Kai Stopping at Freeza? Since When?

[Gaffer Tape]

Personally, I hope they don't mess with the ending. While the new ending does have some slight improvements over the old one, I really disagree with its existance in the first place. Me no likes revisionism. But just out of curiosity, do the new tankobon releases have the original ending or the new one?

[SSVegetto]

Well,Akira Toriyama plan was to end Dragon Ball at Freeza {Dont know where this rumor come from} so maybe that`s the meaning of "Akira Toriyama cut" tagline?

We've been over this before in various threads, and is something I've been meaning to add to the "Rumor Guide" forever. There is no evidence to support this. Toriyama never said anything along those lines, no production materials hint at it, no references ever point to a legitimate source, etc. There's nothing ever said about it. It's all wild fan speculation.

I swear, this has to be by-and-far the biggest baseless rumor ever in the history of DragonBall. It is quoted as gospel on every forum across the internet, I'm sure in multiple languages. As Mike said, it's all wild fan speculation. And thanks to Kai, it is brought up more and more on these here forums more than I care it to be.

Baseless? I'm not so sure. Well, let me just ask you guys this or anyone else that wants to chime in on this. Because I remember people telling me the same thing that Akira Toriyama was suppose to end it at the Freeza arc. But he decided to keep it going because the ratings where so high. <- Of course that doesn't make any sense because the manga was probably ahead of the anime.

But anyways, the speculation suggested that it was suppose to end at the Freeza Arc. That Goku fulfilled the legend and he became a Super Saiyan. And also it was suppose to end with us wondering if Goku survived the planet. It just seemed like Akira Toriyama had planned that out and it was suppose to end there. That would be a great point to end it with Goku fulfilling the legend and the planet exploding at the end.

The scenes seemed to also suggest that too. After Goku couldn't get Freeza's ship to work, he then gave up and then he yelled at the end. Then the planet exploded. I don't know how exactly how it is in the manga with these scenes though. But in the anime it sure felt like it indicated like he didn't survive. Or at least the anime had the intent to leave us wondering.

But only after Akira Toriyama decided to continue the series, he made up an explanation later that skipped that scene with Goku giving up and yelling. Unless that was filller. But it seemed like it was all built up, and later Akira Toriyama changed his mind to continue the series, and then he had Goku jump out of the ship and see one of the Ginyu's pod... That is my theory.

I didn't even think this was actually a rumor at the time it was told to me. I thought it was true because it made sense. Also, wouldn't it be simple just to ask Akira Toriyama about it? Seems like it's really silly to have it as a rumor. If we can find out if it's true or not. I wonder if he has been asked this. You said Akira Toriyama didn't say anything to confirm it being true. But it also appears like he also didn't say it was false either. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but don't grill me, please! I'm just curious. I just think Akira Toriyama didn't have to say it to be true if the anime or the manga itself suggest that. But that doesn't necessarily make it a fact either.

Also I have talked to people that actually wish the series ended there and they also claimed there wasn't suppose to be something past a Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan was it, that was the legend. But for me I'm sure glad it was continued anyways.

[VegettoEX]

Baseless? I'm not so sure. Well, let me just ask you guys this or anyone else that wants to chime in on this. Because I remember people telling me the same thing that Akira Toriyama was suppose to end it at the Freeza arc.

Your entire post is null and void after this statement.

That's the whole point of the problem, right there.

[Khalid Shahin]

Baseless? I'm not so sure. Well, let me just ask you guys this or anyone else that wants to chime in on this. Because I remember people telling me the same thing that Akira Toriyama was suppose to end it at the Freeza arc.

Your entire post is null and void after this statement.

That's the whole point of the problem, right there.

So he's not supposed to listen to what other people say and listen to what other people say? ;O

But I understand, that is how baseless beliefs occur.

[Innagadadavida]

But anyways, the speculation suggested that it was suppose to end at the Freeza Arc. That Goku fulfilled the legend and he became a Super Saiyan. And also it was suppose to end with us wondering if Goku survived the planet. It just seemed like Akira Toriyama had planned that out and it was suppose to end there. That would be a great point to end it with Goku fulfilling the legend and the planet exploding at the end.

It would have been a pretty terrible place to end the story. Goku dying leaves two psycho killers on Earth with nobody strong enough to stand up to either of them.

But now that I think about it, Piccolo was stronger than Vegeta at that point and he did have some good influence from Nail.

[Taku128]

But anyways, the speculation suggested that it was suppose to end at the Freeza Arc. That Goku fulfilled the legend and he became a Super Saiyan. And also it was suppose to end with us wondering if Goku survived the planet. It just seemed like Akira Toriyama had planned that out and it was suppose to end there. That would be a great point to end it with Goku fulfilling the legend and the planet exploding at the end.

It would have been a pretty terrible place to end the story. Goku dying leaves two psycho killers on Earth with nobody strong enough to stand up to either of them.

But now that I think about it, Piccolo was stronger than Vegeta at that point and he did have some good influence from Nail.

This is assuming that the ending would literally be unchanged aside from Goku and Freeza actually dying. The theory I've heard is that Piccolo died from Freeza's attack, preventing Saichoro and everyone else Freeza killed from being wished back to life. Gohan and Bulma head for Earth in Goku's spaceship, leaving Freeza and Goku alone on Namek. Goku kills Freeza, but has no way to leave the planet. The Legendary Super Saiyan dies in the planet's explosion, and Gohan is left as Earth's only remaining warrior. I think it's a pretty good ending personally. No bullshit obviously shoehorned in "Freeza's terror caused Saichoro to die a few days early!" explanation, and Super Saiyan would remain something that appears in one Saiyan every thousand years. It also would've led to a much more interesting GT, where Gohan has to learn to be a hero in his father's stead.

