Do the die-hards really hate GT?

[Rory]

I think most people feel like they have to not only hate GT but like Z and love the original DB just so they can seem like a "true" Dragon Ball fan. That's also the reason why I think there are so many Broly haters and Freeza saga lovers out there. I started noticing the american GT hate some where around 07 or 08 so I guess some big shot from youtube or whatever made it known to people that you're not a "true" DBZ fan if you even like GT in the slightest and since then the word just spread.

Me Personally, I like GT, I find it watchable and I especially like playing with the characters and forms in the video games. What I don't like is that a lot of the fights were just Goku and co firing ki blast barrages at each other.

That's cool and all, but GT is a poor show. Bad pacing, huge plot holes and sub-par story... the art tends to suck more often than not.
Also, Broli's a one trick pony, and Freeza's an interesting character.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

huge plot holes

Like?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Also, Broli's a one trick pony, and Freeza's an interesting character.

Just as an off-topic side-note, there's no real reason to hate Broli, since, when you think about it, he wasn't any worse than most of the other movie villains. It's just that many of the Broli fanboys and video games overrate him, causing many fans that barely gave him a second look to hate him just by association. It's gotten to the point that the Broli haters annoy me more than the Broli fanboys, because at least with the latter, I can just avoid them by not reading the comments on YouTube videos about Broli, or stupid battle power-obsessed forums. But here, and in other places, it's just as bad as the hatred-for-Justin-Bieber ("hate" being a word used far too often, and unacceptable to use in regard to a teenage boy who hasn't done anything to hurt you personally and is no more deserving of criticism than any of the other pop hacks out there) bandwagon that everyone jumps on.

For what it's worth, I always liked him representing the concept of the "true" Legendary Super Saiyan, bringing it back to the fore with someone that appropriately fitted the legend. And his backstory was relatively interesting. If people want to complain that he held a grudge against Gokuu just because he cried, annoying him, when they were both babies, well...Broli's insane. That's his shtick. Of course he'd be like that. Of course he beats up Gokuu and co. for no good reason other than "You pissed me off with your crying when we were babies. Oh, and I like to beat people up."

Anyway, not targeting you personally, and what you said wasn't even that inflammatory, but I just felt like saying it.

[Saiga]

huge plot holes

Like?

Pretty much everything that happens.

[Rory]

Just as an off-topic side-note, there's no real reason to hate Broli, since, when you think about it, he wasn't any worse than most of the other movie villains. It's just that many of the Broli fanboys and video games overrate him, causing many fans that barely gave him a second look to hate him just by association. It's gotten to the point that the Broli haters annoy me more than the Broli fanboys, because at least with the latter, I can just avoid them by not reading the comments on YouTube videos about Broli, or stupid battle power-obsessed forums.

I don't hate Broli, I find it hard hate anything Dragon Ball related these days (apart from the Sparking! series of course, but I just keep that up for old times sake ). I don't see as many Broli fanboy's as I used to, so I can't even be bothered by that.... maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. I think it's the massive amount of over-exposure he had during the early 2000's (that, and y'know, 3 movies), he left a bad taste in my mouth.

For what it's worth, I always liked him representing the concept of the "true" Legendary Super Saiyan, bringing it back to the fore with someone that appropriately fitted the legend. And his backstory was relatively interesting. If people want to complain that he held a grudge against Gokuu just because he cried, annoying him, when they were both babies, well...Broli's insane. That's his shtick. Of course he'd be like that. Of course he beats up Gokuu and co. for no good reason other than "You pissed me off with your crying when we were babies. Oh, and I like to beat people up."

Insanity aside, he shouldn't be able to remember that, or know his (Gokuu's) name, as he was a baby. It just really feels like they were stretching for something with this one.
The "Legendary Super Saiyan" thing always bugged me, but that's only 'cause I was (and still am) a super Gokuu fanboy, so I always like to think he's "The Legend".

Anyway, not targeting you personally, and what you said wasn't even that inflammatory, but I just felt like saying it.

Hey, I gave my opinion, and you gave yours! That's what these forums are all about!

[Nex Carnifex]

huge plot holes

Like?

