Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 102 - Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

Formulaic and dull chapter for me.

Most if not all arcs in this manga start with these warm-up battles mostly to demonstrate and explain the current power-scale.
Which is fine, however, when the character whose power I want to know for plot and character reasons, Beerus, is ignored to avoid giving actual progression to the story; it bores me.

It was nice to see the kids team up, the Gotenks bit has overstayed it's welcome.
I welcome Gohan not being forgotten, still I was burned too many times to be invested in further development. Plus his Beast was pulled out of the ass to have the Cell 2.0 arc, which I didn't like one bit.

As for the predictions on the upcoming arc: the kids will be the villains or at least sub-villains. There's a reason Carmine it's up here, I expect him to manipulate the kids, providing a power up.

Probably a smaller arc, as a buffer for what might come after.

[VegettoEX]

If you don't like the term "filler", I invite you to name these post Chikara no Taikai sidestories (written by Toyotaro and Uchida) whatever you want.
I will not continue the topic, I'll simply wait for the next movie written by Toriyama in which he will once again ignore Black Frieza, Vegeta's Wagamama no Gokui and will show Goku seeing Son Gohan Beast for the first time, forcing Toyo to do an amnesiac and even more stupid Goku on his manga adaptation.

Once more folks, this is going way beyond the scope of "conversation about this one chapter of the manga" into a larger discussion. It's a good discussion! We should have it! (And be friendlier to each other about it!) This just isn't the exact right place for it.

The only thing I'll add to get a little bit of a final word here before requiring the conversation shift back: we haven't had a movie production that's lent itself to being able to acknowledge any of the manga stuff specifically... because they've all been written before later manga developments.* The Broly film couldn't acknowledge Moro or Granolla stuff, because it was written before they came out. Super Hero likewise was written a long ways back, and couldn't acknowledge things that hadn't come out yet.

(*To head this off at the pass: I don't say this as an "excuse," but simply as an explanation of reality.)

The closest example we HAVE seen is the Broly film showcasing Vegeta's regular Super Saiyan God form, which up until that point had been manga-only. That is one concrete showcase of Toriyama writing a script with manga material in mind, ignoring what the anime had or had not done/shown.

(Another concrete example of ignoring the anime is having Pan fly for "the first time" in Super Hero, despite there being an episode about that in the anime.)

Will this happen again? We have no idea! We don't know plans for the next film, when or if it might happen, and if it does what it might or might not include. It's irresponsible (and I'd say borderline embarrassing!) to make such bold proclamations about things you don't have direct insight into.

So let's carry on as good buds discussing cool things, and in the case of this thread... JUST Dragon Ball Super manga chapter 102!

And to that point... I've had a great time with the last couple chapters! They're super fun. I'm definitely over the failed Gotenks stuff myself, too... but I don't have a problem with, for example, the prior criticism I saw here of it being called "Goku vs. Gohan" and that only being the end of the chapter. Yeah, that's fine. I'm OK with that. I have fun with what I read. I'm not sitting here running the numbers of panel count vs. chapter title! That's not how I engage with this material.

[ZombieVito]

To much time is waste on Trunks and Goten this chapter. It's boring.

Next chapter looks to be worth it though.

[Yuji]

To much time is waste on Trunks and Goten this chapter. It's boring.

Next chapter looks to be worth it though.

I wouldn't hype it up. Based on Beerus' reaction shot, I'm expecting a page or two of a generic scuffle followed by Beerus/Whis interrupting them before they destroy the planet. Maybe the chapter will skip to the end of the fight when they're both tired/bloodied à la end of the GoD exhibition in the manga and replicate the stoppage there. I'd probably bet on the former rather than the latter though as to keep the engagement light and keep it unclear who's stronger so we have some room to work with to scale future antagonists and foes.

I very much doubt this fight will carry on for much longer but would love to be proven wrong.

[Thani]

I genuinely disliked this chapter.

Taking Carmine and Thug #10 to a trip to Beerus' Planet? Having Gohan fight Trunks and Goten beforehand and do nothing really interesting with that? Not to mention it had a way better fight choreography than Gohan vs Goku, which was as generic as it could get. I get that it's just the beginning of their spar, but damn... I do hope next chapter picks up the heat, but with Beerus as annoyed as he showed to be because of the damage to his planet, I really doubt it's gonna last too long.

Also I'm just gonna say it: Beerus acting unimpressed to absolutely everything he sees is getting really old. If we are to believe Toyotaro's plot progression, we have already soared so much above the level of Gods of Destruction it's not even funny, and yet Beerus is not even acknowledging it. Hell, he wanted a rival, didn't he? You have now a guy that freaking Belmod, a God of Destruction like Beerus, apparently would break his hand if he tried to punch him. And now there's at least, just in his universe alone, other five guys just as strong, if not stronger, than that.

Beerus should be at least excited to have this much potential rivals at the same point in time, like he WAS excited when facing SSG Goku. I really can't figure what Toyo is planning, quite frankly.

