Unpopular DB opinions

[Scsigs]

Maybe it's because I haven't bothered to watch all of Z outside of the Buu Saga, but I don't mind how Kikuchi's score was placed in Kai. Even if it doesn't match the placements in Z, it's not like the score placements were bad. It was clearly a rushed job the audio engineers & producers in Japan did probably over the course of a few weeks so Toei could get new discs printed, air the last few episodes with the new music placements, & get them out to international distributers, but it's not bad. In fact, I kinda wish they'd used Kikuchi's music for the rest of Kai when they were putting together The Final Chapters just so it'd be consistent music-wise. While I understand them using Sumitomo as the composer since he was doing the newest movies & went on to do Super's music at the time, plus there were some cool things like the music he composed for Vegetto coming back in Super, I very much think it would've been better for them to go with Kikuchi's score, or maybe even new spins on his music done by Sumitomo mixed with some new things similar to what CC2 did for DBZ Kakarot.

[TheGreatness25]

Yeah, so I'm backing up all my DVDs and Blu-rays and despite everything, despite knowing about the grain and all that... the 30th anniversary set is still the most visually appealing to me. It's just so sharp and smooth compared to the fuzzy dark look of the Dragon Boxes. Even the Level sets don't look this appealing. I know that for preservation and context the Level sets and Dragon Boxes are considered superior to the 30th anniversary set, but aside from that, just in terms of how it looks to me on my TV, this 30th anniversary set is definitely the prettiest.

And I know this is a very unpopular opinion lol

I'm gonna be backing mine up too soon, but my god, the level of delusion with this. I can't watch the 30th anniversary remaster whatsoever without noticing all of the flaws of the aggressive DVNR & bad color correction. I would rather watch the Dragon Boxes any day of the week than those if I had the choice.

Um, okay. "Delusion"? Lol I shared an opinion. I'm sorry that you're so fixated on the issues that you know exist.

[MasenkoHA]

Yeah, so I'm backing up all my DVDs and Blu-rays and despite everything, despite knowing about the grain and all that... the 30th anniversary set is still the most visually appealing to me. It's just so sharp and smooth compared to the fuzzy dark look of the Dragon Boxes. Even the Level sets don't look this appealing. I know that for preservation and context the Level sets and Dragon Boxes are considered superior to the 30th anniversary set, but aside from that, just in terms of how it looks to me on my TV, this 30th anniversary set is definitely the prettiest.

And I know this is a very unpopular opinion lol

I'm gonna be backing mine up too soon, but my god, the level of delusion with this. I can't watch the 30th anniversary remaster whatsoever without noticing all of the flaws of the aggressive DVNR & bad color correction. I would rather watch the Dragon Boxes any day of the week than those if I had the choice.

One person's delusion, is another person's truth.


I mean, I think it's absolutely deluded to think Kikuchi Kai is anything other than a musical trainwreck (and it's not because I was used to Kikuchi Z, the switch to Kikuchi's music in the Android saga was my first exposure to his score since watching the '86 series on Toonami a decade prior and I thought it sounded terrible until I watched Z). But a lot of fans are perfectly fine with Kikuchi Kai.

Different strokes, for different folks, including what is the most aesthetically pleasing presentation of the series.

[pixie_misa]

calling people delusional because they said they like something that you don't like doesn't strike me as a particularly great way to discuss anything

[Scsigs]

Ok, maybe "delusion" is a harsh word to use, but I genuinely can't see actually enjoying the 30th anniversary remaster when you have access to the other choices. Like, I watched the first episode of Z recently between the Levels, DBoxes, & the 30th anniversary steelbooks. If the 30th was like the Levels in terms of retaining as much quality from the film print as possible & doing decent color correction, I could see why someone would like them, but there was genuinely no care taken to do either of those with it. Yes, the DBoxes are a bit blurry & have warped colors, but I'd rather have that than the FUNi crew's incompetence.

[TheGreatness25]

Ok, maybe "delusion" is a harsh word to use, but I genuinely can't see actually enjoying the 30th anniversary remaster when you have access to the other choices. Like, I watched the first episode of Z recently between the Levels, DBoxes, & the 30th anniversary steelbooks. If the 30th was like the Levels in terms of retaining as much quality from the film print as possible & doing decent color correction, I could see why someone would like them, but there was genuinely no care taken to do either of those with it. Yes, the DBoxes are a bit blurry & have warped colors, but I'd rather have that than the FUNi crew's incompetence.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about which version preserved the series best. I wasn't talking about what corrected the colors the best. I was talking about what looks aesthetician sppealing on a TV. The 30th anniversary set didn't have blown out colors like the season sets, it's not unnaturally cropped, putting the focus on characters' chests or cutting out bits of videos that obviously shouldn't have been cut out. It's not dark or blurry or fuzzy or pink/green tinted. It's a nice, sharp video.

