Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

Neither Goku, nor anyone in the whole manga became over 400 times stronger with just training on Earth, so it makes zero sense for base Goku to be at Pure Boo's level in the 28th TB.

Goku got 248x stronger in 10 years, that aside its certainly possible. All I did was take Goku's Base power level after he received a Zenkai in his fight with Buu and multiplied it by 1.75 every year for 10 years. So Goku x 1.75^10. I did drop it a little bit since it was a little too high. However he is still stronger than Kid Buu based on that.

Near-death power-ups have disappeared, or became insignificant at that point of the series. I still think my theory makes more sense, since it keeps Goku at a logical level, and Oob at Pure Boo's level.

I just gave Goku a 1.5x boost with his Zenkai. Furthermore Goku was on par with Uub so Goku would have to be just as strong if not stronger if Uub is gonna be on par with Kid Buu.

[Perfect]

There's nothing in that first page about x300 gravity. As for the second one, I do not recall that ever being mentioned, then again I wouldn't trust the translation of some poorly scanned bootleg manga page. Let's assume that were true, Vegeta could have probably been training under a far larger gravity until Trunks came in; it's a confounding variable you didn't adjust for.

Thats not a mistranslation:
Chapter: 429 (DBZ 235), P2.2, P2.5, P4.1
Context: as Vegeta and (regular) Trunks train in the gravity room
Vegeta: “Don’t overdo it, Trunks. You’d better leave the room. This 150-fold gravity is too much for you.”
[ ]
Trunks: “Y-yeah, its too tough like this…How ‘bout I become a Super Saiyan…”
*he becomes one and runs around*
Trunks: “This is a walk in the park!”
Huh 150 is too much for you, you better leave the room? I don't think Vegeta was adjusting for him =/.

Well technically it is mistranslated, because that says 100. Anyhow, I highly doubt Vegeta would have let Trunks enter if the gravity were something like 500, so it's perfectly logical for him to have dialed it down to what he ASSUMED would be sustainable for a brief period. Unless Vegeta was in there for days training, the gravity would barley make a difference, by which the gravity itself is useless by comparison to its initial usage.

[VegettoEX]

The amount of rude and antagonistic replies in this thread is doing nothing but proving why battle power discussions have been shoved aside by this community into its own ghetto.

They're not welcome. They're not warranted. No-one wants to read them. (The rude replies, not necessarily the battle power comments.)

Several of you have been warned before, both publicly and with formal strikes against your account. I can't say it any harsher: if you're not willing to have polite discussions and be awesome dudes and dudettes, we are NOT willing to have you here. That's it. The end. Kaput.

The next rude response seen by any moderator or administrator in this thread will result in the owner having their account access revoked at the appropriate level (temporarily if no account strikes, permanently if any account strikes).

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's nothing in that first page about x300 gravity. As for the second one, I do not recall that ever being mentioned, then again I wouldn't trust the translation of some poorly scanned bootleg manga page. Let's assume that were true, Vegeta could have probably been training under a far larger gravity until Trunks came in; it's a confounding variable you didn't adjust for.

Thats not a mistranslation:
Chapter: 429 (DBZ 235), P2.2, P2.5, P4.1
Context: as Vegeta and (regular) Trunks train in the gravity room
Vegeta: “Don’t overdo it, Trunks. You’d better leave the room. This 150-fold gravity is too much for you.”
[ ]
Trunks: “Y-yeah, its too tough like this…How ‘bout I become a Super Saiyan…”
*he becomes one and runs around*
Trunks: “This is a walk in the park!”
Huh 150 is too much for you, you better leave the room? I don't think Vegeta was adjusting for him =/.

Well technically it is mistranslated, because that says 100. Anyhow, I highly doubt Vegeta would have let Trunks enter if the gravity were something like 500, so it's perfectly logical for him to have dialed it down to what he ASSUMED would be sustainable for a brief period. Unless Vegeta was in there for days training, the gravity would barley make a difference, by which the gravity itself is useless by comparison to its initial usage.

Why would he dial it down? Vegeta even asks Trunks to leave implying he hadn't intended to train with him. Vegeta is also too focused his own training to dial down for Trunks.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The amount of rude and antagonistic replies in this thread is doing nothing but proving why battle power discussions have been shoved aside by this community into its own ghetto.

They're not welcome. They're not warranted. No-one wants to read them. (The rude replies, not necessarily the battle power comments.)

