John on international response to the live-action movie

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:32 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:It is the whiny bitchy fans that do not even give the movie a chance and ruins it for others.

I don't get this. Why are some people so gullible as to think it's the fanbase, and not corporate hollywood who tend to be at fault? You're just saying what the execs want you to think.

There's nothing wrong with complaining. If you don't like the look of something, it's a natural response.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:34 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Tsukento wrote:It's basically the whole "lol You guys are just looking for excuses to complain. I'll keep covering my eyes and ears and pretending that there's nothing wrong." attitude that's really bothersome.
It is called enjoying the Dragonball franchise you ever heard of it? How can someone give something a chance if they are sitting there looking for every detail that is off so they can complain.

"Enjoying the Dragonball franchise" is exactly the problem. You're following it just because it bears some surface resemblence to Dragonball and is part of the franchise. Pretty mindless if you ask me. Just because you enjoy Dragonball does not mean you have to enjoy every bastardisation of it. Dumbfuck opinion pushing Transformers fans need to learn this for their franchise too.

When Goku's character is completely off, why are you bitching that fans only find "MinoR" flaws?

If someone decides that Goku's character being off is enough to ruin the movie for them, they don't NEED to be open minded. Like if I'm in the market specifically for a 4 wheel drive and you offer me a motorbike, it may have a lot of the same functionality and internal components, but chances are, it'll be no good to me. If I decide that's enough to put me off the movie, then that's my decision and it's not your right to call me a "whiner".

Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:06 pm

Rena Rune wrote:"Enjoying the Dragonball franchise" is exactly the problem. You're following it just because it bears some surface resemblence to Dragonball and is part of the franchise.

...So?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:16 pm

Rena Rune wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Tsukento wrote:It's basically the whole "lol You guys are just looking for excuses to complain. I'll keep covering my eyes and ears and pretending that there's nothing wrong." attitude that's really bothersome.
It is called enjoying the Dragonball franchise you ever heard of it? How can someone give something a chance if they are sitting there looking for every detail that is off so they can complain.
"Enjoying the Dragonball franchise" is exactly the problem. You're following it just because it bears some surface resemblence to Dragonball and is part of the franchise. Pretty mindless if you ask me. Just because you enjoy Dragonball does not mean you have to enjoy every bastardisation of it. Dumbfuck opinion pushing Transformers fans need to learn this for their franchise too.

When Goku's character is completely off, why are you bitching that fans only find "MinoR" flaws?

If someone decides that Goku's character being off is enough to ruin the movie for them, they don't NEED to be open minded. Like if I'm in the market specifically for a 4 wheel drive and you offer me a motorbike, it may have a lot of the same functionality and internal components, but chances are, it'll be no good to me. If I decide that's enough to put me off the movie, then that's my decision and it's not your right to call me a "whiner".

You can dislike the movie for some trivial and unreasonable matter as Kakarrot being in high school or whatever, but it is not as if Fox said it was an accurate adaption. The point is all the bitiching and complaining it getting to the wrong people and it is ruining it for those who may want to see the movie. This is a prime example of why fans of manga/anime and other similar genres get a bad name because of overly obsessed people taking a damn cartoon for little kids which is being adapted into a movie way too seriously.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:22 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:You can dislike the movie for some trivial and unreasonable matter as Kakarrot being in high school or whatever, but it is not as if Fox said it was an accurate adaption.

That seems like kind of a flimsy excuse to me.

"Look everyone! Dragonball!"
"...That doesn't look like Dragonball."
"I didn't say it was Dragonball, I said it was called Dragonball, you obsessive fanboy. Where do you get these extreme expectations?! Gawd!"

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:25 pm

People's opinions don't make or break this movie for me.
Chatku's "I'm not ready for this." and "........cool." break it for me.
Goku is my favorite DB character. Seeing his quirky, optimistic, battle-loving personality replaced with the "dull-as-dirt, I'm-so-hip-and-emotionless-thus-making-me-cool" I've seen so far just about breaks my heart.

In the end, for me, its not about what movie "Goku" looks like (and Chatwin looks NOTHING like Goku aside from being a man), its how true to the heart of the character his personality is. (Although I would be happier if they'd picked someone with dark eyes, slightly wilder hair, and with a bit more muscle mass to him.)

Actually I like reading the debates between both sides and those who are neutral on the whole matter. Its interesting.

While I most likely won't see this movie in theaters, I will watch it once it makes the rounds on the movie channels (I know FOX has their own.)

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:27 pm

Unfortunately it seems to be the current trend, in America at least, to chalk up any and all complaints about the established order under the “whiners” category. It’s the same mentality that has turned political opposition into thoughtcrime. “This is what was given to us; how dare you question it; you’re ungrateful and/or a terrorist.”

The fact of the matter is, questioning things is healthy. It highlights issues that otherwise would have been neglected, and challenges the creators to be at their best. The nay-sayers have only been this vocal about their opinions, not because they are “bitches,” but because they care, and want to see things improve. Are they to be villainized for that? Is knee-jerk submission really any better?

