Janemba & Hirudegarn Comparisons

[TheMightyOzaru]

Can I get the official scan that says Janemba is stronger than Hirudegarn?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

So Fox666 posted this screenshot from the now defunct Toei website for the DB/Z movies. It's a page from the site's "Movie Dragon Ball History" section, and deals with DBZ movie 13. The first paragraph details how the movie explains the origins of Trunks' sword, the second paragraph talks about how Hildegarn is strong but only the second strongest movie villain after Janenba, and the third explains Hildegarn's name pun. Predictably, someone requested that I translate the second paragraph, so here goes:

The phantom majin Hildegarn is a formidable opponent capable of trading blows evenly with even Super Saiyan 3 Goku, but since Janenba from the previous work "The Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta" could beat back Super Saiyan 3 Goku, strength-wise this makes him No.2 out of the movie series enemies.

OK, I guess that's more of a run-on sentence than a paragraph, but whatever. And I can't figure out a way of wording it that doesn't make it seem ambiguous whether "that makes him No.2" refers to Hildegarn or Janenba, but it is supposed to refer to Hildegarn. At any rate you can still see from the descriptions of the two what they're going for: Hildegarn fights evenly with SSj3 Goku while Janenba kicked his ass. Among other things, this assumes that SSj3 Goku is still as strong in DBZ movie 13 as he was in 12, maybe a stretch considering half the point of the movie is that Goku has this awesome new attack. The idea that Hildegarn was even with Goku is perhaps also questionable. Well, whatever.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Is this official or can I disregard this? I'm not all for Janemba being stronger just because he beat Ssj3 Goku easily. That is rather void of logic. Janemba is certainly cooler than Hirudegarn but I don't see him being stronger than Gohan, whom Hirudegarn beat.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

It was on a Toei website, so it's as official as any other part of the franchise.

[Kaboom]

This would mean:

- If Hildegarn is indeed stronger than SSj3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan, then Janemba is even more so.
- Super Gogeta is, much like but to a lesser degree than his Potara counterpart, stronger than all of the above.
- Either Goku's got some damn good sturdy defenses against Hildy in Movie 13, or he, SSj3 Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan aren't all TOO different from each other in power.

I should rewatch Movie 13, to be honest. I want to see if there's reasonable room to assume Gohan and Gotenks might have been conveniently sucker-punched by Hildegarn or something to soften this logical blow a bit.

[Undertaker]

The Daizenshuu is official and yet it's full of errors. Hirudegarn being weaker than janemba was said there probably because Janemba beat SSjin 3 Goku. It's the same thing like the Daizenshuu says Dabura ~ Perfect Cell just because Goku said something like that but yet Dabura was not leagues ahead FPSSjin Teen Gohan. Hirudegarn is at least Gohan-Boo's rival. Janemba > Gohan-Boo???? The strongest character which was shown in the Anime before the release of the movie was Super Buu who was also suppressed vs SSjin Gotenks (Post).

[Blade]

- Either Goku's got some damn good sturdy defenses against Hildy in Movie 13, or he, SSj3 Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan aren't all TOO different from each other in power.

It's somewhat of a controversial opinion but I've always been convinced that this is the case and think it's fairly consistent with the Anime and it's somewhat implicit in the Manga.

[Saitou Hajime]

This would mean:

- If Hildegarn is indeed stronger than SSj3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan, then Janemba is even more so.
- Super Gogeta is, much like but to a lesser degree than his Potara counterpart, stronger than all of the above.
- Either Goku's got some damn good sturdy defenses against Hildy in Movie 13, or he, SSj3 Gotenks, and Ultimate Gohan aren't all TOO different from each other in power.

I should rewatch Movie 13, to be honest. I want to see if there's reasonable room to assume Gohan and Gotenks might have been conveniently sucker-punched by Hildegarn or something to soften this logical blow a bit.

Well, there's no explaining away what happened to Gotenks; the boys were literally smacked out of fusion by a straight up flying punch. Gohan I guess fared a little better, falling prey again to Hirudegarn's teleport spam, trapped by his tail and then flung away to a building; I supposed one can fan-wank that he got squeezed to near-unconsciousness and then the resulting impact finished the job, although why he couldn't get up again unlike friggin' SSJ2 Goku I'll never know.

Then there's SSJ3 Goku, dodging the same flying punch that took out Gotenks, smiling after getting backhanded, and then basically shrugging off punches he dared Hirudegarn to hit him with.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The movie doesn't nessesarily portray SS3 Goku as stronger than U. Gohan & SS3 Gotenks.
Gotenks was caught off-guard, and took a charged punch in his face, and Gohan, also caught off-guard, was squashed by his tail. However, Goku was ready to take the Hildegarn punches, and he clearly took heavy damage for them, but he could stand up due to his willpower.
Also, Gohan & Gotenks never used any of their strongest techniques on Hildegarn, while Goku used his strongest one.

[Fox666]

deleted

[Saiga]

If Hildy is strong enough to one-shot Gohan and Gotenks, then willpower shouldn't mean dick for Goku. Watching the movie, any arguments for Goku to be weaker are flimsy at best.