Dragonball Stuff You've Just Realized

[Michsi]

As for the complaints of Goku being too powerful in Z, here's my take on what they might be complaining about. Yes, in the earlier parts, Goku is pretty much the focus, while in the later portions, the other characters get to do more on their own, but that could be part of the "problem." Like ThunderPX just said, in the earlier parts, the main fighting characters were at least on similar ground. But later on it got to the point that Goku had to be less involved in the story in order to ratchet up the drama because only Goku could defeat this threat. Only Goku could save everybody. If Goku was around, the plot would resolve itself immediately. So, yeah, while Goku was made to get out of the way in increasingly contrived ways (and twice in the Freeza arc!), I could see how people would believe that it only served to make him seem even more important and untouchable. Just throwing that possibility out there.

The way I see, I think Goku was purposfully removed from the story not just to make it more dramatic, but to allow other characters their chance in the spotlight. For instance, Krillin has been around since the beginning yet in no other arc is he as useful and active as he is in the Frieza arc.
DB didn't really have moments where it let the other characters shine outside the tournament. Piccolo and Vegeta each had several moments, however due to the fact that we actually see them fail in DBZ (oftentimes spectaculary) gives of the impression that DB was kinder to the supporting characters. So yeah, you could say that these pre Goku fights serve as a build up to Goku's arrival as the only who can defeat X, but I'd still rather see that than have them reduced to sideline commentators from the get go.

[The Time Traveller]

But does it make him...

Strong Bad?

*insert hilarious image of Reacoom with Strong Bad's head*

HAHa! Is that a reference to the nes game:
*snip*

Most likely a Homestar Runner reference.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It may just be me, but I just noticed how similar these chapter title pages are to each other.

[Michsi]

It may just be me, but I just noticed how similar these title pages are to each other.

I don't know if this is just me but those images aren't showing up. Had to copy/paste the links.

Otherwise
I don't really see any resemblance between these two fights.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I don't really see any resemblance between these two fights.

Not the fights, the chapter title pages. Both of them have a young martial artist flying across with a kick, and both of them have images of two characters in the background.

[Rocketman]

DB didn't really have moments where it let the other characters shine outside the tournament.

The tournaments are fully half of DB, though, (and 1/3 of the rest is the Pilaf/training arc when the supporting cast hasn't been really introduced yet) which is why DB looks better.

[Michsi]

I don't really see any resemblance between these two fights.

Not the fights, the chrapter title pages. Both of them have a young martial artist flying across with a kick, and both of them have images of two characters in the background.

No I got that. I was just thinking of why Toriyama would do that. I think I've seen authors use similar title pages on different chapters to draw attention to a relation between said chapters. But it seems to be random here. Either Toriyama was copying himslef or he forgot he already used the idea previously

DB didn't really have moments where it let the other characters shine outside the tournament.

The tournaments are fully half of DB, though, (and 1/3 of the rest is the Pilaf/training arc when the supporting cast hasn't been really introduced yet) which is why DB looks better.

True, but I think the Red Ribbon army arc and the Piccolo arc where longer. Ample time to give something to do to eveybody.
One of the few times I think the anime did better than the manga was when they let Ten try the Mafuba against Daimao. As opposed to having the rice cooker broken. Rendered the entire trainig scenes and build up pointless.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'd say you're both right. The Red Ribbon Army arc is by far the longest arc in the entire series until Freeza. But in an overall sense, the combined tournaments end up being at least as long.

[Rocketman]

Also, consider that when people say "the humans should've got more time/done better", what they really mean is "~TENSHINHAN~ should've got more!", and he's not introduced until after the RRA arc.




MOUNTAIN TRAINING

[Snail]

.

[Snail]

Dragonball Z Movie 13 is much more terrible than I remember.

The film never takes off into any new heights. The divulging in the origins of Future Trunks' sword is needless, and the flashy (albeit, so awesome..) "Ryu-Ken/Dragon Fist" is pulled out of absolutely nowhere. Another thing that irks me: the title of the film, "Dragon Ball Z: Dragon Fist Explosion!! If Gokū Can't Do It, Who Will?". Consequently, an implication that contradicts and challenges Toriyama's intentions with the character of Goku it seems.. The creative team behind this film should have used the opportunity to give 'Z' audiences one last "hurrah"; easter eggs, quips, nods, special moves etc. Instead of a fun sendoff, or a seriously badass take on the finale of DBZ's cinema releases, audiences are given a weak and confused movie. What a waste of incredible animation.

[The Time Traveller]

It may just be me, but I just noticed how similar these title pages are to each other.

I don't know if this is just me but those images aren't showing up. Had to copy/paste the links.

Otherwise
I don't really see any resemblance between these two fights.

I can't see them or copy/paste them since it goes to some admin login page, is there anyone with the sense to not link to another site?

[Godo]

For those who couldn't find out how to watch PD's images, here they are.