Pretty much the entire intelligence/power showing of Goku, Trunks and Pan in the first arc. Then the rest of the series rarely shows them up to par to how powerful they should be at this point. If Kid Buu could casually blast planets into dust at rapid speeds by the end of Z, then by the end of GT blowing up a planet DEFINITELY should not be a big deal and require a minute of talking and charging (Omega Shenron's minus energy ball). Also, although you can't necessarily call it a plot hole, Goku's fight with Ledgic pretty much confirmed some random stupid looking metro sexual alien with no reason to be strong whatsoever somehow is stronger than Perfect Cell, who could destroy a Solar System. It's shit like that that makes GT utterly ridiculous, they simply didn't continue the story sensibly. It wasn't entertaining either, so really it just shouldn't exist, but unfortunately it does.

[Bussani]

Why is it that a lot of people who like GT assume that the only reason people don't feel the same way as them is that they're choosing to dislike it to seem like "real fans"? Is it really so hard to believe that there are people who actually don't like the show?

I feel like people unjustifiably give GT a bad rap. I feel like it's a much better anime than most others that I've seen. I mean I'm not an anime guy, not a huge fan of it, but I feel like it's a lot better than, say, Inuyasha or Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon or other really popular animes. I just think that because it's not as good as Z or because it wasn't made by Akira Toriyama, people automatically "hate" it. I have a strong feeling that if it was written by Toriyama, people would not say what they do about it. And I definitely feel that if it was a stand-alone anime that had different character names/designs and it centered around...5 golden spheres as opposed to 7 Dragon Balls, that it could have been a huge hit, actually.

I completely disagree. In my opinion, the fact that it's a Dragon Ball show with Dragon Ball characters is the only reason it hasn't faded into obscurity. If it turned out Toriyama was 100% responsible for the show, that wouldn't fix its problems.

[Necrosaber]

huge plot holes

Like?

Pretty much the entire intelligence/power showing of Goku, Trunks and Pan in the first arc. Then the rest of the series rarely shows them up to par to how powerful they should be at this point. If Kid Buu could casually blast planets into dust at rapid speeds by the end of Z, then by the end of GT blowing up a planet DEFINITELY should not be a big deal and require a minute of talking and charging (Omega Shenron's minus energy ball). Also, although you can't necessarily call it a plot hole, Goku's fight with Ledgic pretty much confirmed some random stupid looking metro sexual alien with no reason to be strong whatsoever somehow is stronger than Perfect Cell, who could destroy a Solar System. It's shit like that that makes GT utterly ridiculous, they simply didn't continue the story sensibly. It wasn't entertaining either, so really it just shouldn't exist, but unfortunately it does.

None of those are really plot holes..just more of things you don't care for and personally find dumb for whatever reason. Nitpicks like Omega Shenron's attack could be said about any villain in the series. (and that example you used can be found in Z all the time)

To say GT is not without flows would be a bit of a stretch, but some people really become venomous about the subject. I've seen people argue to death that Vegeta having a mustache and shorter hair is another GT plothole..which is just flat out ridiculous if you just think about it for a second.

[Saimaroimaru]

I actually like the idea of GT. I like the continuation of the story and seeing how the characters have grown over time. I don't analyze all of the "plot holes" and inconsistencies of it, I just sit back and enjoy the continuation of the characters that I came to love.

I feel like people unjustifiably give GT a bad rap. I feel like it's a much better anime than most others that I've seen. I mean I'm not an anime guy, not a huge fan of it, but I feel like it's a lot better than, say, Inuyasha or Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon or other really popular animes. I just think that because it's not as good as Z or because it wasn't made by Akira Toriyama, people automatically "hate" it. I have a strong feeling that if it was written by Toriyama, people would not say what they do about it. And I definitely feel that if it was a stand-alone anime that had different character names/designs and it centered around...5 golden spheres as opposed to 7 Dragon Balls, that it could have been a huge hit, actually.

So basically you if dislike GT your a nostalgia fan? Can people actually dislike it without someone throwing the nostalgia card for once? GT was boring for most of the part. It was boring until the Shadow Dragon saga, even that had its problems. Pokemon was never meant to be a deep or great story driven anime, it is a gaming franchise that has become very popular over the years, even if the children-love-it to death dynamic has died down. Inuyasha and Yugioh; preferences and opinions.

