Future #17 and... pills?

[Dio Brando]

Something else: when Trunks and Kuririn visit Gero's lab, Trunks finds 17's blueprints there. I always thought just why only his blueprints were there.

I think they used this tidbit on GT. Gero said 17 was actually the "leader type" Artificial Human, and that he had potential to be stronger than Cell. However, the location of the blueprints may indicate he had a project in mind to modify 17, but ended up scrapping it, just like Cell's.

[Dayspring]

Although that still leaves the question of why exactly are they weaker than their past counterparts.

I don't know how to explain, either, but I do think the future ones are weaker.

It's possible they actually are. Gero wouldn't have had a reason to create #19 and get turned into #20 with Goku being dead. That leaves quite a bit of free time to "fix" them like he had originally planned.

[dbgtFO]

Although that still leaves the question of why exactly are they weaker than their past counterparts.

I don't know how to explain, either, but I do think the future ones are weaker.

It's possible they actually are. Gero wouldn't have had a reason to create #19 and get turned into #20 with Goku being dead. That leaves quite a bit of free time to "fix" them like he had originally planned.

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

It's the best thing about DragonBall!!

...Okay okay I'm leaving this thread already XD

No!! You stay here and share with the group. *drags Bura back* >:D

Bura! Get back in here! and Take it like a man!

It seems that the Artificial Humans can't save their clothes as efficiently as other fighters using ki.

I don't know, Goku sure seems to tear through those uniforms of his (sometimes literally so).

Like in the Saiya-Jin arc.

[Dayspring]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how.

[caejones]

Yeah, I'm just gonna agree with Kaboom.

Come to think of it, though... which was released first: the manga chapter in which Trunks said that the "present" versions were stronger, or "Trunks: the Story"?

[Great Saiyaman I]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how.

Well if you remember, all of these magical nonsensical changes happened when Trunks showed up. I think this can be filed into that category.

[dbgtFO]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how.

Well if you remember, all of these magical nonsensical changes happened when Trunks showed up. I think this can be filed into that category.

What do you mean?? I don't understand the 'nonsensical changes' part.

[Dayspring]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how.

Well if you remember, all of these magical nonsensical changes happened when Trunks showed up. I think this can be filed into that category.

Not really. They're all caused by Trunks not having appropriate intel. For example:

1) Trunks kills Freeza because Goku would have been late "for some reason."
Answer: He was never late. Knowing shunkan ido, Goku teleported the rest of the distance and defeated Freeza.

2) If Goku teleported, why did Trunks know the exact time and location of Goku's ship's arrival?
Answer: Why would ANYBODY know that information by heart, even among those who saw him arrive? What most likely happened is that Bulma forgot the date and location of Freeza's arrival, so she used science to find the pod and determine when it landed. She then gave Trunks that information, so he figured Goku came by pod.

3) Where did androids #19 and #20 come from?
Answer: They were always there, they just got destroyed either before Gohan learned of their existence, or Gohan simply never told Trunks and Bulma about them since it didn't matter.

4) Where did #16 disappear to?
Answer A: Wherever he wanted. With Goku dead, his programming has been fulfilled and he doesn't have to hurt people against his will. With Gero dead, his programming won't be altered to go after people besides Goku.
Answer B: Without a future Trunks to interfere, the stasis pod got destroyed before he was activated.

5) Where did Cell come from?
Answer: Cause and effect. Cell went back further than 764, which creates a new timeline where Trunks doesn't show up in 764 or 767. Come 767, Cell dies off in one of several plausible outcomes (two most likely are that A) he encounters the androids, thinks they're loyal to Gero like he did in the manga and tells them about his goals. They kill him before he powers up. B) Kamicollo kills him but is in turn killed by the androids). Trunks grows up believing he comes from the original timeline, when in fact he never did.

This just leaves the idea of the strength differences being left unanswered, but as others have pointed out, Trunks never knew they were holding back against Gohan, so it's possible they held back against him, as well.

[Fin]

Yeah, I'm just gonna agree with Kaboom.

Come to think of it, though... which was released first: the manga chapter in which Trunks said that the "present" versions were stronger, or "Trunks: the Story"?

I think he said they were stronger sometime before Cell showed up, so before. "Trunks: The Story" was originally published around the time Cell beat Vegeta unconscious and Trunks stepped up.

