New worldwide releases of the anime: Super or Kai?

[Tian]

Let's suppose that in a country that never aired the Dragon Ball franchise before (for example, Georgia), a TV station is offered to choose between Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Kai.

Of course, premiering one out of the two before the another have both its pros and cons:

Dragon Ball Kai

PROS
- Fast-paced and summarized version of the Dragon Ball Z history.
- Ideal for audiences to get introduced to the franchise.

CONS
- Some people may see it as outdated or too old (except for the opening and ending animation)
- There's the possibility that the edited version aired on Nicktoons in the U.S. might be the one offered.

Dragon Ball Super

PROS
- The most recent Dragon Ball anime series until Daima is premiered.
- Ideal to stay up to date with other countries' releases.

CONS
- Not many TV stations would want to license all its 131 episodes.
- Needs a previous release to give some context.

In this case, which one out of the two do you guys think would be the best option for the TV station to premiere?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Kai all the way. Super is not a good introduction to the franchise because the very first episode assumes the viewer saw the fight with Boo and is familiar with all the characters and their stories up to that point. Kai may condense the 153 episodes of original Dragon Ball into a brief recap, but at least from the get-go the viewer is aware of the series roots, which is very far removed from the point Super begins at.

I don't think any countries airing the Nicktoons cut of Kai would be a con. It's a very well edited TV-safe version of the show thanks to the wonderful video editing team at Ocean Studios. If anything I'd say Funimation's TV edit for Super is not ideal, its full of awkward cuts and swears not being left in.

Any country that airs the series for the first time and goes for Kai would also likely see good ratings with Kai (remember The Final Chapters was created because of demand from the international market for more episodes of Kai), which would lead to them getting a dub of Super and later instalments, so they could still keep up with other territories releases easily enough.

[Tian]

Kai all the way. Super is not a good introduction to the franchise because the very first episode assumes the viewer saw the fight with Boo and is familiar with all the characters and their stories up to that point. Kai may condense the 153 episodes of original Dragon Ball into a brief recap, but at least from the get-go the viewer is aware of the series roots, which is very far removed from the point Super begins at.

I think that Kai is the appropiate option too but some networks tend to overlook it and go for Super, since that's the "hottest" option.

Which, unfortunately, is one of the causes why the Ocean dub of Kai is taking too long to air in the territories where it was meant to be premiered.

I don't think any countries airing the Nicktoons cut of Kai would be a con. It's a very well edited TV-safe version of the show thanks to the wonderful video editing team at Ocean Studios. If anything I'd say Funimation's TV edit for Super is not ideal, its full of awkward cuts and swears not being left in.

For the stations, I agree it wouldn't be too much of a con. In fact, it would be a blessing for them since they'll have an edited version that may fit with their standards and practices department.

For the potential fans, they're screwed though. They may get introduced to the series... through an edited version and not the original uncut one.

Now, I may sound a little biased with the following, but the "Nicktoons Kai" cut had some weird edits that could create confusion in potential fans like in the scenes where Krillin's being impaled by Freeza's horns or Freeza's being sliced up in half.

As someone who have been watching the series since the age of 5, I already knew what was happening there but I've been reading comments from people who grew up watching that edited version Kai that didn't understand what the hell what was going on till they watched the original Z version or uncut Kai. That kinda sucks.

Any country that airs the series for the first time and goes for Kai would also likely see good ratings with Kai (remember The Final Chapters was created because of demand from the international market for more episodes of Kai), which would lead to them getting a dub of Super and later instalments, so they could still keep up with other territories releases easily enough.

That's why I think that Kai is the most "viable" animated installment of the franchise in terms of distribution. It's perfect for testing waters in territories where the franchise is still unknown.

[MasenkoHA]

Super on account of Kai being terrible.

Many people started at the Saiyan saga or the Cell saga (hell I didn't really get into it until near the end of the Namek saga) and seem to follow it just fine. Dragon Ball isn't exactly The Sopranos or Game of Thrones.

I also think this forum underestimates how many kids probably did watch Dragon Ball Super without prior knowledge of previous shows (beyond pop culture osmosis of Z)

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I think that Kai is the appropiate option too but some networks tend to overlook it and go for Super, since that's the "hottest" option.

Which, unfortunately, is one of the causes why the Ocean dub of Kai is taking too long to air in the territories where it was meant to be premiered.

Super isn't really hot anymore as its nearly a decade old. Hotter than Kai? Sure, but it will likely be superseded by whatever the next long running series is. For that reason I think now is an ideal time for networks to go for Kai, it will give them a chance to catch up and have plenty of pre-Daima Dragon Ball content dubbed.