All I'm saying is if I never saw Dragon Ball before and someone presented all the different releases to me, I would say the 30th anniversary set looked the best. I realize it's not, but I realize that because I know too much.

And that's why this is in the "unpopular opinion" thread.

[Noah]

I love Kikuchi score, but I feel like his score in the anime could use some more variety. There are tons of overused tracks.

[MasenkoHA]

I love Kikuchi score, but I feel like his score in the anime could use some more variety. There are tons of overused tracks.

There's a lot of variety.

The problem (although I personally don't see an issue) is Kikuchi would create a a suite for an arc or a movie and the the music editor tend to favor a lot of the newly produced tracks and pull less and less from what came before. A track will be used a lot during an arc and then almost never again.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Yeah, there's plenty of variety with Kikuchi, original Dragon Ball has a lot more adventurous music and Z has more battle-focused pieces.

When people say the Faulconer score was perfect for the increased scale and intensity of the fights in Z I respectfully disagree, as I think Shunsuke Kikuchi is the best in that regard. There's even some songs that use electric guitar for the fans who feel rock music (obviously only needed sparingly, even in Dragon Ball Z, but anything pure rock misses the point because it takes away the mysticism) was lacking.

[Majin Buu]

Yeah, there's plenty of variety with Kikuchi, original Dragon Ball has a lot more adventurous music and Z has more battle-focused pieces.

This. Kikuchi's critics tend to overlook that his Pre-Z and Z era work is very different tonally. The man understood that things changed with Z and changed accordingly.

When people say the Faulconer score was perfect for the increased scale and intensity of the fights in Z I respectfully disagree, as I think Shunsuke Kikuchi is the best in that regard. There's even some songs that use electric guitar for the fans who feel rock music (obviously only needed sparingly, even in Dragon Ball Z, but anything pure rock misses the point because it takes away the mysticism) was lacking.

Hell, going outside of Dragon Ball, his score for Sakigake!! Otokojuku has outright guitar solos in it and at times sounds like 80s (hair?) metal. It's the most "modern" sounding score I've heard from him.

He could have put that stuff in his Dragon Ball scores if he had wanted to (Instead, it's the Kageyama songs that pick up the slack there).

[The Monkey King]

Deftones being used for Goku's transformation against Cooler is peak-cinema and nothing will change my mind.

[Goten_jr]

Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z Anime both aged terribly, godawful pacing, bad non canon & "Anime canon" Filler sometimes embarrassing Animation & Art ....moments like Goku's SS3 transformation where he is screaming for 3-4 Minutes straight is why other shonen fans clown Dragon Ball so much nowdays.

the 100% canon original Dragon Ball Manga is so much superior..... The art, panelling and flow is one of the best ever in Manga History it's where u can consume the real Genius of Toriyama/Dragon Ball

[ABED]

Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z Anime both aged terribly, godawful pacing, bad non canon & "Anime canon" Filler sometimes embarrassing Animation & Art ....moments like Goku's SS3 transformation where he is screaming for 3-4 Minutes straight is why other shonen fans clown Dragon Ball so much nowdays.

the 100% canon original Dragon Ball Manga is so much superior..... The ar, panelling and flow is one of the best ever in Manga History it's where u can consume the real Genius of Toriyama/Dragon Ball

They can clown it all they want but the proof is in the pudding. DB and DBZ's continuing success shows they did something right. And isn't the next most popular anime One Piece?

[Cure Dragon 255]

I just lost all sympathy and I am starting to lose PATIENCE with the "THE FILLER DRAGS ON! LAMEZORX!!!!!!!!!" As soon as they say that, they've lost ANY CREDIBILITY with me. They never talk about how any of the SPECIFIC filler scenes kill the pacing, no, its just "LAME FILLER LAMEZORX!!!!" To their credit this one person DID mention the specific scene and how it was ruined but many dont even bother that far.

[GhostEmperorX]

I love Kikuchi score, but I feel like his score in the anime could use some more variety. There are tons of overused tracks.

Late reply but the original DB was fantastic because it followed the right convention of actually making theme suites around in-show characters.
Z unquestionably lost its way when Toei began spamming (mostly) formulaic rehash movies twice a year (to say nothing of the Hit Song Collections) and then directing all score composition towards that (where it worked much better than in the series). Had the effect of, again, rehashes of moments in the series getting scores that could have been done better had they been done for the characters and moments they were originally based on.

I made a thread on how his movie work in Z was genius, but the fact is it was no longer being focused on the series itself. The only TV material was made at the beginning of a new OP/ED set's debut and nothing beyond that it seems.