If GT was a standalone anime then I would rate it as one of the most boring standalone animes in existence with unexplained power ups. Super Saiyan 4? Can we explain what Super Saiyan 1,2,3 is please? Whats this about Buu and Uub once being one being? Piccolo and Kami being one, who is this Kami? I could go on and on. For Gt to be a standalone anime without a bunch of plot holes and more unexplained questions than either DB or DBGT combined(not really), it would have to be rewritten from the ground up. So many things in Gt are possible or believable because it had DB and DBZ as a backdrop even if it handles those things badly.

I don't totality hate it, but I am not gonna pretend like its better than DBZ which unto itself has its own host of problems. DragonBall GT tried to be a space exploration anime, that was boring. They went back to the beat em up/power up to the ninth DBZ formula; boring until the last Saga that even it had power scaling problem until it remembered the fusion dance. Technically nostalgic ending but not as good as the one I mentioned before.

Gt tried to do a marriage of DB/Z and failed in my opinion. It just happens to be for one reason or another a majority thinks so as well.

If Akira Toriyama really did write GT then I see why he keeps to the artistic side of the Dragon Quest/Warrior series.

[Mountain]

I suppose I consider myself a fairly die-hard Dragon Ball fan, though I don't go out of my way to hate anything series-related, per se. However, I feel roughly the same way about GT as I do Scooby-Doo; I don't despise it, nor do I love it... it's just there. GT really isn't my thing, so I give it very little thought. It's trendy to love it for the wrong reasons, and it's trendy to hate it for the wrong reasons. Me? I just really do not care, either way. It's rather difficult to judge something that I can't stay awake through, so I suppose that about sums it up.

[Rory]

To say GT is not without flows would be a bit of a stretch, but some people really become venomous about the subject. I've seen people argue to death that Vegeta having a mustache and shorter hair is another GT plothole..which is just flat out ridiculous if you just think about it for a second.

Here's what I can come up with, here we go; Black Star Balls should not exist after God merged with Piccolo.
The Dragon Radar was used to find the balls... hey, hey GT, why didn't that signal get picked up before?
Beings in far-off planets able to match the heroes of the Dragon Ball universe after the Boo saga (this is bullshit, whether you call it a plot-hole or not).
Gohan transforms into a Super Saiyan post his Rou Kai power-up (he lost it 'cause he doesn't train does not sit well with me).
There's wild power inconsistencies, such as child -Gokuu punching Super #17 across the planet (while he couldn't hurt him in Super Saiyan 4) and child Gokuu toying with Freeza and Cell in base (come on, "he got stronger" is pretty questionable here).
Vegeta's 'stache is kind of a plot-hole, but hey, Nappa had hair in the Bardock special, so it's not exactly a huge one.
Characters flat-out idiocy might not be a plot-hole, but Trunks and Goten not fusing... yet talking about the awesome power of fusion is a pretty damn big plot mess up to me.
Kuririn was revived with Earth's Dragon Balls.... again, yeah, that shouldn't be able to happen.
Oob wears headgear in the Tenka-ichi Budokai.
Artificial Humans in hell (this one doesn't really bother me as much, but still, any hole's a goal).

[Necrosaber]

To say GT is not without flaws would be a bit of a stretch, but some people really become venomous about the subject. I've seen people argue to death that Vegeta having a mustache and shorter hair is another GT plothole..which is just flat out ridiculous if you just think about it for a second.

Here's what I can come up with, here we go; Black Star Balls should not exist after God merged with Piccolo.
The Dragon Radar was used to find the balls... hey, hey GT, why didn't that signal get picked up before?
Beings in far-off planets able to match the heroes of the Dragon Ball universe after the Boo saga (this is bullshit, whether you call it a plot-hole or not).
Gohan transforms into a Super Saiyan post his Rou Kai power-up (he lost it 'cause he doesn't train does not sit well with me).
There's wild power inconsistencies, such as child -Gokuu punching Super #17 across the planet (while he couldn't hurt him in Super Saiyan 4) and child Gokuu toying with Freeza and Cell in base (come on, "he got stronger" is pretty questionable here).
Vegeta's 'stache is kind of a plot-hole, but hey, Nappa had hair in the Bardock special, so it's not exactly a huge one.
Characters flat-out idiocy might not be a plot-hole, but Trunks and Goten not fusing... yet talking about the awesome power of fusion is a pretty damn big plot mess up to me.
Kuririn was revived with Earth's Dragon Balls.... again, yeah, that shouldn't be able to happen.
Oob wears headgear in the Tenka-ichi Budokai.
Artificial Humans in hell (this one doesn't really bother me as much, but still, any hole's a goal).

