Roshi and the Moon

[GS7X7]

Let's say that, for some reason, the moon we have just suddenly disappeared or got blown up.

How would that effect us on earth?

[shonenhikada]

Let's say that, for some reason, the moon we have just suddenly disappeared or got blown up.

How would that effect us on earth?

Sea levels will rise and submerge at least one island.

[The Tori-bot]

Weremen would be stuck in their wolf forms.

[samuraix123]

Weremen would be stuck in their wolf forms.

Best comment ever haha No seriously there would be a huge die off of plants and stuff

[CaBrPi]

The Earth's axial tilt will increase until seasons as we know them disappear, plunging one side of the planet into an eternal winter and the other into an eternal summer, similar to Uranus (I believe it is).

[sonikku956]

I'd be dead.

[Piccolo Daimao]

This forum would not exist anymore.

[Ketchup_Revenge]

The Earth's axial tilt will increase until seasons as we know them disappear, plunging one side of the planet into an eternal winter and the other into an eternal summer, similar to Uranus (I believe it is).

Not necessarily. The axis angle would actually decrease. Uranus's poles are horizontal because it once collided with another planet that no longer exists. For example, Mars has no moon and it isn't turned on it's side like Uranus is.

If we didn't have the moon, there would be no high tide or low tide, no change in seasons (as you already mentioned), and not much protection against space debris. The moon's gravity also helps churn our planet's mantle and core, so volcanic activity would decrease which could be a problem.

This isn't even related to Dragon Ball!!!

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Let's say that, for some reason, the moon we have just suddenly disappeared or got blown up.

How would that effect us on earth?

What's that gotta do with Roshi?

[GS7X7]

The Earth's axial tilt will increase until seasons as we know them disappear, plunging one side of the planet into an eternal winter and the other into an eternal summer, similar to Uranus (I believe it is).

Not necessarily. The axis angle would actually decrease. Uranus's poles are horizontal because it once collided with another planet that no longer exists. For example, Mars has no moon and it isn't turned on it's side like Uranus is.

If we didn't have the moon, there would be no high tide or low tide, no change in seasons (as you already mentioned), and not much protection against space debris. The moon's gravity also helps churn our planet's mantle and core, so volcanic activity would decrease which could be a problem.

This isn't even related to Dragon Ball!!!

Except for the scene where Roshi blows up the moon and it remains blown up for a couple years, with seemingly no adverse effects on earth besides a certain werewolf.

One more question- if it got blown up, where would all the moon fragments go? Would they just float around, or would they strike earth wiping out most civilization and creating a new ice age? I remember there was a big deal with some Star Wars fans that scientifically speaking, if something like the Death Star blew up all the fragments would kill everyone on Endor. (forcing the creators to create a new plothole- blackhole sucking up the fragments- to keep the happy ending going)

[Rocketman]

Alright, I'm here.

Sea levels will rise and submerge at least one island.

Wrong.

If we didn't have the moon, there would be no high tide or low tide, no change in seasons (as you already mentioned), and not much protection against space debris. The moon's gravity also helps churn our planet's mantle and core, so volcanic activity would decrease which could be a problem.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

The Earth's axial tilt will increase until seasons as we know them disappear, plunging one side of the planet into an eternal winter and the other into an eternal summer, similar to Uranus (I believe it is).

Wrong, but close.

First, we need to examine the relationship the Earth has with its Moon.



This is how the tides line up when the Moon is New and Full. The Moon doesn't raise tides all by itself, the Sun's gravity also tugs on our oceans. When the Sun and Moon line up, we get the biggest tides.

To simplify, take the Sun out of the picture for a moment. The Moon's gravity is pulling that bulge of water up. So what happens when you remove the Moon? 2/3rds of the water in that bulge falls down (1/3rd of the tides are due to the Sun's gravity and therefore would not change).

That is a goddamn enormous amount of water set loose. Tsunamis cross the entire planet (remember, there's two bulges on both sides of the Earth. Both bulges collapse when the Moon vanishes).

But...tides don't just affect the oceans. The solid bulk of the Earth is also distorted by the Moon's pull into a slight egg-shape. So, when the Moon vanishes, the entire Earth changes shape, becoming more round. Earthquakes everywhere, volcanoes erupting as the Earth squeezes itself more spherical.

On debris from the Moon itself:

The asteroid that slammed into the Earth 65 million years ago and caused the extinction of the dinosaurs was about six miles across. The Moon is 3,000 miles across. The Earth will get shotgunned by lunar debris if the Moon was destroyed hard enough to completely fly apart because the Moon is trapped in Earth's gravity well.