Several of you have been warned before, both publicly and with formal strikes against your account. I can't say it any harsher: if you're not willing to have polite discussions and be awesome dudes and dudettes, we are NOT willing to have you here. That's it. The end. Kaput.

The next rude response seen by any moderator or administrator in this thread will result in the owner having their account access revoked at the appropriate level (temporarily if no account strikes, permanently if any account strikes).

Very well sir I just didn't appreciate it when Perfect called my opinions bull shit.

[Perfect]

There's several explanations.

1. Trunks may have been there from the start with Vegeta incrementally turning it up. (Note: Vegeta may have been in the room prior and training, so an intermission, who knows)
2. Vegeta knowing Trunks was on his way, turned it to a more sustainable level, although he was mistaken and figured it'd be best for him to leave.
3. Vegeta was so sore from training he had to dial it down for his own good, at which point Trunks conveniently enters.
4. Vegeta had spent days under a low range of gravity fields, doing exercises he wouldn't be able to accomplish in x500 or more. (As I said this makes any point moot about the initial gravity's purpose being useful)
5. Vegeta trained in his base at much higher levels, whereby he had to turn the gravity down and eventually found himself going SSJ. (Goku mastered x100 gravity to which point it didn't affect him at all, hence breaking his bed and floating in the air nearly from not feeling its effects--hence it's about as useful on its own as normal gravity)

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's several explanations.

1. Trunks may have been there from the start with Vegeta incrementally turning it up. (Note: Vegeta may have been in the room prior and training, so an intermission, who knows)
2. Vegeta knowing Trunks was on his way, turned it to a more sustainable level, although he was mistaken and figured it'd be best for him to leave.
3. Vegeta was so sore from training he had to dial it down for his own good, at which point Trunks conveniently enters.
4. Vegeta had spent days under a low range of gravity fields, doing exercises he wouldn't be able to accomplish in x500 or more. (As I said this makes any point moot about the initial gravity's purpose being useful)
5. Vegeta trained in his base at much higher levels, whereby he had to turn the gravity down and eventually found himself going SSJ. (Goku mastered x100 gravity to which point it didn't affect him at all, hence breaking his bed and floating in the air nearly from not feeling its effects--hence it's about as useful on its own as normal gravity)

These are all opinions that can't be proven. It's 150x gravity none the less and he is sweating. Basic training can still improve power and there is nothing that suggest otherwise.

[Perfect]

There's several explanations.

1. Trunks may have been there from the start with Vegeta incrementally turning it up. (Note: Vegeta may have been in the room prior and training, so an intermission, who knows)
2. Vegeta knowing Trunks was on his way, turned it to a more sustainable level, although he was mistaken and figured it'd be best for him to leave.
3. Vegeta was so sore from training he had to dial it down for his own good, at which point Trunks conveniently enters.
4. Vegeta had spent days under a low range of gravity fields, doing exercises he wouldn't be able to accomplish in x500 or more. (As I said this makes any point moot about the initial gravity's purpose being useful)
5. Vegeta trained in his base at much higher levels, whereby he had to turn the gravity down and eventually found himself going SSJ. (Goku mastered x100 gravity to which point it didn't affect him at all, hence breaking his bed and floating in the air nearly from not feeling its effects--hence it's about as useful on its own as normal gravity)

These are all opinions that can't be proven. It's 150x gravity none the less and he is sweating. Basic training can still improve power and there is nothing that suggest otherwise.

They're not "opinions", they're plausible theories. They're every bit as likely as your theory you just stated, if the context is solely kept to that page. x100 gravity having no effect on Goku however, should be an indication that basic training becomes obsolete. Otherwise why not just train like when he was a kid, the effect on him would be little to nothing.

[dbzfan7]

There's several explanations.

1. Trunks may have been there from the start with Vegeta incrementally turning it up. (Note: Vegeta may have been in the room prior and training, so an intermission, who knows)
2. Vegeta knowing Trunks was on his way, turned it to a more sustainable level, although he was mistaken and figured it'd be best for him to leave.
3. Vegeta was so sore from training he had to dial it down for his own good, at which point Trunks conveniently enters.
4. Vegeta had spent days under a low range of gravity fields, doing exercises he wouldn't be able to accomplish in x500 or more. (As I said this makes any point moot about the initial gravity's purpose being useful)
5. Vegeta trained in his base at much higher levels, whereby he had to turn the gravity down and eventually found himself going SSJ. (Goku mastered x100 gravity to which point it didn't affect him at all, hence breaking his bed and floating in the air nearly from not feeling its effects--hence it's about as useful on its own as normal gravity)

These are all opinions that can't be proven. It's 150x gravity none the less and he is sweating. Basic training can still improve power and there is nothing that suggest otherwise.

