Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[QuakingStar]

How much time has passed since Frieza 1-shot Goku and Vegeta until Goku goes to earth because he sensed Gohan's beast form? Anything official, or even patched together head-cannon?

It was 781 when Frieza did that, and it's 783 when Goku goes to Earth so it's been 2 years. Goku and Vegeta were on Earth 3 weeks prior to the beginning of the SH events.

[ssj3kakarot]

How much time has passed since Frieza 1-shot Goku and Vegeta until Goku goes to earth because he sensed Gohan's beast form? Anything official, or even patched together head-cannon?

It was 781 when Frieza did that, and it's 783 when Goku goes to Earth so it's been 2 years. Goku and Vegeta were on Earth 3 weeks prior to the beginning of the SH events.

When were they on earth 3 years prior to SH movie?

[ssj3kakarot]

How much time has passed since Frieza 1-shot Goku and Vegeta until Goku goes to earth because he sensed Gohan's beast form? Anything official, or even patched together head-cannon?

It was 781 when Frieza did that, and it's 783 when Goku goes to Earth so it's been 2 years. Goku and Vegeta were on Earth 3 weeks prior to the beginning of the SH events.

When were they on earth 3 years prior to SH movie?

Edit:

3 weeks prior

[DBZ Macky]

Going to make my first post here in three years, good to see some familiar faces are still here!
I'll be posting a tier list for the top 100 strongest characters in the series (imho), would appreciate if you guys can critique it or let me know if I missed someone.

---Peak Tier---
Super Shenron
Zeno
Grand Priest

---Angel Tier---
Cus
Awamo
Martinu
Cukatail
Korn
Vados
Whis
Cognac
Campari
Sour
Mojito
Marcarita

---We've Not Gone Past This in the Last 11 Years Tier---
Beerus (Manga)
Black Frieza
LSS Broly (DBS Super Hero)
MUI Goku (Energy Avatar)
UE Vegeta
Beast Gohan

---TUI Goku Tier---
Zombie Gas
Cell MAX
Granolah

---Moro Arc MUI Goku Tier---
Moro
Merus
SSB Gogeta (DBS Broly)

---ToP MUI Goku Tier---
Jiren
SSB Vegito (Future Trunks Arc)
Orange Piccolo
Gamma 2 (Final Attack)

---UI Goku/Anime Beerus Tier---
Quitela
Belmod
Champa
Geene
Iwne
Arack
Liquiir
Mosco
Helles
Rumsshi
Sidra

---Initial UI/SSBE Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Merged Zamasu
GoD Toppo
LSS Kefla
Gamma 1
Trunks (Sword of Hope)
Android 17 (Barrier of Hope)

---SSBKKx20 Goku Tier---
Hit (Time Cage)
Aniraza

---SSB Kaio-Ken Goku Tier---
Bergamo (w. 2x SSB Goku's Power)
Zirloin (Pretty Black Hole)
Dyspo (Super Max Speed Mode)
Saganbo

---SSB Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Arale (Shown Power)
SSR Goku Black
U10 Assassin (w. Sidra's Hakai)
Seven-Three
Koichiarator
Obuni
Pirina
Saonel
SSB Copy Vegeta
Future Zamasu
Daikaioshin (Prime)
Buu (Daikaioshin Possessed)
Kunshi

---SSG Goku/Vegeta Tier---
LSS2 Kale
Maji=Kayo

---SS3/SS2 Goku/Vegeta Tier---
SS2 Caulifla
SS2 Cabba
Damon
Gamisaras
OG Soldiers

---SS Goku/Vegeta ~ SSG Goku (BoG) Tier---
100% Frost
Android 18 (Enraged)
Giant Ribrianne
Katopesla (Ultimate Mode)
Monna (THICC Mode)
Kahseral
Brianne De Chateau (Ribrianne)
Rubalt
Auta Magetta
Namekian Savior
Sanka Ku (Kakunsa)
Rabanra (Kakunsa)
Zarbuto (Rozie)
Cocotte
Vuon
Tupper (Petrified)
Veku
Kettol
Su Roas (Rozie)
Narirama
Zoiray

---Base Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Murichim
Yuzun
Miza-Iwaza-Kikaza (Fusion)
Napapa
Lavender
Basil and so on...

[QuakingStar]

It was 781 when Frieza did that, and it's 783 when Goku goes to Earth so it's been 2 years. Goku and Vegeta were on Earth 3 weeks prior to the beginning of the SH events.

