The American Dub Replacement Score Purpose

[Thanos]

So, apparently, from what I understand, DBZ received a replacement score due to licensing/legal issues. Is this even true? That seems far-fetched to me. What reason might Shueisha have to give rights to localization without the music? Especially when the original Dragon Ball came over with its music no problem?

I honestly think their true intentions were to do this all along, to modernize it with that hard rock flavor kids in the 90's apparently love so much... or maybe this was what was admitted all along?

[JulieYBM]

Toei Animation and Kikuchi Shunsuke want royalties. FUNimation, once operated on pennies, crackerjack box prizes, and run out of Fukunaga's garage, would not be able to afford those royalties. By commissioning their own music to use they could collect royalties. "Well, we could either make more money for Toei or use their cartoon to make more money for us. Us!" proclaimed the FUNimation production staff as they banged together their plastic cups full of generic store brand cola.

[cRookie_Monster]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

[dbboxkaifan]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

FUNimation can't really modernise a cartoon series done in the 80's / 90's as the animation shows that it's dated. Ultimate Blast cutscenes did look really nice, though.

[cRookie_Monster]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

FUNimation can't really modernise a cartoon series done in the 80's / 90's as the animation shows that it's dated. Ultimate Blast cutscenes did look really nice, though.

To American audiences it was completely new. And to us older guys, the original score sounds like music from the 50s. That gap and the sparseness were the real reasons, whether it was the "right thing" or not.

Also we started rescoring DBZ in the 90s...so the "90s" were current back then.

[kei17]

I guess it would be an overstatement to say that the Kikuchi score sounds like '50s music. To me, it sounds '70-ish instead.

[cRookie_Monster]

I guess it would be an overstatement to say that the Kikuchi score sounds like '50s music. To me, it sounds '70-ish instead.

I have an old thread on that with examples:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 78#p452778

I think his style sounds *exactly* like old 50's horror movies, throw in some 50's jazzy Mancini and occasional simplified Baroque music and you've nailed his style completely. And of course it makes total sense, since that was the popular style when he was coming of age.

Either way 70s != 80s & 90s

[bkev]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

Unfortunately it's still a common practice via Saban and, up until recently, 4Kids. Hell, when Disney had Digimon, they did it too... I think (please correct me on this if I'm wrong). It's about money and making it easier for cuts to be made without awkward consequences.

[kei17]

I guess it would be an overstatement to say that the Kikuchi score sounds like '50s music. To me, it sounds '70-ish instead.

I have an old thread on that with examples:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 78#p452778

I think his style sounds *exactly* like old 50's horror movies, throw in some 50's jazzy Mancini and occasional simplified Baroque music and you've nailed his style completely. And of course it makes total sense, since that was the popular style when he was coming of age.

Maybe it is that I find it '70s-ish because Kikuchi's music itself was the very '70s TV music in Japan. So many TV shows back then had his music, so it automatically makes the Japanese think of the '70s.

[cRookie_Monster]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

Unfortunately it's still a common practice via Saban and, up until recently, 4Kids. Hell, when Disney had Digimon, they did it too... I think (please correct me on this if I'm wrong). It's about money and making it easier for cuts to be made without awkward consequences.

Well what I am saying comes from my actual conversations with Bruce Faulconer and maybe even Barry Watson...(my conversations with Barry were few and are very hazy in my memory) Maybe Bruce didn't know or maybe I misunderstood. I think Barry, Bruce, myself, and Mike all had similar reactions to the original score's sound. To us it just sounded really old, cheezy, and inappropriate for an American kids'\boy show. What I've now come to appreciate is that the old 50's style is so far back that younger folk now don't even recognize it at all to make that association.

[dbzfan7]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

Unfortunately it's still a common practice via Saban and, up until recently, 4Kids. Hell, when Disney had Digimon, they did it too... I think (please correct me on this if I'm wrong). It's about money and making it easier for cuts to be made without awkward consequences.