So yeah, we're talking a continuous rain of former moonrock, falling all over the planet as it turns. No single piece even has to be six miles across; enough small impacts are just as bad. The constant impacts, earthquakes and eruptions create worldwide firestorms. The smoke blasted up by volcanoes and impacts or created by the endless fires chokes the sky. The Sun will not shine on the Earth's surface for a thousand years.

Which makes most of the rest of the stuff extraneous, but just for fun, let's imagine the Moon is pulverized in such a way that there are very few impacts on Earth, none of which create an Extinction-Level Event like what killed the dinosaurs.

The oceans will find their new balance relatively quickly, meaning the first massive worldwide tidal wave is the only one. The solid rock will take longer to grind into its new arrangement, so earthquakes and volcanoes continue to rumble for a long time after the Moon is gone.

Tides:

They still exist, controlled entirely by the Sun. They're 1/3rd of what they used to be, and now are as predictable as clockwork - high tide at noon and midnight, low tide at 6 am and pm

Seasons:

Unaffected. The seasons are created by the tilt of the Earth and its orbit around the Sun, neither of which would be affected by the Moon vanishing.

Note that I only mean "unaffected" in the sense that "after everything recovers from the immediate disasters, the seasons will still be similar". The Moon blowing up would be a massive shock to the balance of everything on Earth, but the seasons are governed by other processes and would eventually reassert themselves.

Axial Tilt:

The Moon does not create the 23.5-degree tilt of the Earth. What it does, is act as a counter balance, keeping the Earth at that tilt. Without the Moon, the influence of the other planets (mostly Jupiter) and the Sun itself would knock Earth's axis around. However, this would take thousands of years and would be a very slow process.

"shield for space debris":

Insignificant. The Moon is far too small to noticeably affect near-Earth objects. I know that pretty much every movie shows the asteroids or whatever flying by the Moon, but that's just movie visuals.



There's just too much empty space out there.

"churn the planet core":

Yes, but insignificant. The Earth's core remains molten and gooey because Earth is a big planet that hasn't had time to cool off yet. Venus also has a hot liquidy center, and it has no moons at all.

Weather:

While the Moon doesn't directly affect the weather, the aftershocks of the disasters and the loss of the Moon's influence on the oceans would very likely alter weather patterns around the world. To what extent, none can say.

Life:

Mass extinctions everywhere. From species obliterated by the initial disasters, to those that navigate by Moonlight, to those that live in the intertidal regions, to those that only breed on the nights of the Full Moon, all life on Earth has evolved underneath our big Moon. The changing weather would also drive species to extinction.

Any questions?

[TripleRach]

"Tide goes in, tide goes out. You can't explain that." --Dragon Ball Earth

For example, Mars has no moon and it isn't turned on it's side like Uranus is.

Are you sure you're not thinking of another planet? Because I'm pretty sure Mars has two moons (Phobos and Deimos).

[GS7X7]

Rocketman, I hereby dub thee "Dr. Briefs" for your intense scientific knowledge.


Seriously, what do you do for a living? Are you some kind of scientist?

[The Tori-bot]

Rocketman, I hereby dub thee "Dr. Briefs" for your intense scientific knowledge.


Seriously, what do you do for a living? Are you some kind of scientist?

What I like about him is that he's mostly known (to me anyways) for being the guy that ogles Chi-chi and hates Gohan... but every now and then he'll put down his doujinshi, wipe those impure thoughts from his mind, snap on his glasses and goddamn it, you better believe he'll drop some hardcore science all up in your thread.

[StarRot]

-snip-

Please never stop making words.
That was facinating.

[shonenhikada]

If the moon dis was destroyed by Roshi's Kamehameha the following would happen



1. The Earth will rotate faster, since the Earth's rotation is slowed down by the moon causing a more hazardous atmosphere, with more gusty winds, hurricanes, tropical storms etc.Also our days will be shorter. ( 6 hour days )


2.remnants of Luna will fall back to Mother Earth as meteorites (assuming they are dislodged at high speed) creating clouds of dust in the upper atmosphere thus shielding and acting like a buffer to Solar radiation, creating sort of another Ice age. This would eventually cause plants to die, and eventually consumers of the biosphere. Did I forget to mention the massive damage these meteors will do once they hit earth ?

3.The moons' gravitational pull on the Earth is very noticeable and has been dictating our tides since its appearance as a satellite to our planet, responsible for 2/3 of our tides (the other third from the Sun, so they wouldn't be non-existent).Therefore, the tension caused by this pull is analogous to that in a rubber-band.Once the tension is released, the the band, in this case the ocean, will revert to it's normal form, but before doing so will violently release all that potential energy, perhaps as tsunami.After that, the ocean level would probably significantly rise (or perhaps decrease, as it also pulls towards the shore as well). I estimate at least one island will be gone.