[Gaffer Tape]

Wow. I suppose that really would have left every single main character dead, wouldn't it? It'd be like Transformers: The Movie.

[Makaioshin]

But now that I think about it, Piccolo was stronger than Vegeta at that point and he did have some good influence from Nail.

IIRC wasn't Vegeta the stronger one?
Yeah that wouldn't have been a good open ending. At least, in my opinion.

[penguintruth]

It seemed to me that it wouldn't make sense to have ended it at Freeza, since the story had been building Gohan up, and the Cell arc was the more logical conclusion.

[Xyex]

This is assuming that the ending would literally be unchanged aside from Goku and Freeza actually dying. The theory I've heard is that Piccolo died from Freeza's attack, preventing Saichoro and everyone else Freeza killed from being wished back to life. Gohan and Bulma head for Earth in Goku's spaceship, leaving Freeza and Goku alone on Namek. Goku kills Freeza, but has no way to leave the planet. The Legendary Super Saiyan dies in the planet's explosion, and Gohan is left as Earth's only remaining warrior. I think it's a pretty good ending personally. No bullshit obviously shoehorned in "Freeza's terror caused Saichoro to die a few days early!" explanation, and Super Saiyan would remain something that appears in one Saiyan every thousand years. It also would've led to a much more interesting GT, where Gohan has to learn to be a hero in his father's stead.

That's one theory. The other is that Piccolo would have still lived and the wish to bring back those killed by Freeza would have still happened, but Guru would have stayed dead this time. Thus no more Namekian Dragonballs. So everyone but Goku and Krillin would have been revived after Freeza. That still leaves Vegeta as a bit of an issue but I think Gohan and Piccolo could have taken him at that point, anyway.

[Taku128]

It seemed to me that it wouldn't make sense to have ended it at Freeza, since the story had been building Gohan up, and the Cell arc was the more logical conclusion.

There's really very little of this in the manga version of the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. It shouldn't be up to Toriyama to follow through on something Toei started.

This is assuming that the ending would literally be unchanged aside from Goku and Freeza actually dying. The theory I've heard is that Piccolo died from Freeza's attack, preventing Saichoro and everyone else Freeza killed from being wished back to life. Gohan and Bulma head for Earth in Goku's spaceship, leaving Freeza and Goku alone on Namek. Goku kills Freeza, but has no way to leave the planet. The Legendary Super Saiyan dies in the planet's explosion, and Gohan is left as Earth's only remaining warrior. I think it's a pretty good ending personally. No bullshit obviously shoehorned in "Freeza's terror caused Saichoro to die a few days early!" explanation, and Super Saiyan would remain something that appears in one Saiyan every thousand years. It also would've led to a much more interesting GT, where Gohan has to learn to be a hero in his father's stead.

That's one theory. The other is that Piccolo would have still lived and the wish to bring back those killed by Freeza would have still happened, but Guru would have stayed dead this time. Thus no more Namekian Dragonballs. So everyone but Goku and Krillin would have been revived after Freeza. That still leaves Vegeta as a bit of an issue but I think Gohan and Piccolo could have taken him at that point, anyway.

That makes no sense though, the Earth Dragon Balls can only make one wish. They'd all be stuck on Namek.

[Xyex]

That makes no sense though, the Earth Dragon Balls can only make one wish. They'd all be stuck on Namek.

Well, they could just use the Earth DBs to revive ONLY those killed by the Saiya-jins on Earth and not worry about the Namekians. Thus Bulma and Gohan escape on Goku's ship and Vegeta's never revived.

[Innagadadavida]

IIRC wasn't Vegeta the stronger one?
Yeah that wouldn't have been a good open ending. At least, in my opinion.

I think Piccolo was stronger after he fused with Nail. He was on par with second form Freeza and Vegeta was not.

[coola]

Sorry, but I think that after Vegeta got healed by Dende, he was stronger than Piccolo.

[Innagadadavida]

Pffft. Stronger my eye. You can't go from shitting your pants at first form Freeza to being able to hold your own against second form from a single zenkai.

[coola]

Why not? If Goku can go from 90.000 to about 3.000.000? I'm sorry for offtopic,it is the last time
JulieYBM: Thank you,fixed

[JulieYBM]

...what? Vegeta--after being healed by Dende--was stronger than Piccolo. There's just no getting around that. He proved he could keep up with a blast Freeza sent Gohan's way and amazed Piccolo with his strength.

Why not? If Goku can go from 60.000 to about 4.000.000? I'm sorry for offtopic,it is the last time

He went from 90,000 to 3,000,000.

[Rocketman]

...what? Vegeta--after being healed by Dende--was stronger than Piccolo. There's just no getting around that. He proved he could keep up with a blast Freeza sent Gohan's way and amazed Piccolo with his strength.

Yeah, Vegeta was knocking Gohan out of the way of attacks Piccolo didn't even notice were happening (by kicking him in the face, natch).

[Xyex]

Yeah. Vegeta's Zenkai after the "Krillin ex Machina™" blast is smaller than Goku's (IMO, around 400,000 to around 1.7 million) and smaller, as well, than the one he got post-Recoome fight. So it's not without precedent. Absurd, yes, but not without precedent. He was certainly stronger than Piccolo at that point. Piccolo couldn't even keep up with 3rd Form Freeza, let alone track 4th Form Freeza's movements, but Vegeta could.