When were they on earth 3 years prior to SH movie?

Edit:

3 weeks prior

https://i.imgur.com/1u4DI0i.png Bulma saw Vegeta 3 weeks prior, when Piccolo asked about him.

[ZombieVito]

Going to make my first post here in three years, good to see some familiar faces are still here!
I'll be posting a tier list for the top 100 strongest characters in the series (imho), would appreciate if you guys can critique it or let me know if I missed someone.

---Peak Tier---
Super Shenron
Zeno
Grand Priest

---Angel Tier---
Cus
Awamo
Martinu
Cukatail
Korn
Vados
Whis
Cognac
Campari
Sour
Mojito
Marcarita

---We've Not Gone Past This in the Last 11 Years Tier---
Beerus (Manga)
Black Frieza
LSS Broly (DBS Super Hero)
MUI Goku (Energy Avatar)
UE Vegeta
Beast Gohan

---TUI Goku Tier---
Zombie Gas
Cell MAX
Granolah

---Moro Arc MUI Goku Tier---
Moro
Merus
SSB Gogeta (DBS Broly)

---ToP MUI Goku Tier---
Jiren
SSB Vegito (Future Trunks Arc)
Orange Piccolo
Gamma 2 (Final Attack)

---UI Goku/Anime Beerus Tier---
Quitela
Belmod
Champa
Geene
Iwne
Arack
Liquiir
Mosco
Helles
Rumsshi
Sidra

---Initial UI/SSBE Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Merged Zamasu
GoD Toppo
LSS Kefla
Gamma 1
Trunks (Sword of Hope)
Android 17 (Barrier of Hope)

---SSBKKx20 Goku Tier---
Hit (Time Cage)
Aniraza

---SSB Kaio-Ken Goku Tier---
Bergamo (w. 2x SSB Goku's Power)
Zirloin (Pretty Black Hole)
Dyspo (Super Max Speed Mode)
Saganbo

---SSB Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Arale (Shown Power)
SSR Goku Black
U10 Assassin (w. Sidra's Hakai)
Seven-Three
Koichiarator
Obuni
Pirina
Saonel
SSB Copy Vegeta
Future Zamasu
Daikaioshin (Prime)
Buu (Daikaioshin Possessed)
Kunshi

---SSG Goku/Vegeta Tier---
LSS2 Kale
Maji=Kayo

---SS3/SS2 Goku/Vegeta Tier---
SS2 Caulifla
SS2 Cabba
Damon
Gamisaras
OG Soldiers

---SS Goku/Vegeta ~ SSG Goku (BoG) Tier---
100% Frost
Android 18 (Enraged)
Giant Ribrianne
Katopesla (Ultimate Mode)
Monna (THICC Mode)
Kahseral
Brianne De Chateau (Ribrianne)
Rubalt
Auta Magetta
Namekian Savior
Sanka Ku (Kakunsa)
Rabanra (Kakunsa)
Zarbuto (Rozie)
Cocotte
Vuon
Tupper (Petrified)
Veku
Kettol
Su Roas (Rozie)
Narirama
Zoiray

---Base Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Murichim
Yuzun
Miza-Iwaza-Kikaza (Fusion)
Napapa
Lavender
Basil and so on...

1) I would add Infinite Zamasu just underneath Zeno and put Super Shenron equal to the later.
2) Gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta.
3) Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta.
4) Cell Max is stronger than Goku and Vegeta.
5) Gamma 2's attack should be one tier below Cell Max.
6) SSB Vegetto was on par with Fused Zamasu.
7) You have Gamma 1 very high. He's just SSB tier in SH so it should be SSBKK from the ToP.
8 ) Koichiarator should be stronger than Goku Black. It gave trouble to a much stronger Goku.
9) Future Zamasu is SS2 tier. Just like his present self.
10) Obuni shouldn't be that high. He lost to base Vegeta, stalemated with base Gohan and only gave the later trouble because of his feints.
11) Rubalt, Damon and Gamisaras are base tier since Piccolo is too in the ToP.

[Mr Baggins]

Going to make my first post here in three years, good to see some familiar faces are still here!
I'll be posting a tier list for the top 100 strongest characters in the series (imho), would appreciate if you guys can critique it or let me know if I missed someone.

Welcome back, buddy!

