Current-Gen Spike Games compared to Budokai Tenkaichi 3

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

What are we using as a standard of garbage? The original Sparking? Because that's the only non-HD game I can think of that I'd take serious quality issue with, as opposed to everything else being good distractions for that they're worth (I still play Budokai 2 Gamecube, pour example).

In the grand scheme of things I'm comparing these games to every other game available. I mean I don't have money to burn away on everything I love so when it comes down to how I'm going to spend my fun money it's Dragonball or:

Uncharted 3
Skyrim
Batman: Arkham City
Gears of War 3
Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One
Dark Souls
Skyward Swords

$60 dollars is $60 no matter how you slice it; and comparatively these [Dragonball] games are garbage to those [above].

Now even if we were to compare just Dragonball games...these current gen games don't even live up to the games from the PS2 days. I mean it's not fun when you are sitting down going "this is fun but it would be cool if I could play as so-in-so like in BT3" or "That looks nice; still wish it looked as good as Burst Limit (yes I know not a PS2 game but still the best looking game to date IMO)" or "wow this game would be great if it had a tournament mode..." Do you guys see where I'm getting at. The experience and fun is lost when all you can do is sit there and know a game you already own (and spent less money on) did something better then the game you just bought. That's how I know it's garbage.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

What are we using as a standard of garbage? The original Sparking? Because that's the only non-HD game I can think of that I'd take serious quality issue with, as opposed to everything else being good distractions for that they're worth (I still play Budokai 2 Gamecube, pour example).

Now even if we were to compare just Dragonball games...these current gen games don't even live up to the games from the PS2 days. I mean it's not fun when you are sitting down going "this is fun but it would be cool if I could play as so-in-so like in BT3" or "That looks nice; still wish it looked as good as Burst Limit (yes I know not a PS2 game but still the best looking game to date IMO)" or "wow this game would be great if it had a tournament mode..." Do you guys see where I'm getting at. The experience and fun is lost when all you can do is sit there and know a game you already own (and spent less money on) did something better then the game you just bought. That's how I know it's garbage.

So it just comes back down to Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 3 outdoing the HD games again? Well I deserved that, that question was pretty circular.

But when has Dragon Ball ever really held up against highly-rated games in general? Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 2/3 in retrospect (Given the state of the PS2 by the latter two's release) maybe? Maybe it's just the way my wallet talks, but the last Dragon Ball game I actually bought new (or was purchased new on my behalf) was Buu's Fury. I know it's an annual franchise so I don't prioritize buying it full price, nor value the games enough to get them on release, and I don't think Dragon Ball will ever reach that level for me until they either stop being annual games or we get another third game that effectively got three years of development.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

But when has Dragon Ball ever really held up against highly-rated games in general? Budokai 3 and Tenkaichi 2/3 in retrospect (Given the state of the PS2 by the latter two's release) maybe? Maybe it's just the way my wallet talks, but the last Dragon Ball game I actually bought new (or was purchased new on my behalf) was Buu's Fury. I know it's an annual franchise so I don't prioritize buying it full price, nor value the games enough to get them on release, and I don't think Dragon Ball will ever reach that level for me until they either stop being annual games or we get another third game that effectively got three years of development.

I got all three Budokai games new on the grounds that they were the first big Dragonball games available in the US. Before Budokai, I competed in every Becket(the magazine) contest that involved Final Bought for Playstation. Also, the timing of the games were perfect with the US releases of the show. Budokai came out at the end of the Cell arc and beginning of the Buu arc. Two came out during the Buu arc's prime and Budokai 3(my personal favorite) came out just before GT.

After that, I think BT3 was worth it's $60 price point; sure BT2's story mode was better but when it comes to sheer content I think BT3 hit the nail on the head; not to mention the fighting mechanics were at it's peek. Still, I have to say, I can't stand Split screen multiplayer; it's unnatural to me. In my opinion split screen doesn't belong anywhere near a fighting game, but that's a rant for another time.

I just want a solid, new game. It doesn't have to be perfect just...Fun.

[mysticboy]

Uncharted 3
Skyrim
Batman: Arkham City
Gears of War 3
Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One
Dark Souls
Skyward Swords

$60 dollars is $60 no matter how you slice it; and comparatively these [Dragonball] games are garbage to those [above].