They're not "opinions", they're plausible theories. They're every bit as likely as your theory you just stated, if the context is solely kept to that page. x100 gravity having no effect on Goku however, should be an indication that basic training becomes obsolete. Otherwise why not just train like when he was a kid, the effect on him would be little to nothing.

DBZGTKOSDH seems to have the best medium. I still think Goku getting 240x stronger when he didn't even get near that without transformations in 7 years seems odd.

Anyways I agree with training that becomes obsolete. If I stuck with 10lbs during some work outs then I would never get any stronger or build anything since I have gone beyond that level. 10lbs wouldn't help anymore since it would be too easy and no gain would be made from continuing from that weight. Weights/training methods become obsolete after a while is fact.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku was on par with Uub so Goku would have to be just as strong if not stronger if Uub is gonna be on par with Kid Buu.

Did you read what I said before?

[Saiga]

I think DBZGTKOSDH has the best interpretation for those who view Oob as reaching Pure Boo's level in his enraged state. I'm not one of them, but it's an interesting take that doesn't rely on Goku gaining stupidly high gains.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There's several explanations.

1. Trunks may have been there from the start with Vegeta incrementally turning it up. (Note: Vegeta may have been in the room prior and training, so an intermission, who knows)
2. Vegeta knowing Trunks was on his way, turned it to a more sustainable level, although he was mistaken and figured it'd be best for him to leave.
3. Vegeta was so sore from training he had to dial it down for his own good, at which point Trunks conveniently enters.
4. Vegeta had spent days under a low range of gravity fields, doing exercises he wouldn't be able to accomplish in x500 or more. (As I said this makes any point moot about the initial gravity's purpose being useful)
5. Vegeta trained in his base at much higher levels, whereby he had to turn the gravity down and eventually found himself going SSJ. (Goku mastered x100 gravity to which point it didn't affect him at all, hence breaking his bed and floating in the air nearly from not feeling its effects--hence it's about as useful on its own as normal gravity)

These are all opinions that can't be proven. It's 150x gravity none the less and he is sweating. Basic training can still improve power and there is nothing that suggest otherwise.

They're not "opinions", they're plausible theories. They're every bit as likely as your theory you just stated, if the context is solely kept to that page. x100 gravity having no effect on Goku however, should be an indication that basic training becomes obsolete. Otherwise why not just train like when he was a kid, the effect on him would be little to nothing.

Plausible theories and opinions are the same thing. Both are based on material that isn't necessarily true. Goku does train constantly. Whenever he isn't fighting, eating, or hanging out with his family he is training. There is no indication that basic training doesn't work. Vegeta has been doing it for the 7 years between the Android arc and the Buu arc and he got stronger. 100x gravity does affect him, it just doesnt affect him very much. training under 100x gravity is still more effective than training under regular gravity. Ki also isn't a muscle. As long as you are doing something it can likely be improved. If it simply couldn't be improved with basic training anymore Goku wouldn't have gotten any stronger over those 10 years which can't work since Goku said he would get stronger.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku was on par with Uub so Goku would have to be just as strong if not stronger if Uub is gonna be on par with Kid Buu.

Did you read what I said before?

I did but that Kiai attack would have hurt Goku a lot if Goku was as strong as you depict him. Goku has no scratch or bruises on him at all. Only his clothes are ripped. This leads me to believe Goku is stronger. Furthermore I still apply my training multipliers which bring Goku to a level higher than Buu's. If you wanna believe what you wanna believe I won't stop you since that is a plausible explanation.

[Kaboom]

Kiai-type attacks are essentially just shockwaves. They "push" you. They're not going to burn or vaporize you like most other Ki attacks would. Even if that Kiai did have Pure Boo power behind it, it wouldn't necessarily kill Goku even if he was many times weaker than it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kiai-type attacks are essentially just shockwaves. They "push" you. They're not going to burn or vaporize you like most other Ki attacks would. Even if that Kiai did have Pure Boo power behind it, it wouldn't necessarily kill Goku even if he was many times weaker than it.
.