Thus far, FP Broly and the blue fusions are the only characters directly mentioned to be stronger than Beerus since their debut, so all three should rank above him. Green Broly doesn't really need the "DBS Super Hero" moniker IMO; that form is inaccessible and there's additionally no evidence or basis to assume he's grown that much stronger since the movie.

I wouldn't mix the TV and manga continuities. Or if you're going to mix them, it's best to use the manga as your main frame of reference since that's the more coherent version that wasn't written by a gazillion disorganized script writers. I don't think anyone of authority meant for future Zamasu to be god tier.

[QuakingStar]

Currently (Don't know where exactly to put incomplete UI Beerus really)

---UE Beerus Tier---
UE Beerus

---Beerus Tier---
SSB Gogeta ~ SSB Vegito
Beerus
Black Frieza ~ LSS Broly ~ Beast Gohan

---TUI Goku Tier---
Cell MAX
Zombie Gas
TUI Goku ~ UE Vegeta ~ Orange Piccolo
Granolah

--- MUI Goku Tier---
MUI Goku ~ Initial UE Vegeta
Moro
Merus
Gamma 2 (Final Attack)
Jiren Super Full Power

---UI Sign Goku Tier---
Jiren Full Power
SS Broly
UI Sign Goku

---SSBE Vegeta Tier---
SSBE Vegeta ~ Merged Zamasu

---SSB Kaio-Ken Goku Tier---
SSB Kaio-Ken Goku ~ True Golden Frieza

---SSB Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Golden Frieza
SSB Goku ~ SSB Vegeta
Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1 and 2
SSR Goku Black
Ultimate Piccolo
Seven-Three
LSS Kale
Hit
Android 17
Wrath State Broly

---SSG Goku/Vegeta Tier---
SS Kale
SSG Goku ~ SSG Vegeta

[Miracles]

Cheelai asked what are they going to do about Black Freeza? Right now, Goku, Vegeta and Broly are not the answer to Freeza's Black form. As Goku said he is "something else." Beerus isn't threatened and let's Goku know that when he finally surpasses him that he'll make him God of Destruction. Lol, The way Beerus throws his supremacy around with the casualness is funny.

[QuakingStar]

Cheelai asked what are they going to do about Black Freeza? Right now, Goku, Vegeta and Broly are not the answer to Freeza's Black form. As Goku said he is "something else." Beerus isn't threatened and let's Goku know that when he finally surpasses him that he'll make him God of Destruction. Lol, The way Beerus throws his supremacy around with the casualness is funny.

Yeah it's very clear Black Frieza is above Goku, Vegeta and Broly even 2 years later. I think it's highly likely and logical that Frieza continued to train for the 2 years after he one-shotted Goku and Vegeta so he would obviously have gotten even stronger then when he first revealed it, and it makes sense as he is supposed to have "learned his lesson" by now.

Whis implies when they were leaving Granolahs planet though, that he doesn't believe Frieza to be the strongest mortal in the Universe that's where its gets tricky, the immediate next arc is where Cell Max and Gohan Beast appear.

Now here is something that was pointed out to me... supposedly the manga makes it seem like there is no great time-skip of 2 years between Granolah Arcs end, and the Goten and Trunks mini Arc and SH Arc according to a few people I've talked to but I've seen no evidence to say the manga retconned the time difference.

[ZombieVito]

Currently (Don't know where exactly to put incomplete UI Beerus really)

---UE Beerus Tier---
UE Beerus

---Beerus Tier---
SSB Gogeta ~ SSB Vegito
Beerus
Black Frieza ~ LSS Broly ~ Beast Gohan

---TUI Goku Tier---
Cell MAX
Zombie Gas
TUI Goku ~ UE Vegeta ~ Orange Piccolo
Granolah

--- MUI Goku Tier---
MUI Goku ~ Initial UE Vegeta
Moro
Merus
Gamma 2 (Final Attack)
Jiren Super Full Power

---UI Sign Goku Tier---
Jiren Full Power
SS Broly
UI Sign Goku

---SSBE Vegeta Tier---
SSBE Vegeta ~ Merged Zamasu

---SSB Kaio-Ken Goku Tier---
SSB Kaio-Ken Goku ~ True Golden Frieza

---SSB Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Golden Frieza
SSB Goku ~ SSB Vegeta
Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1 and 2
SSR Goku Black
Ultimate Piccolo
Seven-Three
LSS Kale
Hit
Android 17
Wrath State Broly

---SSG Goku/Vegeta Tier---
SS Kale
SSG Goku ~ SSG Vegeta

1) You don't think Goku and Vegeta surpassed Gas in the 2-3 years timeframe between the arc and Super Hero?
2) What's True Golden Freeza?
3) Why is Kale so high? The best she did was held on against SSG Goku.