Get it. It's worth every penny.
While I love every DB game that I've played, I do agree that they can't compare to every other game out there.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Oh I know it is...


Speaking of Batman; Those games are a perfect example of the love and care Dragonball needs. There was a time before Arkham Asylum when Batman struggled to make any sort of significant dent into the mainstream media when it came to video games. It was because those games struggled to stay on par with other games of the decades. Suddenly Arkham Asylum comes along and proves that a licensed franchise game can compete with the "big boys." Dragonball needs a developer like Edios; where they know and love the franchise (like Spike did...it's safe to say they knew Dragonball) but also know how to cater to the gaming crowed.

I can't blame Spike for trying but I can't say they are cut out for the job anymore. I'm happy this was their last game and who knows maybe this rumored new development team can do something better.

[DonieZ]

BT1; terrible, it's so bad that even as a kid I could tell (when you're a kid you don't really notice or care as much as when you're older, one of my theories as to why BT3 is overrated as hell)
BT2; back then I think I enjoyed it, but if I bought it brand new now on the PS3 with updated graphics, I do not believe I would like it all that much. T'was a decent game.
BT3; cannot deny that it favours in the fact that it has the best fan service to a DBZ game since whenever, however the gameplay and the game itself is vastly overrated, and the defense system is broken. Has a fighting system which grants a lot of fun especially when you're young, however is favoured by casuals, whereas hardcore fighter's would "hate" it (trust me, I know some). Overall it is one of the most overrated DBZ games created.
RB1; quite a decent attempt. Fighting system was decent and had potential if adapted upon (unfortunately never happened), the story was alright and granted some re-playability despite it becoming repetitive. Had other stuff to do and had a decent theme. Raging Blast 1 even if not great was satisfying, I can honestly say I was happy and satisfied with buying it. This only set my hopes for the next game however...
RB2; This was my most dissapointing DBZ game to date. I was outright dissapointed, that's the best word I find to use. Maybe it's because I expected too much? I don't know.. I won't say it was the worst (Tenkaichi 1 may rank top there?), but IMO it was terrible. It did not use RB1's potential, instead adding follow-ups for every character. They basically added a bucket load of character's who played the exact same, apart from slightly different imputs for some character's.
I won't even mention UT...
Well that's what I think. As I've gotten older my expectation and demand has risen, and this may affect the critiscism I give, but it makes sense. You get to the age when you realise what you're spending your money on. This year was the first that I didn't blindly spend my money on a DBZ game knowing it was coming out.

Another thing, I don't get why we have to lower the standards for DBZ games just because they are DBZ games. When talking about DBZ games generally we say they are alright or whatever, but when you bring up other games which are doing really well and are at the top of the charts, we are able to say DBZ is garbage compared to them. So, this means that we have learnt to deal with not-so-good DBZ games? Is that it? No, I'll class DBZ games on the same degree as I'd class Uncharted or Arkham Asylum, or any of those other games. So yeah DBZ games have been trash for many years.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Another thing, I don't get why we have to lower the standards for DBZ games just because they are DBZ games...

We shouldn't; and that's the problem. As long as there are people with this mindset, willing to shrug it off because it's just a DBZ game. Nothing is going to change.

I know I'm only one person but I've been dissatisfied with these current games; and to protest I haven't bought any of the new titles. I'm only a small dent, but given the sales records I'd say it's safe to say I'm not the only one.

[Haji]

Yeah i have not liked any of the last DBZ games. I thought RB1 was going to be good, yeah, was i wrong. I am still glad to this day i only payed 40$ for that game. I didn't buy RB2(might when it's under 15-20$) and i'm not going to buy UT. It is a shame what DBZ games are coming to. You would think with RB1 it would have been like T3 but better and more content. Not two steps back. That game is like T1 all over again just HD. I don't get that. With T3 the truly hit they're peek. It's like the movie Akira, I don't think they could do that again. But just like Akira, B3 and T3 are timeless. I can also still enjoy the Super Butouden games!

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Another thing, I don't get why we have to lower the standards for DBZ games just because they are DBZ games...

We shouldn't; and that's the problem. As long as there are people with this mindset, willing to shrug it off because it's just a DBZ game. Nothing is going to change.

