Where would you rank Super perfect cell power relative to SSJ2 Gohan?

[Mireya]

Power level crunch aside, is there any reason to think Cell is close to Gohan?

A) Because we're explicitly told he is, in the Daizenshuu quote I mentioned before, just to get that bit out of the way. But also...

B) Because in story-telling terms, that's... kind of the whole point of Cell's comeback. His final, freak-accident power-up here has put him up on Gohan's level and made him a serious threat again. The tables have turned, victory for the heroes looks out of reach, and it takes Gohan making a big, dramatic, "need to push past it and bring everything I've got" effort to win in the end.

I mean, after everything that'd already transpired during the Cell Games, with Cell making a grand total of three power-ups after Gohan went Super Saiyan 2, for him to somehow still be nowhere near Gohan in power and beaten by less than Gohan's best would be anticlimactic and... well, just incredibly lame.

I agree. I don't know if there's any meaning to the quote beyond what it says, but when Gohan's injured and Cell is about to launch the KMHMH, Gohan says something like "I just wish I had torn you apart", which some ppl take to mean Gohan implying it'd have happened weren't for his situation ... Or the argument the story needing Gohan to be that damaged was precisely to add that climax. Not that I agree though.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think so, because Gohan was likely already more than simply <50% amidst the clash, as according to VIZ, it's said Gohan hasn't put out his true power "yet" by Goku, which implies he was already in the process but not quite there yet. Cell seemed to be smiling and having a little fun by dragging the beam clash, while Gohan had his veins popping up. Even when closer to 100%, Cell had the advantage. It was when Cell felt momentarily distracted by Vegeta and Gohan put it all in, unlike Cell who decided, likely, to do such when he said "now it's over" right before Vegeta firing a blast at him, that Cell was decimated. It's also arguable that once regaining a little confidence by Goku's encouraging words, Gohan got over the <50% state, as according to Toriyama, one's state of mind can alter their power. So it's more complex than summing as "Cell didn't pulverize 50% Gohan while Gohan did so vs Cell" imo.

Cell came with a certain confidence. While villains have wrong confidence many times, it also many times happens in the heat of the battle. Cell had already tasted Gohan's power so there was no reason to come back if he didn't feel a legitimate chance of victory. He also didn't seem to assert his superiority in a so clear way, which many villains blinded by overconfidence do, he replies to Gohan's statement of revenge by "Things won't turn out as easily this time".

So while Gohan is ahead as Goku seems sure that in a beam clash, were Gohan to put forth FP he would do it, and is also the benchmark in the Boo saga... Cell seems definitely close to make it a not so sure and challenging battle. So I'd classify them as rivals with Gohan holding a slight edge.

I agree that Gohan wasn't at <50% in the beam struggle, but that doesn't narrow it down much. He may have gone from 40 to 60, and Cell was a 66.

Cell's confidence means bull. Don't bother with that. So what that he's not saying "I'm going to kill you with one finger"? He thought he could win and didn't. Just like it happened before his Zenkai and when he fought Super Vegeta.

Power level crunch aside, is there any reason to think Cell is close to Gohan?

A) Because we're explicitly told he is, in the Daizenshuu quote I mentioned before, just to get that bit out of the way. But also...

B) Because in story-telling terms, that's... kind of the whole point of Cell's comeback. His final, freak-accident power-up here has put him up on Gohan's level and made him a serious threat again. The tables have turned, victory for the heroes looks out of reach, and it takes Gohan making a big, dramatic, "need to push past it and bring everything I've got" effort to win in the end.

I mean, after everything that'd already transpired during the Cell Games, with Cell making a grand total of three power-ups after Gohan went Super Saiyan 2, for him to somehow still be nowhere near Gohan in power and beaten by less than Gohan's best would be anticlimactic and... well, just incredibly lame.

A) Not really. We're told he's the strongest, and in that moment Gohan had lost his fighting spirit. By the end of the day, Gohan was the true strongest. Saying "Cell > Gohan if Gohan isn't enraged" is really just a roundabout way of saying "Gohan > Cell". I've also seen the Daizenshuu entry translated as "his strongest".

B) I mean, that's basically what happened, isn't it? Gohan got a massive nerf. He lost a ton of power, then he got it all back and pulverized Cell.

[miguelnuva1]

Power level crunch aside, is there any reason to think Cell is close to Gohan?

I mean, after everything that'd already transpired during the Cell Games, with Cell making a grand total of three power-ups after Gohan went Super Saiyan 2, for him to somehow still be nowhere near Gohan in power and beaten by less than Gohan's best would be anticlimactic and... well, just incredibly lame.

Not really. I agree Cell is now close to Gohan but if he wasn't the entire DBZ is making Gohan out to be a monster. Sometimes a story can have the hero be that much stronger without it being lame. Gohan already struggles with Cell it wouldn't change that arc if we found out a FP Gohan would have still ripped Cell apart.

We also know in the Buu arc Gohan's power is respected and Cell is laughed out.

[FireFly]

The narrative would be absolutely bonkers if Cell were still only relative to roughly half of Gohan's full power. Cell openly states that he powered up to a level like Son Gohan, which no doubt refers to his newly attained SSJ2 form, and he even has an identical aura to match - lightning and all. To add to this, Gohan even openly states that Cell's power increase was larger than expected. This wouldn't be the case if his full power was enough to make mincemeat of the newly revived Cell. What we do know is that at some point in the Cell Game Gohan displayed a power above that of Cell, seeing as it's always only Gohan used as a benchmark for stronger SSJ2 tier characters such as Goku and post-Babidi charm Vegeta. Most likely this pinnacle was achieved when Gohan drew out all he had previously and then some to win the beam struggle. The thought that Cell is nearly twice as weak as Gohan and yet is stated to have increased in power far more than expected and "like Son Gohan" is absurd.