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:28 pm

Chuquita wrote:Chatku

But I agree with what you say. The personality is wrong, he looks different (hi izant eishan!!one!), and is basically just inheriting a name from his source.

I wanna see it in theatres though.

Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:30 pm

I, personally, am the kind of guy who actually likes seeing new and inventive takes on what he already likes, sometimes even more than the original. I understand if there's "too much" that's different for a lot of other people to enjoy this film, but that doesn't really bother me. I see it as an "alternate DragonBall," and that's fine with me.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:32 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:...So?

If you’re okay with cheap imitations, can you really call yourself a fan of the series? I don’t mean that derisively. Can you, logically speaking, say that you are a fan of Dragon Ball, being contented by any subject matter so long as it bears it the same title?

Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:52 pm

Who said it was a cheap imitation? Labeling it that really isn't fair. It's someone else's interpretation, and as a "creative type" fan, I can understand and even appreciate that. I made a comparison on it a couple months ago; Imagine the original DragonBall is like the Mona Lisa.

A "cheap imitation" would be if someone did a crudely horrible attempt at actually recreating the painting and then pass it off as the same thing. Or worse, got Rob Liefeld to do one. What Evolution is would be more comparable to someone doing it in an entirely different art style; like something colorful and pop-arty or abstract and cubist, and then labeling it as "Pop Art Mona Lisa" or "Cubist Mona Lisa."

In the same way, Evolution is a new interpretation of the original material, purposely done in a somewhat different style. It's not something "substandard" that's trying to pass itself off AS the original material. There's a big difference.

But before anyone says it, Yes, there is a point at which it would "no longer resemble DragonBall," but let's be honest with ourselves; Wong hasn't even gotten close to crossing that line. There's still plenty within the movie that pegs it as "DragonBall," but for the sake of creative license, there's been other things that have been omitted or changed.

That's okay with me, because such is James Wong's DragonBall Universe, and I can't wait to dive headfirst into it. As a writer and artist myself, I'm as enthusiastic as I can be to see the movie, because I want to see for myself just HOW the film handles things, and what it does or doesn't manage to include, and the little easter-egg references, and all the general new creative tweaks that have been made. DragonBall: Evolution is the ultimate "Alternate Universe" fanfiction.

Star Trek fans at the moment MIGHT have something worth calling foul on. Visual and plot things have been tweaked in the upcoming Trek film. The difference being that the new Trek movie IS supposed to "fit in" with the rest of the pre-existing film and series continuity.

No offense to anyone here, but in light of that, DragonBall fans really have nothing to complain about with our movie. IF we had actually been promised or led to believe we were getting something mirroring the manga, but THEN got what Evolution is... then even I would be annoyed and a bit P.O'd. But we were promised that. Yet for some reason, many folks continue to expect it anyway.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:53 pm

jda95 wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Chatku

But I agree with what you say. The personality is wrong, he looks different (hi izant eishan!!one!), and is basically just inheriting a name from his source.

I wanna see it in theatres though.

What does the character's ethnicity have to do with it?

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:57 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
jda95 wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Chatku

But I agree with what you say. The personality is wrong, he looks different (hi izant eishan!!one!), and is basically just inheriting a name from his source.

I wanna see it in theatres though.
What does the character's ethnicity have to do with it?

That was a joke at unintelligent fanboys who need an Asian Goku. Note the netspeak.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:03 am

I don't think ethnicity has anything to do with it. It's not that it'd be impossible for Chatwin to pop in a couple dark-brown contact lenses and be on his way (Goku's eyes aren't blue >_O ) and I don't see any reason aside from genuine laziness on the wardrobe department or extreme-discomfort while wearing contacts for Chatwin's "Goku" not to have almost-black eyes (or black hair for that matter).

The only reason I can think of for them going with Chatwin's natural eye color is because bright blue is an eyecatching color in terms of advertisement. Look at FOX's ads for House.

I'm much more concerned about Chatku's personality than looks though. ^^; (I'm partly satisfied with those bangs from the third chapter book).

The only way I'd be swayed to see this movie in theaters is if I knew I was getting a "Goku" with a true-to-the-character personality. Chatku would need to behave and react like, well, Goku.

With what I've seen so far, he hasn't.

Tatsunoboshi Horoko · Post by **Tatsunoboshi Horoko** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:17 am

I started translating this for shits and giggles.

The live action film, "Dragonball Evolution," has finally started its trailer's public run. Scenes of Goku firing the "Kamehame-ha" and several fighting scenes, to name a few, have been included in the trailer, which has the whole thing envoke an atmosphere of a "CG-driven, serious Kung Fu movie." However, in conerns to the info known so far and, likewise, the preview, particularly on "Nico Nico Douga" and "2Channel," harsh comments have been exchanged, such as, "What the-? This is sad."; "This really reeks 'B-Movie.'"; "10 billion yen down the drain."; "I just pray that Toriyama doesn't know of this film."