And nothing will change so long as these games are annual and the "Get it right the third time around" factor keeps getting canned (Unless we get another Tenkaichi 2). I wish this was something we could protest; Bamco is actually capable of listening to fans form time to time, but if Shueshia's the problem it really is out of our hands.

But to level with you, I'm not buying Nintendo new ever again unless the Rainfall games make to Wii in the States next year. That is a case where I can give my infinitesimal finger to the man.

[Leotaku]

Another thing, I don't get why we have to lower the standards for DBZ games just because they are DBZ games. When talking about DBZ games generally we say they are alright or whatever, but when you bring up other games which are doing really well and are at the top of the charts, we are able to say DBZ is garbage compared to them. So, this means that we have learnt to deal with not-so-good DBZ games? Is that it? No, I'll class DBZ games on the same degree as I'd class Uncharted or Arkham Asylum, or any of those other games.

I can only speak for myself; I've never lowered my standards for a DragonBall game just because it's DragonBall. Whatever I've enjoyed of the games, I've genuinely enjoyed them. Whatever I've hated of the games, I've genuinely hated. There have been some games based on anime or manga that I've really enjoyed (such as Ghost in the Shell, Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3, and Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage) despite not being familiar with the license. So I know that licensed games can be fun without bias and I won't lower my standards for a DragonBall game. My brother has enjoyed a couple of the DragonBall games I showed him (Super DragonBall Z and Tenkaichi 3, though he didn't particularly like Budokai 3), and he isn't that familiar with the series.

The thing with directly comparing the Spike games to other non-DragonBall games though is that they play fairly uniquely being the third-person, one-on-one, roaming arena fighting games they are. I don't know of many other games that are like this and I wouldn't compare two games from completely different genres. Uncharted and Arkham aren't one-on-one fighting games. I've heard Virtual-On and Zone of the Enders are similar to the Spike DragonBall games, but I've never played them. The closest other thing I've ever played was War of the Monsters.

So personally, even if I did hate any of the Spike games, I can't say they're garbage compared to any other games but the other Spike games.

[DonieZ]

Another thing, I don't get why we have to lower the standards for DBZ games just because they are DBZ games. When talking about DBZ games generally we say they are alright or whatever, but when you bring up other games which are doing really well and are at the top of the charts, we are able to say DBZ is garbage compared to them. So, this means that we have learnt to deal with not-so-good DBZ games? Is that it? No, I'll class DBZ games on the same degree as I'd class Uncharted or Arkham Asylum, or any of those other games.

I can only speak for myself; I've never lowered my standards for a DragonBall game just because it's DragonBall. Whatever I've enjoyed of the games, I've genuinely enjoyed them. Whatever I've hated of the games, I've genuinely hated. There have been some games based on anime or manga that I've really enjoyed (such as Ghost in the Shell, Naruto: Ultimate Ninja 3, and Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage) despite not being familiar with the license. So I know that licensed games can be fun without bias and I won't lower my standards for a DragonBall game. My brother has enjoyed a couple of the DragonBall games I showed him (Super DragonBall Z and Tenkaichi 3, though he didn't particularly like Budokai 3), and he isn't that familiar with the series.

The thing with directly comparing the Spike games to other non-DragonBall games though is that they play fairly uniquely being the third-person, one-on-one, roaming arena fighting games they are. I don't know of many other games that are like this and I wouldn't compare two games from completely different genres. Uncharted and Arkham aren't one-on-one fighting games. I've heard Virtual-On and Zone of the Enders are similar to the Spike DragonBall games, but I've never played them. The closest other thing I've ever played was War of the Monsters.

So personally, even if I did hate any of the Spike games, I can't say they're garbage compared to any other games but the other Spike games.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But when you look at it from a standing view of "Which game would I rather buy" or "Which game is actually rather worth the money" then even genre differences can be overlooked. Are DBZ games really all that great for the genre they are enrolling as? Fighting games. I'm not sure whether many of Spike's games can be apprecaited as "fighting" games, and I doubt are seen as such to many people not fans or unfamiliar to the franchise. And some may go and say that these aren't really your average fighter's, but really DBZ is fighting and that's what the devs are going for; so we have to treat as such.

And even more than it simply being a fighter. I don't think Spike's current system truly displays how character's fought. I wana be able to stretch all my hits with Kid Buu if I wish, and whatever other unique properties character's had. If you look at BL, that actually looks visually stunning and the attacks look like shiz character's did.