I wasn't arguing that there weren't inconsistencies, in fact I said to say it's without flaws is a stretch.

To some of those, I just can't see how Vegeta having a mustache is any bit of a plothole. King Vegeta had a full goatee and so did Nappa. Doubt they were born with that.

I don't really see how it's unbelievable for Goku to get that much stronger in that long length of time since he last fought them. But that's just going to be completely based on opinion there.

Them not fusing is not a plothole, but definitely stupid. Though, given their obvious slack in training, I doubt it would've done any good.

Kuririn being rezzed was a special request from Goku since he was leaving them.

[Super Sayian Prime]

GT is wasted potential. Good ideas, but bad execution. Maybe next time (?) Toei.

[Hellspawn28]

Kuririn was revived with Earth's Dragon Balls.... again, yeah, that shouldn't be able to happen.

I always guess that after the Shadow Dragons were destroy that Shenron was able to give out a rule free wish with the negative energy gone inside the Dragon Balls?

[Nikkolas]

How was Freeza not a one trick pony?

Transform
Transform
Transform

I found him extraordinary dull since even Super Buu could think u plans and make his powerups interesting by working for them. Cell of course did the same. Freeza would just yank more power out of his ass whenever he was losing or fighting evenly.

And on-topic, I consider myself a pretty serious DB fan. My opinion on GT is that it's utterly forgettable trash. They were obviously trying to rekindle the old DB Magic (especially in the Lost Episodes or whatever) but they failed spectacularly.

Baby was not a very interesting villain.
Super 17 was not a very interesting villain.

The Shadow Dragons are about the only thing that I can honestly say is a great idea from GT. The Dragonballs had become the absolute bane of Dragonball. They turned the show into a atmosphereless joke.
So how about we finally show there are repercussions for wanton abuse of plot devices?
(Now if only they could have worked in a way to punish the DB characters for every time they used a Senzu Bean....but I guess that's wishing for too much)

Unfortunately Teoi took this genuinely good idea and ruined it. Every Dragon except three of them were jokes.

Something else I liked about GT was Pan. Of course (again) they took something cool and failed to do anything with it. She should have been a Super Saiyan, she should have fought more and actually done something, and she shouldn't have been used as a damsel plot device for Goku.

Actually, that is probably the biggest flaw with GT. I have not seen many of the DBZ movies but GT must be a good example of the legendary "Teoi Goku". He not only overshadowed every other fighter, he utterly eclipsed them. They were all even more useless than in Z.

No wait, I'm remembering one thing I did kinda like about GT. It ended with Vegeta being near the top of the power ladder. At the end of Z Vegeta wasn't even in the Top 5 and I always kinda resented that.

[Saiga]

As much as I like Vegeta I'd rather he had a reason to be towards the top of the power ladder, in GT he was inexplicably stronger than Gohan.

Also I actually don't like the idea of the Shadow Dragons - because it turns the Namekians into massive dicks for not warning anybody about the overuse of the Dragon Balls.

[Bussani]

Also I actually don't like the idea of the Shadow Dragons - because it turns the Namekians into massive dicks for not warning anybody about the overuse of the Dragon Balls.

Maybe they didn't know. It's probably never happened before.

[Saiga]

Also I actually don't like the idea of the Shadow Dragons - because it turns the Namekians into massive dicks for not warning anybody about the overuse of the Dragon Balls.

Maybe they didn't know. It's probably never happened before.

They created the goddamn things, they should know.

[Bussani]

Also I actually don't like the idea of the Shadow Dragons - because it turns the Namekians into massive dicks for not warning anybody about the overuse of the Dragon Balls.

Maybe they didn't know. It's probably never happened before.

They created the goddamn things, they should know.

I've always felt that's like expecting the inventor of the automobile engine to know that cars would one day contribute to climate change. You can't predict every little outcome--especially when your creation ends up being used in ways you never planned for.

[SuppaSaiyanNerd]

It's not like the Namekians trapped the dragons there, so how should they know?