[Puto]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how. :P

Gokû was a former Budôkai champion. It's not impossible that the newspaper might have had "FORMER WORLD CHAMPION OF MARTIAL ARTS DEAD" as a headline one day, and Gero might have spotted it.

[Xyex]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how.

Gokû was a former Budôkai champion. It's not impossible that the newspaper might have had "FORMER WORLD CHAMPION OF MARTIAL ARTS DEAD" as a headline one day, and Gero might have spotted it.

Thing is, if he'd known Goku were dead he'd not have used 17 and 18. His entire reason for making them was to kill Goku. With Goku dead there's no longer any need to kill him.

[Dayspring]

Thing is, if he'd known Goku were dead he'd not have used 17 and 18. His entire reason for making them was to kill Goku. With Goku dead there's no longer any need to kill him.

Not necessarily. He made #1-8 and started Cell in order to make the perfect warrior and eventually conquer the world. It's possible he thought he'd reprogrammed them enough, told them to conquer the world, and they killed him.

[dbgtFO]

But he wasn't monitoring them anymore, so he wouldn't possibly know about Goku's death, meaning the androids had the same power in all timelines.

Excellent point. It's possible news reached him somehow, though.

Now I must rack my brain to figure out how.

Gokû was a former Budôkai champion. It's not impossible that the newspaper might have had "FORMER WORLD CHAMPION OF MARTIAL ARTS DEAD" as a headline one day, and Gero might have spotted it.

I always thought that the Z figthers wanted to have nothing to do with the media, so I don't see how any news outlet would ever find out about Goku's death, since the Son's are notable for living secluded from the rest of the world in a little village.

[Dayspring]

Gokû was a former Budôkai champion. It's not impossible that the newspaper might have had "FORMER WORLD CHAMPION OF MARTIAL ARTS DEAD" as a headline one day, and Gero might have spotted it.

I always thought that the Z figthers wanted to have nothing to do with the media, so I don't see how any news outlet would ever find out about Goku's death, since the Son's are notable for living secluded from the rest of the world in a little village.

That's a good point. The only thing I can think of to get around this would be that the other took part in the 24th budokai and thus the announcer asked where he was, but this wouldn't work since the 24th buddokai was about a week prior to the arrival of the androids. Curiouser and curiouser...

[dbgtFO]

Gokû was a former Budôkai champion. It's not impossible that the newspaper might have had "FORMER WORLD CHAMPION OF MARTIAL ARTS DEAD" as a headline one day, and Gero might have spotted it.

I always thought that the Z figthers wanted to have nothing to do with the media, so I don't see how any news outlet would ever find out about Goku's death, since the Son's are notable for living secluded from the rest of the world in a little village.

That's a good point. The only thing I can think of to get around this would be that the other took part in the 24th budokai and thus the announcer asked where he was, but this wouldn't work since the 24th buddokai was about a week prior to the arrival of the androids. Curiouser and curiouser...

You're right the other Z fighters perhaps Yamcha? might have participated since they didn't know of the androids arriving one week later and may have said to the announcer, who can be considered on some level a friend to them, that Goku passed away.
But as you implied that would only give Gero one week to do some finishing work on the androids or whatever he wanted to do with them if he managed to check the newspapers that is, so I still consider it highly unlikely that he knew about Goku's passing.

[the_abberration]

Dr. Gero told Goku that he didn’t spy on him when he was on Namek. However, he never said anything about shutting the cameras off. When Piccolo confronts Cell for the first time, Cell points out there is a camera taking information and sending it to the computer at Gero’s lab. Which Piccolo destroys.

If Dr. Gero has such a mad on for Goku and knows where he lives, couldn’t it be possible that in the timeline where Goku dies, a camera was filming and sent information to the computer. At which point, the computer alerted Dr. Gero to the incident?

That would still leave six months before the three year timeframe would be up.

[jackjack]

That would still leave six months before the three year timeframe would be up.

More like over two years.

[the_abberration]

That would still leave six months before the three year timeframe would be up.

More like over two years.

I thought Goku died sometime in 766 and the androids showed up in 767. Wouldn't that be approx 6 months?

[jackjack]

According to the daizenshuu, he dies in 764, the same year Trunks shows up, who also states in the manga that he will die "not long from now".