[Michsi]

When Goku and the others decided to not use the dragonballs to find Gero and stop him before he gets dangerous, they not only condemn several people to die horrible deaths ( even if they would be brought back to life) but they might have also condemned 17 and 18, or their human counterparts, to fall into Gero's hands and basically get killed.

I believe it's implied that Gero started working on "Cell" before he started working on the androids (he started gathering cells for this project during the fight against Vegeta and stopped after the Fieza's defeat on earth ) and if the numbers are anything to go by 17 and 18 are most probably recent projects and therefore it's highly likely that they were created during that three year time span. While we don't really know anything in detail about their creation, we do know they were human once and I don't think anybody would want to be experimented on. I think it was also implied by 18 that they had been misstreated by Dr. Gero. They could have been spared....

That is if I'm not missing anything here.

[roidrage]

When Goku and the others decided to not use the dragonballs to find Gero and stop him before he gets dangerous, they not only condemn several people to die horrible deaths ( even if they would be brought back to life) but they might have also condemned 17 and 18, or their human counterparts, to fall into Gero's hands and basically get killed.

I believe it's implied that Gero started working on "Cell" before he started working on the androids (he started gathering cells for this project during the fight against Vegeta and stopped after the Fieza's defeat on earth ) and if the numbers are anything to go by 17 and 18 are most probably recent projects and therefore it's highly likely that they were created during that three year time span. While we don't really know anything in detail about their creation, we do know they were human once and I don't think anybody would want to be experimented on. I think it was also implied by 18 that they had been misstreated by Dr. Gero. They could have been spared....

That is if I'm not missing anything here.

I don't know if you're missing anything, but you seem to be assuming a lot. There's no timeframe as to exactly how long 17 and 18 were in stasis, or how long ago they were created. I always assumed that they were built first as ultimately "add-ons" for Cell that could also be minions. When they rebelled, Gero put them in suspended animation and created 19, who was always loyal to him. I could be wrong; the text isn't very specific, IIRC.

[Cipher]

When Goku and the others decided to not use the dragonballs to find Gero and stop him before he gets dangerous, they not only condemn several people to die horrible deaths ( even if they would be brought back to life) but they might have also condemned 17 and 18, or their human counterparts, to fall into Gero's hands and basically get killed.

Actually, none of the inhabitants of the island where they first met No. 19 and 20 were revived.

The beginning of the Android arc is where Goku's need for strong opponents stops being endearing and is cemented as a full-on character flaw. I've written about it in other threads, but it's pretty easy to track Goku's progression into a more cavalier and morally ambiguous character as the series progresses.

[Gaffer Tape]

It's not just Goku. Bulma, Yamucha, and Kuririn (although the latter almost immediately switches sides when pushed) are the only three present (although since Pu'ar and Chaozu don't really have anything to say on the matter, maybe I shouldn't speak for them either) who didn't appear to have taken hold of the idiot ball during that conversation. Toriyama bends over backwards giving them excuse after excuse for why it has to be this way, when it's really just a lame justification for the plot and makes everyone look either totally selfish or totally stupid. I always amuse myself by imagining what Trunks's face would look like if he had been present for this conversation and realized he had just left the fate of the earth in the hands of these sociopaths. Fortunately, by the time Cell comes around, everyone except for Vegeta seems to have gained a few dozen IQ points.

[Rocketman]

Well, Vegeta is a genocidal sociopath with no attachments to Earth, so he's at least in-character.

[roidrage]

It's not just Goku. Bulma, Yamucha, and Kuririn (although the latter almost immediately switches sides when pushed) are the only three present (although since Pu'ar and Chaozu don't really have anything to say on the matter, maybe I shouldn't speak for them either) who didn't appear to have taken hold of the idiot ball during that conversation. Toriyama bends over backwards giving them excuse after excuse for why it has to be this way, when it's really just a lame justification for the plot and makes everyone look either totally selfish or totally stupid. I always amuse myself by imagining what Trunks's face would look like if he had been present for this conversation and realized he had just left the fate of the earth in the hands of these sociopaths. Fortunately, by the time Cell comes around, everyone except for Vegeta seems to have gained a few dozen IQ points.

It wouldn't have been a problem if they'd just revived them with the Dragon Balls after defeating Cell, but no; Kuririn screws every one of those people over by wishing for Shenlong to take the bombs out of 17 and 18's bodies, even though they could have done that anyway at Capsule Corp like with 16 and used the second wish to bring the citizens back to life.

[Gaffer Tape]

And so they would come back to life in a desolate crater. Their homes, their businesses, all their worldly possessions, everything they ever worked for in their lives would be gone. All of which could have been avoided if the people to whom Trunks gave his earth-shattering future revelations to hadn't been, "Oooooooooh! I's gonna get in strong fights and prove my strength, lolz!"

But, yes, I agree that Kuririn's wish was pretty damned stupid and useless.