Aside from Canada, which rarely airs anime I think Finland would be an ideal place for Ocean Kai to air. They haven't had any Dragon Ball content since Z finished its run on SubTV in 2006, and that channel ran the Westwood dub.

For the potential fans, they're screwed though. They may get introduced to the series... through an edited version and not the original uncut one.

True, but the fans who love the series enough will be inclined to check out the uncut version. Most of us here were introduced to the series through an edited dub, and many of us lived through a time where the uncut version wasn't available legally (the UK and Ireland had no home releases of the series until 2012 and in the 90s Funimation only released edited VHS and DVDs with the exception of the Pioneer movies). Nowadays with the internet at everyone's fingertips that's not the case, and the series can be found uncut quite easily.

[Tian]

Super isn't really hot anymore as its nearly a decade old. Hotter than Kai? Sure, but it will likely be superseded by whatever the next long running series is. For that reason I think now is an ideal time for networks to go for Kai, it will give them a chance to catch up and have plenty of pre-Daima Dragon Ball content dubbed.

It would be nice if networks care enough to respect the franchise chronologically like both of us want to but sadly, networks always go for the thing that sells more today.

And Super had and still has a lot of merchandise deals throughout Europe (excluding some territories, of course)

Aside from Canada, which rarely airs anime I think Finland would be an ideal place for Ocean Kai to air. They haven't had any Dragon Ball content since Z finished its run on SubTV in 2006, and that channel ran the Westwood dub.

I have thought Netherlands as an option but they are likely to be using it as a source of a Dutch dub, since they dub things more often than they did in the early 00s, when the Ocean / Westwood and Blue Water dubs aired there with subs.

I sometimes wonder how many territories, besides Canada and United Kingdom, were Ocean planning to release the Kai dub. I know they may not be many but I'm interested to know if they kept connections with territories like Finland and Netherlands.

True, but the fans who love the series enough will be inclined to check out the uncut version. Most of us here were introduced to the series through an edited dub, and many of us lived through a time where the uncut version wasn't available legally (the UK and Ireland had no home releases of the series until 2012 and in the 90s Funimation only released edited VHS and DVDs with the exception of the Pioneer movies). Nowadays with the internet at everyone's fingertips that's not the case, and the series can be found uncut quite easily.

Good point.

That's why I warned I might sound a little biased above, because I didn't grew up with a heavily edited dub of Dragon Ball like folks from other countries.

Although, I did grew up with heavily edited dub of Yu-Gi-Oh! (because the Latin Spanish dub was based on the 4Kids English dub) and yeah, it was shocking to know that what you watched on TV was way different from the fansubs you watched later.

[90sDBZ]

Kai 100%.

It's the portion if the story that has proven the most popular, and has stood the test of time.

Yes Kai has its issues like the redrawn scenes and limited Kikuchi score, but I don't think the average viewer would be put off by that.

I know Kai isn't the actual beginning of the story, but it at least gives a recap of DB on the first episode. Super only really recaps the final battle with Kid Buu.

Putting aside the popularity of Z vs Super, I honestly think Z is just plain better, and Kai is a faster paced/more digestible version of Z. For me it's a no brainer.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I have thought Netherlands as an option but they are likely to be using it as a source of a Dutch dub, since they dub things more often than they did in the early 00s, when the Ocean / Westwood and Blue Water dubs aired there with subs.

Dutch fans are well accustomed to English Dragon Ball, I'm not sure about Super Hero but I believe there was screenings for Funimation's dub of Broly, and it also got a home release by Periscoop Film, although there are probably some fans that would like to watch the series in their native tongue.

I heard a rumour one of the episodes with Goku turning Super Saiyan 3 was dubbed in Dutch as a test and nothing else. Don't know if there's any truth to it though.

I sometimes wonder how many territories, besides Canada and United Kingdom, were Ocean planning to release the Kai dub. I know they may not be many but I'm interested to know if they kept connections with territories like Finland and Netherlands.

Well Karl Willems said in a livestream recently that Ocean dub a lot of French cartoons nowadays, so my guess is they maintain a good business relationship with AB Groupe to this day. AB likely still had the Dragon Ball rights in most European countries back in 2010 when Ocean started pre-production on Kai, if they did Ocean probably planned to release it in several territories that aired their dubs before like the Netherlands (which you mentioned), Belgium (because they ran the Westwood dub up until the Cell arc) and maybe other countries that have English feeds. Obviously whatever was the plan for Ocean Kai sadly still hasn't worked out, although I hope with anime still growing in popularity there is still a chance it may one day be seen.