[TobyS]

The narrative would be absolutely bonkers if Cell were still only relative to roughly half of Gohan's full power. Cell openly states that he powered up to a level like Son Gohan, which no doubt refers to his newly attained SSJ2 form, and he even has an identical aura to match - lightning and all. To add to this, Gohan even openly states that Cell's power increase was larger than expected. This wouldn't be the case if his full power was enough to make mincemeat of the newly revived Cell. What we do know is that at some point in the Cell Game Gohan displayed a power above that of Cell, seeing as it's always only Gohan used as a benchmark for stronger SSJ2 tier characters such as Goku and post-Babidi charm Vegeta. Most likely this pinnacle was achieved when Gohan drew out all he had previously and then some to win the beam struggle. The thought that Cell is nearly twice as weak as Gohan and yet is stated to have increased in power far more than expected and "like Son Gohan" is absurd.

I mean it's somewhat obvious to me.

Gohan is still stronger, so Toriyama wounds gohan to even it up and make the outcome more ambiguous.
But Gohan hasn't lost as much as he thought!/And or he still has even more potential!, "go Gohan!" "Phew that was close!"
Gohan > Wounded Gohan at his limits > SPC > What Gohan thinks he was reduced down to after being injured > PC

[miguelnuva1]

Gohan all out> Gohan what was seen>/= SPC> wounded Gohan.

[Mireya]

Well, even if it's argued the reason Toriyama had Gohan losing so much power was to have a climatic ending, that's still resorting to out of universe reasoning and assuming what Toriyama intended. Maybe he shaped it that way to explore more the dynamics between Goku and Gohan and a collaborative last effort vs Cell (emotionally from Goku), and to have Vegeta facing the consequences of his actions and asking forgiveness, adding layers to the characters... It's not easy to simply assume what he wanted, it may very well be other things than a climatic ending. Besides, the Gohan who was already clashing with SPC in the KMHMH was no longer <50% Gohan, Goku stated right before Vegeta's distractive blast that Gohan has yet to show his FP, or something along the lines of "you aren't at full power yet" , or "still", but a word that clearly showcases a progression towards using FP. The fact Gohan thinks he's giving the best he can also means it wasn't simply his unmotivated, less than half power state anymore.

Cell was also laughing during most of the clash. It's arguable he didn't go all out in the "pushing force". When he decided to end it for all, as he said "farewell", it was when Vegeta distracted him. When Cell looked back, Gohan was unleashing everything with full pushing force and intention of erasing him for good... So the beam clash doesn't really show they're far apart in power. Goku is confident Gohan will win, which shows a 100% Gohan is still > Cell, sure... But they're still close, as mentioned above, Cell states he has powered up heavily like Son Gohan, has the SSJ2 traits and says things "won't go down as easily as before". Villain arrogance is one thing, but an assessment after the heat of the battle holds a different weight --- like Mecha Freeza saying he can "perhaps" defeat Goku alone. The assessment is after the battle, having already experienced the initial reality shock of being defeated --- and then the statement is worded in a way you can see doesn't convey arrogance, as they don't clearly lay out their chances as 100%... They take a more cautious approach.

[Yuli Ban]

Cell being hit by an attack by base vegeta would not have caused any real change to the fight; it's like saying a mosquito biting you caused you to lose the fight.

This is incorrect, when we saw Tien do something similar to Semi-Perfect Cell.

And if Vegeta's attack did nothing to Cell, then there would be no logical reason for the artist to have drawn it.

I suppose the issue isn't about power, per se, but willpower and dramatic tension. At least IRL. Vegeta's attack in real life was a device to show his atonement for his actions causing all this mess by delivering a decisive blow that actively helps the situation, hence his earlier apology to Gohan. Of course, in universe, it was just a sneak attack that caught Cell off guard when he couldn't have anticipated it. Not the first time a nore powerful being was actually affected by an exponentially weaker person's attack (my mind goes to Piccolo kicking away final form Freeza to buy Goku time)— and infamously definitely not the last.

[PowerLevelGuy]

SPC should be rivaling Gohan's SSJ2 power. He should be there behind him.

[p-hyvo]

Fullpower Gohan Is MUCH stronger than Cell. The fact that he's said to be able to easily dispose of dabura, who's stronger than Cell , should be enough

Fullpower Gohan>>dabura>cell

[Hugo Boss]

Goku doesn’t say Dabra is comparable to Cell at his strongest though. Judging from his fight against SS Gohan, Dabra is only within the range that Cell covered, difficult for a SS, manageable by a SS2. Likewise, Goku only says he's tougher than what he expected after seeing Dabra using magic.

[theherodjl]

Gohan(with his energy not quite completely refilled) was stalemating Dabura, more or less. Some conflicting answers aside on which SSJ form Gohan was in, I don't see Dabura as being superior to Perfect Cell, let alone SPC. His best attacks were magic in nature and they didn't even succeed in defeating a less-than-100% Gohan. Goku's statement on Dabura being equal to Cell may have just been the closest estimate to an enemy they all were aware of, as opposed to being exactly as strong as Cell.