[Koitsukai]

Hopefully, this chapter will clear up where Gohan stands. To be on par with Black Freeza he'd need to oneshot Goku, although narratively that wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.

Also, on this matter, Toyo seems to be taking a page from a short fan-manga(DarkHanso, I think) that has Goku calming Broly down, and then Vegeta testing Gohan's new form. Though, I doubt Toyo will have them fight for as long as this artist did.

[SupremeKai25]

Going to make my first post here in three years, good to see some familiar faces are still here!
I'll be posting a tier list for the top 100 strongest characters in the series (imho), would appreciate if you guys can critique it or let me know if I missed someone.

---Peak Tier---
Super Shenron
Zeno
Grand Priest

I would place Infinite Zamasu here. He was granted Immortality by Super Shenron and it took Zeno himself to end him, no one else could. In terms of villain escalation, that's as far as it can possibly get.

[picc]

Have two years really passed since end of Granolah to now? That sounds strange.

[ZombieVito]

Have two years really passed since end of Granolah to now? That sounds strange.

Pan is already 3 years old in Super Hero. That puts the movie on Age 783.

Going to make my first post here in three years, good to see some familiar faces are still here!
I'll be posting a tier list for the top 100 strongest characters in the series (imho), would appreciate if you guys can critique it or let me know if I missed someone.

---Peak Tier---
Super Shenron
Zeno
Grand Priest

I would place Infinite Zamasu here. He was granted Immortality by Super Shenron and it took Zeno himself to end him, no one else could. In terms of villain escalation, that's as far as it can possibly get.

Thinking more about it, the ranking should be:

---Peak Tier---
Zeno
Super Shenron
Infinite Zamasu
Grand Priest

Zeno literally undid someone affected by a wish from Super Shenron. The best Super Shenron has done was bringing the erased universes back but I see that being no different from the other dragons bringing someone back to life. I'm sure if someone wished to him to kill Zeno, he wouldn't be able to.

[SupremeKai25]

Thinking more about it, the ranking should be:

---Peak Tier---
Zeno
Super Shenron
Infinite Zamasu
Grand Priest

Zeno literally undid someone affected by a wish from Super Shenron. The best Super Shenron has done was bringing the erased universes back but I see that being no different from the other dragons bringing someone back to life. I'm sure if someone wished to him to kill Zeno, he wouldn't be able to.

It's not definitive how Zeno and Super Shenron compare until more is revealed about Zalama. For instance, if Toriyama asspulls that Zalama is the true ruler or whatever, then you could argue that Super Shenron's magic is comparable or superior to Zeno's.

As it stands now, both Zeno and Super Shenron can affect each other magics. Zeno can erase someone protected by Super Shenron's magic, and Super Shenron can restore something that was erased by Zeno's magic.

Regardless, I lean more towards Zeno being superior, just because, RIGHT NOW, he is supposed to be the "King of Everything".

You are also correct on the placement of Zamasu. Pretty much nothing short of a Multiversal attack can end him, and the Grand Priest has absolutely NO Multiversal showing whatsoever. At best you can headcanon that the Grand Priest can rewind time to a point before Infinite Zamasu comes into existence, but he himself hasn't shown any feat comparable to Zeno.

Zeno > Super Shenron > Infinite Zamasu > Grand Priest.

[QuakingStar]

Currently (Don't know where exactly to put incomplete UI Beerus really)

---UE Beerus Tier---
UE Beerus

---Beerus Tier---
SSB Gogeta ~ SSB Vegito
Beerus
Black Frieza ~ LSS Broly ~ Beast Gohan

---TUI Goku Tier---
Cell MAX
Zombie Gas
TUI Goku ~ UE Vegeta ~ Orange Piccolo
Granolah

--- MUI Goku Tier---
MUI Goku ~ Initial UE Vegeta
Moro
Merus
Gamma 2 (Final Attack)
Jiren Super Full Power