Well what I am saying comes from my actual conversations with Bruce Faulconer and maybe even Barry Watson...(my conversations with Barry were few and are very hazy in my memory) Maybe Bruce didn't know or maybe I misunderstood. I think Barry, Bruce, myself, and Mike all had similar reactions to the original score's sound. To us it just sounded really old, cheezy, and inappropriate for an American kids'\boy show. What I've now come to appreciate is that the old 50's style is so far back that younger folk now don't even recognize it at all to make that association.

But it wasn't an American kid's show, It was a Japanese kids show. I don't see where that angle came from other then marketing.

[dbzfan7]

I'm 99% sure it would have been cheaper to license existing sparsely placed music as part of the package than to commission the creation of new wall to wall music. This is also part of why they don't bother anymore That and a host of other reasons.

It was about style, modernizing and Westernizing the score. The Japanese score was seen as being much too sparse and having a very dated sound.

Unfortunately it's still a common practice via Saban and, up until recently, 4Kids. Hell, when Disney had Digimon, they did it too... I think (please correct me on this if I'm wrong). It's about money and making it easier for cuts to be made without awkward consequences.

Well what I am saying comes from my actual conversations with Bruce Faulconer and maybe even Barry Watson...(my conversations with Barry were few and are very hazy in my memory) Maybe Bruce didn't know or maybe I misunderstood. I think Barry, Bruce, myself, and Mike all had similar reactions to the original score's sound. To us it just sounded really old, cheezy, and inappropriate for an American kids'\boy show. What I've now come to appreciate is that the old 50's style is so far back that younger folk now don't even recognize it at all to make that association.

But it wasn't an American kid's show, It was a Japanese kids show. I don't see where that angle came from other then marketing.

[cRookie_Monster]

But it wasn't an American kid's show, It was a Japanese kids show. I don't see where that angle came from other then marketing.

Yup, that's a marketing decision for a Japanese show in an American market, making it more American so it will sell better/be more popular.

The original question was

So, apparently, from what I understand, DBZ received a replacement score due to licensing/legal issues. Is this even true?

I'm saying, no I don't think it's true.

[Gonstead]

Seeing as Funimation was literally not big giant it is now back in the day, I can almost imagine something going along like this.

Toei: Okay, we'll give you This, this and this for *insert amount of money here*
Funi: Whoah there, we can't afford that! Can you maybe sell us just the video and SFX?
Toei: Hmm... alright I'll sell you this and this for *insert amount of money here*
Funi: Done and done! *shakes*

Of course though, the more likely events that happened were that they did in fact receive all the materials for the show (Voiceless Video, SFX and Music film reels) but decided ultimately that they would have made more money by not paying royalties for the music and instead hire to create their own brand of music to go along with the thing of "Americanizing" a foreign show since it was still a common thing to do back in those days.

The thing is though, unless the company or the original creator is heavily involved in the final result (Hayao Miyazaki as an example), they literally will not care enough what another company will do with their material so long as it still makes money for them in the end.

[penguintruth]

[please delete]

[penguintruth]

Whether they thought it sounded dated or not, it wasn't their place to replace the music. Toei never should have given them permission to take the beautiful orchestral score and replace it with synth-rock-new-age bullshit. Funimation's unmitigated arrogance in those days still baffles me.

[dbret12]

I kinda hated a bit of the acting in FUNimation's original dub of the Ginyu and Freeza Sagas, but I didn't mind Faulconer's music. However, I'd probably change my mind if I saw the Japanese version.

[matt0044]

Whether they thought it sounded dated or not, it wasn't their place to replace the music. Toei never should have given them permission to take the beautiful orchestral score and replace it with synth-rock-new-age bullshit. Funimation's unmitigated arrogance in those days still baffles me.

Ahhhhhh, humble beginnings can be hard to look back on, huh?

[cRookie_Monster]

Gozar just brought up a good point over in a different thread:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 16#p591072

Basically there was a time when it seemed *noone* knew that DBZ was a Japanese cartoon in the first place. Even today I sometimes have trouble explaining where the show came from.

Again, reasons being right or wrong....just trying to answer the question.

[linkdude20002001]

We had the internet, so I don't see how that's even possible. I was in the Fourth Grade in 1998, and I ALWAYS knew DBZ and Sailor Moon were Japanese cartoons.