Also, with Dragonball having a multitude of fans of the original work overseas as well, criticism such as these are being seen all over the world. When reported that "Evolution" had been added to the title, American news sites have had many angry comments on them posted on them, such as, "Did they even look at the original? This movie is gonna suck!"; "WHY'S GOKU WANNA SING IN UCLA? FUCKERS!", "This is gotta be the 'stupid version.'"

Someone translating this worldwide reaction, a summary video, "Dragonball Evolution Trailer: The World's Reaction," has become a topic on places such as "Nico Nico Douga" and "Youtube."

This video has translated comments posted on "Youtube," foreign message boards, and blogs. The person who made the video say that they are giving a redention to the conversational tone as "Japanese translations are going to be subjective," but adds a note that "Everything in this video actually exists."

Watching the its contents, you can see it's filled with angry voices from around the world; "This is a joke, right? Have they even read DB at all?" (China,) "This is Dragonball? What a farce." (Canada); "This fucking movie is going to destroy Dragonball's legend" (U.K); "Are they gonna sell it at Comic Market 75?" (France); "I've been reading DB ever since I was a kid. This is just a piece of shit with the DB title attached to it." (US); "Hope you feel ashamed, bastard Hollywood!" (Belgium); "This is horrible! Quit destroying the anime!" (US); "Gah! Why does Bulma have a gun? Does America really like guns that much?" (US); "Is this Star Wars DB-edition?" (Holland); "Shut up and make X-Files already!" (US.)

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:18 am

Chuquita wrote: In the end, for me, its not about what movie "Goku" looks like (and Chatwin looks NOTHING like Goku aside from being a man)

Honestly, I think it would be hard to find anyone who even vaguely resembles Goku in real life. As Akira Toriyama's style is completely unrealistic in every aspect. I have never even seen a decent Goku cosplay. And please don't sight a picture of a girl with an accurate wig.

Also, for the most part me and Kaboom agree on the movie subject, so I don't really feel like explaining my stance, since he and myself have already done it numerous times before.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:19 am

Children's cartoons are serious business.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:22 am

JAPPO wrote:Children's cartoons are serious business.

Don't you know that Transformers was a GOD AWFUL MOVIE because it had Teenagers in High School in it!

I'm kidding, I loved transformers, but I guess that's because I am not a rabid transformers elitist. I just watched it as a kid and loved beast wars, so I am not a true fan.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:25 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:Who said it was a cheap imitation?

70% of the international fan base.

A "cheap imitation" would be if someone did a crudely horrible attempt at actually recreating the painting and then pass it off as the same thing.

How has DBE failed that description, exactly?

In the same way, Evolution is a new interpretation of the original material, purposely done in a somewhat different style.

Correction: very different style. Slight differences do not polarize fans this heavily.

It's not something "substandard" that's trying to pass itself off AS the original material. There's a big difference.

It is most definitely substandard, at least in regard to the premise those familiar with the series actually expect. It calls itself Dragon Ball; there should be some Dragon Ball in it.

But before anyone says it, Yes, there is a point at which it would "no longer resemble DragonBall," but let's be honest with ourselves; Wong hasn't even gotten close to crossing that line.

When would he cross that line, exactly? The way I see it, he’s not only past the line, but he’s gone off the diving board and into the deep end. “Not even close”? Really? I mean, you ask for honesty, but your optimism seems almost cult-like. Most if not all of your defenses of the movie seem to be based not on the movie itself but this idealized version of it you have in your head.

There's still plenty within the movie that pegs it as "DragonBall," but for the sake of creative license, there's been other things that have been omitted or changed.

Many. Other. Things.

DragonBall: Evolution is the ultimate "Alternate Universe" fanfiction.

An alternate universe without Kuririn? How ultimate are we talking exactly?

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:26 am

omegacwa wrote:
Chuquita wrote: In the end, for me, its not about what movie "Goku" looks like (and Chatwin looks NOTHING like Goku aside from being a man)
Honestly, I think it would be hard to find anyone who even vaguely resembles Goku in real life. As Akira Toriyama's style is completely unrealistic in every aspect. I have never even seen a decent Goku cosplay. And please don't sight a picture of a girl with an accurate wig.

Also, for the most part me and Kaboom agree on the movie subject, so I don't really feel like explaining my stance, since he and myself have already done it numerous times before.

He doesn't need to have the Goku hair; I know that hair's impossible even in 2D. (Like how it changes which way it faces when Goku turns his head to the side; an MC Escher type of hair Goku has. @_@)
Point: http://announcerguy.deviantart.com/art/ ... n-29442941

I'd be happy with Chatku having hair in this movie that's a cross between his hair in The Invisible and Goten's at the end of the manga.

Kanzenshuu

John on international response to the live-action movie

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