Hell, going outside of Dragon Ball, his score for Sakigake!! Otokojuku has outright guitar solos in it and at times sounds like 80s (hair?) metal. It's the most "modern" sounding score I've heard from him.

It should be noted that the score you mentioned was entirely arranged by Katsunori Ishida, where Kikuchi was in charge of the composition.

[Goten_jr]

Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z Anime both aged terribly, godawful pacing, bad non canon & "Anime canon" Filler sometimes embarrassing Animation & Art ....moments like Goku's SS3 transformation where he is screaming for 3-4 Minutes straight is why other shonen fans clown Dragon Ball so much nowdays.

the 100% canon original Dragon Ball Manga is so much superior..... The ar, panelling and flow is one of the best ever in Manga History it's where u can consume the real Genius of Toriyama/Dragon Ball

They can clown it all they want but the proof is in the pudding. DB and DBZ's continuing success shows they did something right. And isn't the next most popular anime One Piece?

yeah obviously the DB/Z Anime adaption was a huge success but that was not my point i just think that the Anime adaption did not age well compared to the Original Manga which has one of the best Pacing/Flow and most consistent Art in Manga History.

most of the criticism towards Dragon Ball today actually either comes from the Anime adaption ( inconsistent Art, awful pacing, awful filler, overdramatic scenes...) or from garbage like Dragon Ball Super ( embarrassing random power ups and transformations, uncreative/generic/ storylines, awful characterizations, plotholes,

[GhostEmperorX]

yeah obviously the DB/Z Anime adaption was a huge success but that was not my point i just think that the Anime adaption did not age well compared to the Original Manga which has one of the best Pacing/Flow and most consistent Art in Manga History.

most of the criticism towards Dragon Ball today actually either comes from the Anime adaption ( inconsistent Art, awful pacing, awful filler, overdramatic scenes...) or from garbage like Dragon Ball Super ( embarrassing random power ups and transformations, uncreative/generic/ storylines, awful characterizations, plotholes,

Consider that it was an era in which anime adaptations of manga really weren't all that faithful to what was there in the source material, the same even holds true of some contemporary adaptation series. DB was likely one of the first few long-running series to have an adaptation close to the source material [concrete citation still needed].

[Goten_jr]

I just lost all sympathy and I am starting to lose PATIENCE with the "THE FILLER DRAGS ON! LAMEZORX!!!!!!!!!" As soon as they say that, they've lost ANY CREDIBILITY with me. They never talk about how any of the SPECIFIC filler scenes kill the pacing, no, its just "LAME FILLER LAMEZORX!!!!" To their credit this one person DID mention the specific scene and how it was ruined but many dont even bother that far.

i don't think every single Filler is trash i fact i believe the Saiyan arc in Z for example actually benefited from it's Filler.

I am talking about stuff like the entire Namek Arc ,Garlic Jr. , dragged out Fights that don't really enhance the Story, Beam Struggles that last Minutes....

[Cure Dragon 255]

I just lost all sympathy and I am starting to lose PATIENCE with the "THE FILLER DRAGS ON! LAMEZORX!!!!!!!!!" As soon as they say that, they've lost ANY CREDIBILITY with me. They never talk about how any of the SPECIFIC filler scenes kill the pacing, no, its just "LAME FILLER LAMEZORX!!!!" To their credit this one person DID mention the specific scene and how it was ruined but many dont even bother that far.

i don't think every single Filler is trash i fact i believe the Saiyan arc in Z for example actually benefited from it's Filler.

I am talking about stuff like the entire Namek Arc ,Garlic Jr. , dragged out Fights that don't really enhance the Story, Beam Struggles that last Minutes....

Thank goodness, I was worried for backlash against my rudeness, and I am glad you enjoyed those scenes from the anime.

[MasenkoHA]

Z unquestionably lost its way when Toei began spamming (mostly) formulaic rehash movies twice a year (to say nothing of the Hit Song Collections) and then directing all score composition towards that (where it worked much better than in the series). Had the effect of, again, rehashes of moments in the series getting scores that could have been done better had they been done for the characters and moments they were originally based on.

It's a mixed bag. I just recently got finished rewatching the Saiyan arc and the overreliance on music from the first Z movie once Vegeta and Nappa arrive on earth is highly noticeable. I wouldn't go as far as saying it doesn't fit but it does have a feeling of "this music was intended for something else" more often than not. On the other hand, there were definitely music cues introduced in the movies that work better in the series than their original context. Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 theme in Z movie 9 got put to better use as "The Lone warrior says goodbye" music in the Boo saga. The Chorus of Doom while somewhat atmospheric in its usage in Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle gets put to more chilling and dramatic effect for Piccolo and Kami's deaths, Krillin getting skewered by Freeza, and Vegeta's first death.