her head up her own ass.

[Hellspawn28]

JK Rowling is easily one of the worst living fictional authors living right now IMO. You would have more fun reading Battlefield Earth than anything HP related. I don't get why would anyone defend her so badly?

[ABED]

Yeah, that's actually correct, yes. How much power and reach you have directly dictates and is directly proportional to how much responsibility you have. Just like a little kid on the playground has WAY less responsibility than a Senator or President does.

When you're writing fanfiction online, you're the media equivalent of a kid on the playground: when you're head of a bigtime publishing or film production giant, you are now the media equivalent of a Senator or President.

It's not like that at all. If someone becomes president, they chose that and the responsibilities that come with it. If an author becomes popular, that's not necessarily of their choosing. It's a possible consequence of putting their work out their for public consumption, but it in no way creates any further obligation on their part. This is a false equivalency.

Any successful artist that attains "power" has one responsibility to the audience - don't abuse your power.

[Mireya]

Karen isn't a slur but it's prety undeniable misogynistic, and another good example of people covering up misogyny by dressing it up as White Women. There's a ton different terms for white people who fear anything outside their backyard, having one just for women and the context being a lot time, their hair being short, is just kinda gross.

And this is ignoring the fact that a lot of people who said it, were just saying it because a woman seemed vaguely "bitchy", and not really anything related to anything else.

It's also bad because lots of videos with Karens are aged women that can well be in the autistic spectrum... Or some serious disorders, which may make them act like that without reflection for their actions --- so they bash the woman as Karen without understanding why they act that way, or if they're (many are kinda perceptible) bears of a neurological difference... When you make fun of women who struggle to understand things a person without that disfunction would easily get, like social cues, it's simply a real lack of empathy.

[Soppa Saia People]

already said the term Karen is misogynistic, and that I don't like it. TERF is gender neutral as well, though primarily used with women, so I don't see the relevance too what I said.

[Mireya]

I was actually agreeing that the term Karen is badly used by people over the internet, adding another issue I found relevant too...

[Soppa Saia People]

Oh, yeah, I'm stupid, I thought you were quoting my most recent post, I am sorry, didn't read right.

[sebubibinman]

Yeah no I dont think so. Au Revoir!

Hey, Cure. You were supposed to sign back in as julie before replying. How's the Dr. Slump discord doing, btw?

[Cure Dragon 255]

I am not Julie. I AM A MAN1!!!!!!1111ONELOL


I like Julie but I am not her. And btw I am a guy. I just wanted to try out the meme.

[Mireya]

Oh, yeah, I'm stupid, I thought you were quoting my most recent post, I am sorry, didn't read right.

Nah that's okay haha.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah no I dont think so. Au Revoir!

Hey, Cure. You were supposed to sign back in as julie before replying. How's the Dr. Slump discord doing, btw?

This is not funny. Furthermore, any insinuation that I am a man (i.e. Cure) is really insulting. I am a woman, and I will be referred to as such.