---UI Sign Goku Tier---
Jiren Full Power
SS Broly
UI Sign Goku

---SSBE Vegeta Tier---
SSBE Vegeta ~ Merged Zamasu

---SSB Kaio-Ken Goku Tier---
SSB Kaio-Ken Goku ~ True Golden Frieza

---SSB Goku/Vegeta Tier---
Golden Frieza
SSB Goku ~ SSB Vegeta
Ultimate Gohan
Gamma 1 and 2
SSR Goku Black
Ultimate Piccolo
Seven-Three
LSS Kale
Hit
Android 17
Wrath State Broly

---SSG Goku/Vegeta Tier---
SS Kale
SSG Goku ~ SSG Vegeta

1) You don't think Goku and Vegeta surpassed Gas in the 2-3 years timeframe between the arc and Super Hero?
2) What's True Golden Freeza?
3) Why is Kale so high? The best she did was held on against SSG Goku.

For Goku and Vegeta I do think they got stronger, we just don't know how much. Vegeta implied they would not get big leaps anymore and should focus on technique and skill such as the "focus" ability that Jiren used. Zombie Gas was very comfortably owning them, so at the very best they might be AT his level currently... maybe.

In the manga True Golden Frieza is just Frieza using his real full power after he got stronger since he did mental training in Hell.

SS Kale was beating the dog shit out of Golden Frieza whether he was holding back or not. LSS Kale was landing hits that had Goku struggling to block them and he was shaking and had veins on his head as well and her last hit would have for sure broke his block and hit him. In the manga Kales base form was already stronger than SS Caulifla and SS Cabba as well.

SS Kale is easily SSG level. I used only manga here, some terms were taken from the anime though.

[Hugo Boss]

the Grand Priest has absolutely NO Multiversal showing whatsoever.

He erased Merus, who was located in another universe. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say this skill can reach any place in the multiverse.

[ZombieVito]

It's not definitive how Zeno and Super Shenron compare until more is revealed about Zalama. For instance, if Toriyama asspulls that Zalama is the true ruler or whatever, then you could argue that Super Shenron's magic is comparable or superior to Zeno's.

As it stands now, both Zeno and Super Shenron can affect each other magics. Zeno can erase someone protected by Super Shenron's magic, and Super Shenron can restore something that was erased by Zeno's magic.

Regardless, I lean more towards Zeno being superior, just because, RIGHT NOW, he is supposed to be the "King of Everything".

You are also correct on the placement of Zamasu. Pretty much nothing short of a Multiversal attack can end him, and the Grand Priest has absolutely NO Multiversal showing whatsoever. At best you can headcanon that the Grand Priest can rewind time to a point before Infinite Zamasu comes into existence, but he himself hasn't shown any feat comparable to Zeno.

Zeno > Super Shenron > Infinite Zamasu > Grand Priest.

Zeno can undo Super Shenron's magic but nothing suggests that Zeno's erasure works like that. Once you are erased, no magic is preventing you from coming back to life.

Also, it doesn't matter if someone can do a multiversal attack or not, if the attack can't erase immortals then it's useless against Infinite Zamasu. The strength or scale of the attack doesn't matter.

For Goku and Vegeta I do think they got stronger, we just don't know how much. Vegeta implied they would not get big leaps anymore and should focus on technique and skill such as the "focus" ability that Jiren used. Zombie Gas was very comfortably owning them, so at the very best they might be AT his level currently... maybe.

In the manga True Golden Frieza is just Frieza using his real full power after he got stronger since he did mental training in Hell.

SS Kale was beating the dog shit out of Golden Frieza whether he was holding back or not. LSS Kale was landing hits that had Goku struggling to block them and he was shaking and had veins on his head as well and her last hit would have for sure broke his block and hit him. In the manga Kales base form was already stronger than SS Caulifla and SS Cabba as well.

SS Kale is easily SSG level. I used only manga here, some terms were taken from the anime though.

So your list is mixing both mediums?

In any case, True Golden Freeza seems to be anime exclusive and he's only SSB tier not higher.

[SupremeKai25]

the Grand Priest has absolutely NO Multiversal showing whatsoever.

He erased Merus, who was located in another universe. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say this skill can reach any place in the multiverse.

Yes, it would be a massive stretch.

Erasing one person means that he can erase the entire Multiverse? Utterly ridiculous.

Also, it doesn't matter if someone can do a multiversal attack or not, if the attack can't erase immortals then it's useless against Infinite Zamasu. The strength or scale of the attack doesn't matter.

Yes it does matter, because Infinite Zamasu isn't a person, it's the whole Multiverse.