It would still hurt him. I would expect to see a few bruises or scratches from a Pure Buu Kiai if Goku was as strong as people imply.

[hleV]

What I don't understand is how does that brief fight between Goku and Oob put Goku on Pure Boo's level. There have never been such absurdly large power gains before, suggesthing that this theory needs to be reworked.
When making such an outrageous theory, one needs to factor in other important things: how odd it is for Goku to have gotten so much stronger; Oob's inability to control his power; the unclarity of how much power Oob was using during different parts of the 4-page fight and etc.
Since there isn't really anything that flat out states Goku being on par with Pure Boo, and that the implications can easily have various interpretations, it's much more easy to assume that Goku, in fact, didn't have such an absurdly large power gain.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What I don't understand is how does that brief fight between Goku and Oob put Goku on Pure Boo's level. There have never been such absurdly large power gains before, suggesthing that this theory needs to be reworked.
When making such an outrageous theory, one needs to factor in other important things: how odd it is for Goku to have gotten so much stronger; Oob's inability to control his power; the unclarity of how much power Oob was using during different parts of the 4-page fight and etc.
Since there isn't really anything that flat out states Goku being on par with Pure Boo, and that the implications can easily have various interpretations, it's much more easy to assume that Goku, in fact, didn't have such an absurdly large power gain.

The theory I'm using that puts Goku on this level is worked into my entire battle power list. My battle power list is on pg 75 of this forum.

[hleV]

What I don't understand is how does that brief fight between Goku and Oob put Goku on Pure Boo's level. There have never been such absurdly large power gains before, suggesthing that this theory needs to be reworked.
When making such an outrageous theory, one needs to factor in other important things: how odd it is for Goku to have gotten so much stronger; Oob's inability to control his power; the unclarity of how much power Oob was using during different parts of the 4-page fight and etc.
Since there isn't really anything that flat out states Goku being on par with Pure Boo, and that the implications can easily have various interpretations, it's much more easy to assume that Goku, in fact, didn't have such an absurdly large power gain.

The theory I'm using that puts Goku on this level is worked into my entire battle power list. My battle power list is on pg 75 of this forum.

Not sure what does that have to do with anything I just wrote.

[TheMightyOzaru]

What I don't understand is how does that brief fight between Goku and Oob put Goku on Pure Boo's level. There have never been such absurdly large power gains before, suggesthing that this theory needs to be reworked.
When making such an outrageous theory, one needs to factor in other important things: how odd it is for Goku to have gotten so much stronger; Oob's inability to control his power; the unclarity of how much power Oob was using during different parts of the 4-page fight and etc.
Since there isn't really anything that flat out states Goku being on par with Pure Boo, and that the implications can easily have various interpretations, it's much more easy to assume that Goku, in fact, didn't have such an absurdly large power gain.

The theory I'm using that puts Goku on this level is worked into my entire battle power list. My battle power list is on pg 75 of this forum.

Not sure what does that have to do with anything I just wrote.

Simple. Goku getting that strong isn't ludicrous because the increases Goku has received before reflect the increase he received in those 10 years. I have taken into account Uub's inability to control his power. Him being unable to control it doesn't mean he isnt powerful. Goku said he was as amazing as he expected. Its clear that Uub is the reincarnation of Kid Buu Goku has been waiting 10 years for. Goku has high hopes for the kid and seeing how he is the reincarnation I would say he is Kid Buu's equal. In that 4 page fight Uub was unable to hurt Goku at a power level which Goku remarked was as amazing as he expected and he even claimed it was his true ability.

[Bussani]

I'm not sure I should get involved in this at all, but something did catch my attention: the soul vs. spirit discussion.

In English, the word spirit can be a bit vague, but I'd at least like to point out that it isn't always synonymous with the soul. Personally, I'd say there's a distinction between the two. According to an online dictionary:

spirit
 
spir·it
[spir-it] Show IPA
noun
1. the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.

This also happens to be the definition that best matches the way Japan uses the term. To have spirit is to be spirited, to be in high spirits, to have willpower, drive, determination, courage, etc. I'd say that sort of thing comes from the soul, but is distinct from it.

Still, all that said, I think it's clear that Uub is supposed to have Buu's power inside him somewhere. Whether it all came out during his fight with Goku is a matter of opinion.