[FortuneSSJ]

I didn't like how Goten/trunks couldn't land a blow on Gohan and they keep reusing Fat Gotenks gag.
That's one of problems with modern Dragon Ball. they're use these gimmicks too much until it's not funny anymore.

I know Gohan was supposed to win and fight Goku next, but surely Goten/Trunks could have landed some hits.

It's also impressive how time passes and Toyotaro keeps filling his pages with needless panels. He will never lose that habit.
Boruto manga composition feels more DB than DBS manga ever was.

Anyway that aside, it was a cool chapter. As surprising as it is, it's the first time we have all Earth male saiyans sparing like this. I assume Vegeta will join next.

I like how he made Ultimate Gohan term canon.

There's something different about Toyotaro art in this chapter, but I can't say what exactly. I like it though.

I think Carmine/Number 15 being there and seeing all that is what will kick off the next plot. Now they khow these people exist and how much powerful they are. Time to bring Ultra Cell Max. Silver and green edition <3

Looking forward to next chapter. It's truly a shame we won't get this animated anytime soon.

[Jack Bz]

It's troubling that the pacing is feeling sluggish this early into an arc

[Cipher]

Just a note that this isn’t “early into an arc.” Per at least the official site when it posted the draft pages, it’s still the Super Hero arc epilogue.

[TKA]

Broly is quite... whelmed.

"Everyone has super saiyan now??"

We were all there once, Broly. We were all there once.

Also, this is straight up just Numbuh 4ku

Spoiler:

These images are identical lol.

Fun chapter. I like the red ribbon camera guy.

[super michael]

This was a great chapter I enjoyed the sparring match that Goten and Trunks had against Gohan. The three of them knows that training is important, to protect those that they care.
Goten and Trunks needs to get the hung of fusion, they still mess up though.

The sparring match with Gohan and Goku was great.

[Magnificent Ponta]

The scene-setting at the top of the Chapter is delightfully goofy - Goku just rounds everyone up in a car and Shunkan Idou-s them into a road trip to Beerus's. (Broly struggling with the Yoga Tree Pose when they get there is a good chuckle, too.) Beyond that, the chapter is a melange of more-or-less (sometimes less) amusing tidbits and neat little touches, but doesn't feel like an entirely coherent whole in itself.

I guess the likeliest avenue for plot progression is with all the Hey Mister Make Sure You're Filming This *Nudge Nudge Wink Wink* stuff, in which case I guess a straightforward escalation of the fight that draws in a variety of characters and abilities would ipso facto "progress" the plot, as it would give Red Ribbon all the data they need to go away and construct a formidable new foe (if that's where we're going with this) - though I don't necessarily relish the next several Chapters being 'Son Gohan vs. Son Goku, Part 2"; "Son Gohan vs. Vegeta", "Son Gohan vs. Vegeta Part 2", "Son Gohan vs. Broly" - etc..... Still, it would be cute if the underwhelming elements of Goten and Trunks's performance, and the Gotenks fusion screw-up, somehow got incorporated into the data as an exploitable Achilles Heel, rather than just being a re-tread of some gags we only got a few months ago. Or maybe the things the characters can't do (yet) will become relevant (again, like a successful fusion, or Broly finding a way to release his true power).

Or maybe none of that, and it's just an inconsequential epilogue with a few more semi-comical action chapters to it, wherein Red Ribbon's ambitions to try again get well and truly squelched by a glimpse of what they'd be up against. It'd be nice if the next Chapter gives a clearer steer for reader expectations.

[onefinegent]

I'm happy for this chapter, and seeing more Goten and Trunks is always a plus for me! this is also a really great case for why these two are not "warriors", and is an interesting case study of what happens when these two go up against an opponent thats on their level (or higher) and how little they know about battling and how much they rely on coolness and spectacle. my only thing thats negative that I have to say about this first half is that I'm tired of being teased teen gotenks, i do suspect that he's coming up soon though, I can feel it. (coping lvl: 100)

I'm excited for next month, I do hope that they really let this fight between goku and gohan breathe, I don't think we've gotten a good fight with both parties having fun since... ToP? maybe Moro was having a good time nomming planets, I can't remember.

I definitely think Broly is going to be going through the ritual for SSG, there's no reason why they wouldn't have 6 saiyans together like this. then I believe that the ritual will be offered to gohan/goten/trunks, who will either decline, they'll get cutoff by whatever the major threat of this arc will be (if there is one) or beerus will get angry about the amount of godly beings that are created right in front of him (this seems like the most plausible scenario).

overall, good chapter!

[goku the krump dancer]

I actually managed to get through this without a slight headache. The story actually feels like it could be going some where as of this moment just so along as we don’t get 4 more chapters of sparring.

Main take away : I think it’s interesting that at this point Beerus seemed somewhat disappointed that Goku’s only trick is Ultra Instinct, almost as if he expects him to be beyond it or further advanced in it at this point. Hmmm, wonder where that’s leading to.

[nineko]

This chapter isn't bad, but the pacing is still painful. I understand that they can't pull 45 pages on a weekly basis, but... some people aren't entirely wrong when they say that this almost feels like filler.