4. From pictures of the back side of the moon, you can see that the moon acts as an occasional asteroid/meteor shield, taking hits that might otherwise have an impacted with earth. We might get hit by more objects more frequently.

[Rocketman]

1. The Earth will rotate faster, since the Earth's rotation is slowed down by the moon causing a more hazardous atmosphere, with more gusty winds, hurricanes, tropical storms etc.Also our days will be shorter. ( 6 hour days )

Wrong. While the Moon does act as a brake on the Earth's rotation, the "damage" is already done. The Earth's rotation will not be affected.

creating sort of another Ice age.

Wrong. The ice age did not begin until 63 million years after the impact that killed the dinosaurs. The two events are completely unrelated.

the ocean level would probably significantly rise (or perhaps decrease, as it also pulls towards the shore as well)

Wrong. The disappearance of the Moon would not affect the average worldwide ocean levels.

[shonenhikada]

1. The Earth will rotate faster, since the Earth's rotation is slowed down by the moon causing a more hazardous atmosphere, with more gusty winds, hurricanes, tropical storms etc.Also our days will be shorter. ( 6 hour days )

Wrong. While the Moon does act as a brake on the Earth's rotation, the "damage" is already done. The Earth's rotation will not be affected.

creating sort of another Ice age.

Wrong. The ice age did not begin until 63 million years after the impact that killed the dinosaurs. The two events are completely unrelated.

the ocean level would probably significantly rise (or perhaps decrease, as it also pulls towards the shore as well)

Wrong. The disappearance of the Moon would not affect the average worldwide ocean levels.

Wrong. While the Moon does act as a brake on the Earth's rotation, the "damage" is already done. The Earth's rotation will not be affected.

The strength of gravity depends on the distance from the source. The closer you are, the stronger the "pull" you feel. The Moon's gravity acts on the Earth; but the diameter of the Earth is large enough in relation to the distance of the Moon that the side of the Earth nearer the Moon feels the Moon's gravity significantly more strongly than the side of the Earth away from the Moon.

Diagram showing distribution of Gravitational forces on Earth

--> ----> ------->
far center near
side of Earth side


There are two tidal bulges on the Earth one on the near side and one on the far side. The bulge nearest to the moon has mass not a lot but since it has some it has gravity, and that pulls on the Moon.Of course, the Moon is pulling on the bulge as well. Since the Moon is "behind" the bulge (relative to the rotation of the Earth), it is pulling the bulge backwards, slowing it down. Because of friction with the rest of the Earth, this slowing of the bulge is actually slowing the rotation of the Earth! This is making the day get longer. The effect is small, but measurable. This is the reason why chronologist need to add a leap second to the year every few years.

If we have no moon then the gravitational force acting on this bulge is gone, and the friction on the earth goes with it causing the earth to spin faster.

Wrong. The ice age did not begin until 63 million years after the impact that killed the dinosaurs. The two events are completely unrelated.

I should have probably stated it another way. What I meant to say is that fragments of the moon would block a lot of sunlight resulting in colder winters, and possibly prolonged winter that could last for some time. I should of said nuclear winter instead of ice age its more appropriate.

Wrong. The disappearance of the Moon would not affect the average worldwide ocean levels.[/quote]

Well i did say probably wasn't sure entirely on this,

[Bussani]

If we have no moon then the gravitational force acting on this bulge is gone, and the friction on the earth goes with it causing the earth to spin faster.

What he's saying is that the moon has been slowing the Earth's rotation down gradually for billions of years. Taking away the moon now wouldn't magically make the Earth spin faster; it would just stop it slowing down further.

[shonenhikada]

If we have no moon then the gravitational force acting on this bulge is gone, and the friction on the earth goes with it causing the earth to spin faster.

What he's saying is that the moon has been slowing the Earth's rotation down gradually for billions of years. Taking away the moon now wouldn't magically make the Earth spin faster; it would just stop it slowing down further.

The Moon takes a lot of the spinning momentum from the Earth though tidal energy transfer. With no moon this energy is transferred to the earth's momentum which results in faster spin, and shorter days. In addition,earth's rotational momentumis being transferred to the moon's orbital momentum as tidal friction slows the Earth's rotation.That increase in the moon's speed is causing it to slowly recede from Earth (about 4 cm per year), increasing its orbital period and the length of a month as well. With the moon gone all these factors are gone causing the earth to speed up.