Bad sub line, or plothole?

[Endishiki]

Back in the days of fansubs, I downloaded episode 184, aka the "16 dies, Gohan wages" episode. It was ripped straight from the International Channel, and based on what I've compared and contrasted to a few other sources, there may be some inaccuracies in the lines. I haven't gotten a chance to see the Viz version or the FUNi DVD, though, so I'd like to ask...

During one of the 'Gohan watches in horror' segments, he says something along the lines of "Please stop... we've already revived everyone but Trunks with the Dragon Balls!"

If this line is the real thing, it's a bit of a flub.
Goku, Vegita, and Kuririn, were they to die due to the Cell Jrs, would not be able to return. They were all revived by the Earthen DBs, and thus Shenlong. The original Shenlong of Earth had the limitation of only being able to revive someone once. The presence of Dende as the new God of Earth adds a second wish to the DBs, but retains the same limitation of one revival alone. This is why Goku isn't revived, and Piccolo notes this.

Yamcha and Tenshinhan were both revived by Porunga of the Namekian DBs. Reviving them would be possible. Since the existence of the DBs no longer relies on his continued existence, Piccolo could die and be revived. Remember, he (and God) were also revived by Porunga. Ditto Trunks, as Gohan noted.

So... someone with a copy of the Viz manga, the Ascension DVD, or some sort of knowledge of the scene... could they fill me in? I'd honestly like to type something for this up.

[*PINHEAD*]

Maybe because all the major Z-Senshi had been killed before, making them unable to return with the Earth dragonballs. Then they would have to go all the way to the new Namek, which would be a pain, especially if Son Goku died. The Namekian balls rely on the existence of whoever succeeded the Great Elder Saichourou dude or whatever.

[Endishiki]

Maybe because all the major Z-Senshi had been killed before, making them unable to return with the Earth dragonballs. Then they would have to go all the way to the new Namek, which would be a pain, especially if Son Goku died. The Namekian balls rely on the existence of whoever succeeded the Great Elder Saichourou dude or whatever.

True enough (although it would technically only be a portion of the major characters... remember, Trunks and Piccolo could be revived with the Earthen DBs), but I'm sure Gohan was more concerned with "How do I keep everyone alive?!" as opposed to "How are we going to beat Cell?!".

[IncredibleGuy]

The correct line is (and this isn't exact) "Everyone except Trunks have already been revived with the Dragon Balls. If they die they're never coming back!".... or something like that.

[Endishiki]

The correct line is (and this isn't exact) "Everyone except Trunks have already been revived with the Dragon Balls. If they die they're never coming back!".... or something like that.

Close enough to the sub line, it seems. Oh well... maybe Gohan was simply letting the stress go to his head.

[IncredibleGuy]

Ha, I read your initial post wrong. I thought you originally said "We just revived everyone, but Trunks". I hope my careless post was helpful to you. {:

[alakazam^]

I'm not pretty sure if I understood the point of this topic, but anyway: I think that the only one that could be revived by the Earthern Dragon Balls was Trunks. Shenron can't revive anyone that has died before, it doesn't matter if they were brought back by the Dragon Balls on Nameck or if a wizard did it. they all had died once, hence, only Trunks could be revived (and so could Gohan, but whatever)

[Super Sonic]

With the being revived more than once thing, I don't think they ever distinguished if that only referred ot those wished back by the Earth Dragon Balls. And the translated manga said something close to that line.

[laserkid]

Semi off topical here, but ironically Trunks is the one that Cell ACTUALLY kills (Well Goku too, but Goku more or less suicides himself). I now have to wonder what in hell was going through Cells mind - "I'll kill the one guy they CAN bring back! Mwahahahah I am soooo evil!" or something.

Anyway back on topic, the FUNimation translation goes like this (watching DVD to get an exact line rip here...) "S-Stop...! Except for Trunks, nobody can be brought back to life with the Dragon Balls!" he says internally - not out loud.

Well I suppose I've answered my own question there, Gohan actually did not say it to Cell just thought it, in the anime anyway.

[Mike D]

Well, I believe the title of this topic was "Bad sub line, or plothole?". I would say that is was another one of those DragonBall Z plotholes. Reason being is that all of the sub lines that I read seem similar. Not to mention the already large amount of plotholes.

[The S]

Semi off topical here, but ironically Trunks is the one that Cell ACTUALLY kills (Well Goku too, but Goku more or less suicides himself). I now have to wonder what in hell was going through Cells mind - "I'll kill the one guy they CAN bring back! Mwahahahah I am soooo evil!" or something.

I believe, in the manga anyway (it's been years since I've seen the anime episode), Cell was just shooting blindly, as he asks rhetorically who he hit when he comes out of the smokescreen.

[*PINHEAD*]

Looking at tankoubon #35...

Page 73...big explosion...Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo shocked, hand sending a ki blast through the smoke...

Page 74...blast goes through Trunks, Trunks falls, Vegeta is stunned, Cell asks who he hits, he answers to himself "Trunks."

I've always thought he randomly shot at whoever, but it can be possible he intentionally aimed at Trunks to incite the rage of Vegeta or something and asked who he hit rhetorically (as mentioned before) just to be all villainous like that.

[TripleRach]

Hmm, this is a pretty interesting subject. I can only recall two mentions as to the revival limitations of the Dragon Balls. The first is in the beginning of the Saiya-jin saga, where Gokuu says Shenlong can't grant the same wish twice. The second is at the end of the Freeza saga, where Kami-sama says people who've been dead more than a year can't be revived.

But obviously, only that first one is relevant. The Earth Shenlong never did grant a wish to revive Tenshinhan, Piccolo, or Yamcha. So I guess the question is, can Shenlong also not grant wishes that other dragons have already granted?

Either way, I think it might be safe to assume that Gohan didn't think it out much (to take some of the blame off our author possibly not thinking it out much ).

[Pedro The Hutt]

I believe that the revive-within-a-year rule also existed within the original DB. Or at least, they did go and put Kuririn in a capsule to prevent him from becoming "Kuririn the zombie"... or at least, that's how the dutch translation put it.

[SaiyaJedi]

I believe that the revive-within-a-year rule also existed within the original DB. Or at least, they did go and put Kuririn in a capsule to prevent him from becoming "Kuririn the zombie"... or at least, that's how the dutch translation put it.

That's just so his body didn't rot. I mean, would you want to be revived into a body that wasn't quite fresh?

[Pedro The Hutt]

Well, yeah, that's what I meant. XD Bodyrot does carry on in DB so that most likely explains why you need to revive someone within the year anyway. Because in most cases by then there's not much left to revive anyway. >.>;;

[Mike D]

A good example of this would be the preservation of Ten, Yamcha, and Piccolo.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

They kinda stopped doing that after the Saiyan Saga. They just magically got new bodies when being revived.

[*PINHEAD*]

An explanation would be that their bodies were completely annihilated, but the ones in charge of the afterlife knew they would be needed later, so they just gave them new ones. Dragon Ball's definition of death is somewhat contradictory. Death is supposed to be the permament removal of a person's soul from their body, yet even dead guys have their bodies (just with a halo). Yeah.

[Pedro The Hutt]

Well, y'see. They're "special" , we've seen plenty of the more traditional blue-flame-souls floating about. XD Unless that's only in the anime.