[TKA]

I didn't really care for this chapter otherwise. 50+ pages of pointless sparring does not a Toriyama-crafted DB make.

Toyo my boyo, get to the premise of the next arc or at least conclude the manga if there's no story left to tell. This is aimless and tacked on.

These are all good, unassailable points.

I enjoyed the chapter immensely, likely because I haven't read the manga in about a year. I skipped literally the entirety of the movie stuff. SuperHero was the weakest of the movies since 2013, so I definitely wasn't gonna sit through a retelling of it.

But even so, it's very odd that Toyotaro did fat Gotenks instead of old Gotenks. It's would essentially still be the same gag, but it would be fresher because it's the other failed fusion rather than the one that was all over the previous movie. Or, you know, he could come up with a whole new failed fusion design.

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I can't get over the fact that so much of this chapter talked about Gohan being ready to fight the next threat, keeping up with his training etc... but the manga already covered that. Unlike the anime rendition, Gohan in the manga said he'd been keeping up with his training when the ToP started. Maybe it was covered in the year of content that I skipped over, but it's so odd that Toyotaro made no attempt to justify Gohan being a weak shlub despite establishing for years that he'd been training offscreen.

Also, and this is more a meta critique than specific to this chapter... I have no respect for Gohan's growth. Goku and Vegeta spent a decade+ of material training to get to where they are right now, but Gohan just got angry once and caught up to them. In the original manga, there were moments where his anger made him strong, but they often resulted in him failing (Nappa, Frieza) despite being strong. Almost as if to say "anger isn't enough." Indeed, it wasn't until he trained with Goku that his anger could be channeled and directed. He still had to work for it.

"Beast Gohan" is emblematic of what Super is, really. It's just marketing. It's empty. I'd rather ignore it and Orange Piccolo lol.

[super michael]

It is good that Goten and Trunks are finally allowed to train and has the desire to train, so that they can protect those that they care.
In the anime Goten and Trunks were never allowed or welcomed to train at all. They were not allowed to train with Goku, Vegeta and Whis Planet.

Things like this is what makes the manga better than the anime.

[Mr Baggins]

It's chucklesome that just this morning I saw a guy on Twitter recreate the Goku vs. Gohan part from this chapter in Xenoverse 2, using Ultra Instinct and Beast from older DLC packs. The irony of that is palpable.

Notwithstanding Toyotaro's pretty good artwork, which he rightly deserves credit for, plotwise we're basically reading multiple monthly chapters of something that some guy can cobble together in five minutes on his PS5. That's how empty this is right now.

I mean, it's fine. These aren't the worst chapters I've read by a long shot. It's just amusing that peeps on the socials like to call this "cooking" while I'm just over here like "Bro, this is a pre-made microwave dinner."

I enjoyed the chapter immensely, likely because I haven't read the manga in about a year. I skipped literally the entirety of the movie stuff. SuperHero was the weakest of the movies since 2013, so I definitely wasn't gonna sit through a retelling of it.

That's fair. I actually think Toyotaro did a serviceable job adapting the movie, despite it sorta contradicting older material for Gohan and just generally being among the weakest of the Toriyama-helmed films IMO. But if this really is the "epilogue" to the Super Hero arc, it will have probably somewhat lowered my opinion of the adaptation as a whole. A real shame, given how good those prologue chapters were.

Also, it goes without saying that Toriyama had a remarkable talent for writing on the fly that Toyotaro distinctly lacks. If what we're seeing now is the result of T&T not having fully drafted the next story yet, I'd rather the manga go on hiatus than suffer as a longform series. Or maybe just end, lol.

I'm excited for next month, I do hope that they really let this fight between goku and gohan breathe

Frankly, I'd prefer to have some silly/weird Tori esque swerve that cuts the filler short and moves the narrative along in next month's chapter. I hope something like that happens instead.

[Zephyr]

Enjoyed the chapter for what it was. Not really anything narratively substantial here, but seeing the Saiyans hanging out at Beerus' planet and having a little fight club is nice.

Fat Gotenks should come around more often, train up, and develop his own unique style of fighting.

[SSGpotota]

Kinda boring chapter, tired of the fat Gotenks gag, but it was nice seeing them all in the same place having some fun. It's still wild to me that Broly is now canon and hanging out with the boys!
Also, we have 6 pure hearted saiyans all in one place... let's give SSG to everyone???

[super michael]

Enjoyed the chapter for what it was. Not really anything narratively substantial here, but seeing the Saiyans hanging out at Beerus' planet and having a little fight club is nice.

Fat Gotenks should come around more often, train up, and develop his own unique style of fighting.

Fat and Skinny Gotenks are failed fusion, for when Goten and Trunks does the fusion dance wrong. There is no perfect those forms.

It makes sense why they keep messing up, they did get rusty from not fusing in a long time.


The RRA are recording the fight, they can use that as data. They can even get everyone DNA on Beerus planet to create another powerful entity.