Spike need to drop the smash attack system. If they are gonna listen to one thing, listen to this...

[mysticboy]

The closest other thing I've ever played was War of the Monsters.

So personally, even if I did hate any of the Spike games, I can't say they're garbage compared to any other games but the other Spike games.

Have you played Ultimate Ninja Storm, The Bouncer, or any of the WWE games? Those, along with War of the Monsters (great game BTW wish there was a sequel), are examples of open-arena fighters similar to Spike's games.

[Saimaroimaru]

The closest other thing I've ever played was War of the Monsters.

So personally, even if I did hate any of the Spike games, I can't say they're garbage compared to any other games but the other Spike games.

Have you played Ultimate Ninja Storm, The Bouncer, or any of the WWE games? Those, along with War of the Monsters (great game BTW wish there was a sequel), are examples of open-arena fighters similar to Spike's games.

The devs admitted they were using the tenkaichi free roam as inspiration for the battle system for the storm series. Free roam can be done "right" Spike needs more time and money.

[InfernalVegito]

The closest other thing I've ever played was War of the Monsters.

So personally, even if I did hate any of the Spike games, I can't say they're garbage compared to any other games but the other Spike games.

Have you played Ultimate Ninja Storm, The Bouncer, or any of the WWE games? Those, along with War of the Monsters (great game BTW wish there was a sequel), are examples of open-arena fighters similar to Spike's games.

The devs admitted they were using the tenkaichi free roam as inspiration for the battle system for the storm series. Free roam can be done "right" Spike needs more time and money.

This. Tenkaichi's free roaming was good. It was fast paced and a real thrill to play. And therefore it really aggravates me that Spike doesn't get the best circumstances to use their full potential.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I don't mind the free roaming aspect of the Tenkaichi games but I can't stress this enough, they need to come up with a better solution then split screen. I have no problem playing the game online or with one player battles but the second I'm sitting on the couch with my friends it gets...weird. I'd like to see the next game get handled the way Super DBZ was handled. It had that open world feel but it was accustomed to work without split screen; I guess you can think of it like those wrestling games(haven't played since it was still called WWF).


All crazy combos aside, I think Super DBZ hit the nail on the head as far as how the stages should feel. They would just need to bring in lighting fast pacing and easy to learn hard to master combo system that came with the budokai and early tenkaichi games.

[mysticboy]

I don't mind the free roaming aspect of the Tenkaichi games but I can't stress this enough, they need to come up with a better solution then split screen. I have no problem playing the game online or with one player battles but the second I'm sitting on the couch with my friends it gets...weird. I'd like to see the next game get handled the way Super DBZ was handled. It had that open world feel but it was accustomed to work without split screen; I guess you can think of it like those wrestling games(haven't played since it was still called WWF).

They could put the camera in a 2-D perspective or zoom out, but the battlefields are so large, you could loose track of your character. IMO, split screen is fine. Just have the screens merge when the characters get close.

[DonieZ]

Meh, yeah the "free-roam" in Tenkaichi was alright, but I don't think it was all that good. I mean, when you jump it looks so robotic and generic. Where's the fancy acrobatic-like jumping for example Ultimate Ninja storm has? DBZ character's have the capability to move like that and much more. I think the standards really need to be risen for DBZ. I want to be able to leap in to the air in a fancy like manner, then spring off numerous obstacles at will. An all new-series of DBZ games needs to be created. The generic formula is getting old.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The closest other thing I've ever played was War of the Monsters.

So personally, even if I did hate any of the Spike games, I can't say they're garbage compared to any other games but the other Spike games.

Have you played Ultimate Ninja Storm, The Bouncer, or any of the WWE games? Those, along with War of the Monsters (great game BTW wish there was a sequel), are examples of open-arena fighters similar to Spike's games.

The problem with the War of the Monsters (PS2 gem if there ever was one) analogy is that WotM isn't fast paced.

[InfernalVegito]

Meh, yeah the "free-roam" in Tenkaichi was alright, but I don't think it was all that good. I mean, when you jump it looks so robotic and generic. Where's the fancy acrobatic-like jumping for example Ultimate Ninja storm has? DBZ character's have the capability to move like that and much more.

That's because in the last games the characters are constantly levitating or flying when you move them.

[DonieZ]

That's not an excuse.