[Tian]

I heard a rumour one of the episodes with Goku turning Super Saiyan 3 was dubbed in Dutch as a test and nothing else. Don't know if there's any truth to it though.

It would have been weird for Yorin (the block that aired the Canadian dubs in Netherlands) to consider to switch from sub to dub in midst of the Buu Saga.

Pretty sure the fans wouldn't have reacted very well.

Well Karl Willems said in a livestream recently that Ocean dub a lot of French cartoons nowadays, so my guess is they maintain a good business relationship with AB Groupe to this day. AB likely still had the Dragon Ball rights in most European countries back in 2010 when Ocean started pre-production on Kai, if they did Ocean probably planned to release it in several territories that aired their dubs before like the Netherlands (which you mentioned), Belgium (because they ran the Westwood dub up until the Cell arc) and maybe other countries that have English feeds. Obviously whatever was the plan for Ocean Kai sadly still hasn't worked out, although I hope with anime still growing in popularity there is still a chance it may one day be seen.

That's good to know.

Thanks for the data about Belgium's airing. Didn't know they aired the Ocean dub as well. I thought they only aired the French dub there.

Regarding a TV airing, so far, our only hope for the Ocean dub of Kai airing on it will be in a territory that dubs only for kids stuff and then subs for everything else like Scandinavia (Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark)

In those countries, not all of the anime series are dubbed. More "mature" anime are usually subbed and as you mentioned, Finland will be our safest bet.

Norway could also be an option. I know our Norwegian fellow Kanzenshuuer sangofe has been trying with a group of friends to pitch Dragon Ball to a national TV station, NRK.

I'm not sure whether they are still trying to pitch it but in case they did, it wouldn't be a bad idea to suggest the Ocean Kai dub as some sort of alternative for the network if they don't care to dub it.

[sangofe]

Let's suppose that in a country that never aired the Dragon Ball franchise before (for example, Georgia), a TV station is offered to choose between Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Kai.

Of course, premiering one out of the two before the another have both its pros and cons:

Dragon Ball Kai

PROS
- Fast-paced and summarized version of the Dragon Ball Z history.
- Ideal for audiences to get introduced to the franchise.

CONS
- Some people may see it as outdated or too old (except for the opening and ending animation)
- There's the possibility that the edited version aired on Nicktoons in the U.S. might be the one offered.

Dragon Ball Super

PROS
- The most recent Dragon Ball anime series until Daima is premiered.
- Ideal to stay up to date with other countries' releases.

CONS
- Not many TV stations would want to license all its 131 episodes.
- Needs a previous release to give some context.

In this case, which one out of the two do you guys think would be the best option for the TV station to premiere?

None of those. I want the Dragon Ball anime released with a Norwegian dub here but I don't think it'll ever happen. The era of TV dubs is over. Besides, even 10 year old kids know how to read subtitles these days.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It would have been weird for Yorin (the block that aired the Canadian dubs in Netherlands) to consider to switch from sub to dub in midst of the Buu Saga.

I'd have to imagine if this mythical Dutch dubbed episode was recorded that it was just done to test the waters for how anime would sound in the language and went unaired. Plenty of fans from the Netherlands have reported seeing the English dubs on Yorin over the years and shared recordings, so I'm sure if a single episode was aired in Dutch we would have heard about it by now. The rumour apparently came from a dead forum so it would probably be hard to track down where it came from now.

Thanks for the data about Belgium's airing. Didn't know they aired the Ocean dub as well. I thought they only aired the French dub there.

No problem, I got that info from a native on the Toonzone forums, he said Kanaal 2 aired Dragon Ball Z with the Funimation and Ocean dubs between 2001 and 2003. And yes, I believe Club RTL ran the French dub in Belgium and maybe Luxembourg too.

Regarding a TV airing, so far, our only hope for the Ocean dub of Kai airing on it will be in a territory that dubs only for kids stuff and then subs for everything else like Scandinavia (Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark)

There's a new freeview kids linear channel in the UK called Moochi, they may be an option too if enough of us can make our voices heard. I'm still trying to find a way to contact them or their parent company Graft Ventures though.

[Basaku]

Do kids even notice the retro-look of (esp early) Z/Kai? Legit question, my nephews didn't (aged around 8-12) when Kai was on TV, or at least they didn't comment on it but that's obviously anecdotal. Curious if anyone ever heard kids talking about it and if it is an actuall issue or not. Maybe stuff like this (or less-than-stellar CGI in say comic book movies) ain't even noticeable until later in human developement

[Tian]

There's a new freeview kids linear channel in the UK called Moochi, they may be an option too if enough of us can make our voices heard. I'm still trying to find a way to contact them or their parent company Graft Ventures though.

