Vegeta strongest in the universe?

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:17 am

I was currently re-reading through my Viz books when I happened across Vegeta in the Saiyan saga saying he's the strongest "I'm the greatest Saiyan warrior of all!". I've heard people say that at this point in the story Vegeta claimed to be the strongest in the universe. Did Viz purposely change this because this was an error as he wouldn't have said it if he was working under Freeza? I'm a little fuzzy on remembering if he actually said he was the strongest in the universe at this point in time.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:18 am

Vegeta says he's the strongest in the universe in both versions. Here's the original:

Chapter: 231 (DBZ 37), P1.2, P2.1
Context: after Goku beats him up with the Kaio-Ken x3
Vegeta: “This…this cannot be happening!!! I…I am a Super Elite!! I can not be beaten by some lower-level warrior like him!!! [ ] I am the best in the universe…!!!!”

My guess is Vegeta became entirely delusional and crazy because of the asswhooping he just got from someone who's supposedly "less" than him. The last thing he's going to do is take Freeza and his henchmen into consideration when spouting things like that.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:19 am

There aren't any panels that existed at that time that could contradict said statement, so it might certainly be true!

Fox666 · Post by **Fox666** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:16 am

Freeza wasn't introduced yet. While Kaio mentions that the death of Vegeta would mean the end of all evil in the universe, it doesn't seems he planned someone stronger than Vegeta (or even his Oozaru form).

Neko Majin also makes joke of this, how each new opponents claims to be the strongest in the universe, just to be defeated and say that the true strongest of the universe has now arrived.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:20 am

Yeah, it's pretty clear that Freeza wasn't planned at this point. But for the in-universe explanation, you could say that Vegeta was only talking about Saiyans, since he was just outclassed by a fellow Saiyan which hadn't happened before.

dario03 · Post by **dario03** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:55 am

Saiga wrote:Yeah, it's pretty clear that Freeza wasn't planned at this point. But for the in-universe explanation, you could say that Vegeta was only talking about Saiyans, since he was just outclassed by a fellow Saiyan which hadn't happened before.

Freeza not being planned yet works for Vegeta's statement but what I find weird is when people make statements after knowing of more powerful people. Like Freeza saying this about Goku

Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P3.2-3
Freeza: “You seem far stronger than I thought. I’m a little surprised. To think that there was someone in this world above Captain Ginyu…But you’re no match for me.”

Couple of things that are a little odd there.
1. Vegeta in Oozaru form should of surpassed Ginyu before going to Earth and I think Freeza would of known that. True Vegeta needs a moon to get the full power and would have the tail and moon weakness but at 1.5x Ginyu's strength he would have a nice power gap. And even if he used his own power ball he would be stronger as long as the ball gave him at least a 7x boost.
2. Just a little while earlier Freeza came across 3 other people with greater power than Ginyu (Vegeta, Piccolo, and enraged Gohan)
3. Not to much later Freeza states

Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P2.2-3
Freeza: “I didn’t think you’d be this good…You’re the first person besides my parent who’s got dust on me…This might be the first time in my life I’ve been so excited…”

Which to me sounds like his parent(s) were stronger than Ginyu and that is basically confirmed later on.
Yeah its not a huge deal but it just seems a little odd.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:57 am

That really does seem odd. Freeza must have a very spotty memory, or an inflated opinion of Ginyu.

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:11 am

dario03 wrote:Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P3.2-3
Freeza: “You seem far stronger than I thought. I’m a little surprised. To think that there was someone in this world above Captain Ginyu…But you’re no match for me.”

I know Herms isn't silly enough to make a translation error but perhaps when Akira Toriyama wrote this he was referring to people on Namek? As in "To think there was someone on this world above Captain Ginyu... But you're no match for me." If you take this line into consideration there are already a few people stronger than Ginyu before this line is uttered. Piccolo, Vegeta(Who was now dead so he shouldn't be counted), perhaps even Gohan but most likely not.

dario03 · Post by **dario03** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:17 am

I thought about that but I think he just meant this world as in this plane of existence. But even if he did literally mean Namek then yeah theres still the other 3 and I think enraged Gohan would be stronger since he got some good hits on second form Freeza and pushed back third form for a bit.

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:38 am

dario03 wrote:I thought about that but I think he just meant this world as in this plane of existence. But even if he did literally mean Namek then yeah theres still the other 3 and I think enraged Gohan would be stronger since he got some good hits on second form Freeza and pushed back third form for a bit.

Well, either way, Freeza's statement is wrong as he's witnessed 3 other people who are, or can be if we include Enraged Gohan, above Ginyu. And the fact that Freeza brings up his parents later on I'm more inclined to believe that Toriyama was on about the actual planet, even though he worded it as if he's talking about that plane of existence.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:14 am

Unless Ginyu's actual power is above Freeza's previous 3 forms, Vegeta, merged Piccolo, Enraged Gohan, and Kaio-Ken Goku...yeah.

No, but seriously--I think Freeza held Ginyu's power in such high regard at one point, so it seemed pretty surprising to him that Ginyu was no longer relevant in terms of power. It sounds like he's directly referring to Goku there, but I always liked to look at it as a general acknowledgement of something he once thought was an impossible (Stronger than Ginyu) level to reach. Hell, he even thinks Vegeta and the others defeated the Ginyu Force because they were that good, so he clearly knew Ginyu was no longer a big deal well before he transformed, regardless of what he says to Goku.

freezamite · Post by **freezamite** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:23 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Unless Ginyu's actual power is above Freeza's previous 3 forms, Vegeta, merged Piccolo, Enraged Gohan, and Kaio-Ken Goku...yeah.

No, but seriously--I think Freeza held Ginyu's power in such high regard at one point, so it seemed pretty surprising to him that Ginyu was no longer relevant in terms of power. It sounds like he's directly referring to Goku there, but I always liked to look at it as a general acknowledgement of something he once thought was an impossible (Stronger than Ginyu) level to reach. Hell, he even thinks Vegeta and the others defeated the Ginyu Force because they were that good, so he clearly knew Ginyu was no longer a big deal well before he transformed, regardless of what he says to Goku.

I agree with this. I think it makes sense for Freezer to say such things, because 1 day before Ginyu was in fact the strongest one besides him and his father.
In that one day Vegeta has multiple Zenkay power that put him above Ginyu level, the same goes for Gohan (+ the rage power up) and Piccolo (who merges with Nail and semi-regain his natural power).

About the Vegeta's statement, I think he was considering only the sayans. He was a high class sayan, the strongest of the universe in fact.

dario03 · Post by **dario03** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:38 am

freezamite wrote:
About the Vegeta's statement, I think he was considering only the sayans. He was a high class sayan, the strongest of the universe in fact.

Until Toei screwed it all up and was like hey, guess what Vegeta. You know how you thought you were the strongest Saiyan for like 20 years. Yeah well about that....We kind of forgot to tell you... that theres this guy who kind of has this son... who is kind of crazy and wasprobablystrongerthanyouthatwholetime....Yeah sorry about that

freezamite · Post by **freezamite** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:04 am

dario03 wrote:
freezamite wrote:
About the Vegeta's statement, I think he was considering only the sayans. He was a high class sayan, the strongest of the universe in fact.
Until Toei screwed it all up and was like hey, guess what Vegeta. You know how you thought you were the strongest Saiyan for like 20 years. Yeah well about that....We kind of forgot to tell you... that theres this guy who kind of has this son... who is kind of crazy and wasprobablystrongerthanyouthatwholetime....Yeah sorry about that

You mean that abomination called Brolly? Well, Vegeta didn't know his existence so it still makes sense unless you are referring to someone else.

Kanzenshuu

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