Wish you good luck!

Do kids even notice the retro-look of (esp early) Z/Kai? Legit question, my nephews didn't (aged around 8-12) when Kai was on TV, or at least they didn't comment on it but that's obviously anecdotal. Curious if anyone ever heard kids talking about it and if it is an actuall issue or not. Maybe stuff like this (or less-than-stellar CGI in say comic book movies) ain't even noticeable until later in human developement

Well, kids don't really care about how old are the stuff they're watching, as long they enjoy them.

I can confirm your anecdote because my little brother has been watching Mazinger Z and the Indigo League season of Pokémon and never complained about them being too old or something like that.

However, there are some people (your typical dudes over 20) that complain that the show is too old or they premiered it too late. They may not be the main audience but they're old enough to trash talk the channel through forums.

[MasenkoHA]

Do kids even notice the retro-look of (esp early) Z/Kai? Legit question, my nephews didn't (aged around 8-12) when Kai was on TV, or at least they didn't comment on it but that's obviously anecdotal. Curious if anyone ever heard kids talking about it and if it is an actuall issue or not. Maybe stuff like this (or less-than-stellar CGI in say comic book movies) ain't even noticeable until later in human developement

I mean in the U.S, Canada, Australia and the UK kids were watching a show that was already about 10 years old by the time they got to see it in the late 90s and early 2000s

And around 2010 kids across the world where watching Kai despite it just being glorified truncated reruns of a 20 year old show.

And just strictly speaking from the U.S (not qualified to talk bout outside of that) back in the late 90s like 80-90 percent of Cartoon Networks output was old Looney Tunes and Hanna Babera cartoon reruns. The company didn't really get agressive with its own original content and imported anime until early 2000s and plenty of kids I know, including myself, had no problem watching Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, Scooby Doo, Yogi Bear, The Flintstones etc etc etc

[super michael]

Dragon Ball Kai would be the better option for the TV station to put on. It is far superior compared to DBS.

As for kids, they don't care if a cartoon or anime is old, since for them it is new. The only thing a kid cares is if they like it or not.
CN used to have cartoons and anime from different generations such as these:

The Flintstone = 1960
The Smurfs = 1981
Top Cat = 1961
Batman: The Animated Series = 1999
The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest = 1996
Dragon Ball Z = ???
Pokemon = ???
Beyblade = ???

There are more, but the list would get really long. I used to enjoy many cartoons that used to be on Cartoon Network. I enjoyed it when Beyblade, Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, Cubix, Bakugan, etc, got added to Cartoon Network.

Nowadays Cartoon Network is a shell of its former self. It doesn't have any top tier cartoon anymore, they don't have any anime. They don't have any DC super hero cartoon, except for TTG which is just terrible.

[Basaku]

Yeah when I was a kid I didn't give a damn whether it was the anime from the 70s/80s, pre-WWII Looney Toons or the modern (back in the 90s) stuff.

However, that was all within the SD format and the swap to HD was probably the biggest revolution in television image since the arrival of color and it's the HD that makes the distinction between older cartoons/shows and newer stuff more visible. That's why I've been wondering mostly whether it's noticeable to the kids nowadays

[MasenkoHA]

However, that was all within the SD format and the swap to HD was probably the biggest revolution in television image since the arrival of color and it's the HD that makes the distinction between older cartoons/shows and newer stuff more visible. That's why I've been wondering mostly whether it's noticeable to the kids nowadays

That's a good point. It's probably way more noticeable for kids these days when a show is old. I remember being absolutely dumbfounded when I went on IMDb in middle school and found out certain shows I watched as a kid were before my time

[Basaku]

However, that was all within the SD format and the swap to HD was probably the biggest revolution in television image since the arrival of color and it's the HD that makes the distinction between older cartoons/shows and newer stuff more visible. That's why I've been wondering mostly whether it's noticeable to the kids nowadays

That's a good point. It's probably way more noticeable for kids these days when a show is old. I remember being absolutely dumbfounded when I went on IMDb in middle school and found out certain shows I watched as a kid were before my time

Aye. The adult shows were more noticeable but mostly because of the cars & fashion, but the tech less so when it was all in the analog era so even the gadgets used maintain their designs and usability longer. I mean, it wasn't anything unusual to have the same phone/TV in a family house for 20 years or more...