How would YOU have done DBZ?

[FoolsGil]

Because Piccolo and enraged Gohan are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay stronger than Tenshinhan?

Nappa's power level is between 7000 and 8000. It shouldn't matter if Piccolo has a pl of that's a few hundred or one thousand higher than Tenshinhan. And it took Gohan until Piccolo's death to become enraged. So before that, he could have been picked off easily.

So change around Dead Zone and put it in the manga?

I hope not. No semblance of Dead Zone should herald in DBZ

This would require a MASSIVE nerf of Saiyan Saga Piccolo.

Exactly how strong do you think Piccolo is? I'd put him at 1,500. Higher than the other Z warriors, but too low to do any damage. If Piccolo is too low, Buffing would be fine as long as Raditz should be scaled to where Piccolo can't beat him alone. Those times that Piccolo Krillin and Gohan take on Nappa should be mirrored with the battle against Raditz. Unlike Nappa, Raditz would be at a reasonable power level to fall for tag team attacks and be noticeably injured when he gets hit.

I also think that Raditz should be the one to kill Yamcha. In this scenario he looks like a jobber.

Raditz killing Yamcha does feel right. I think that should happen.

[rereboy]

- I would make Vegeta state that he didn't want Gohan and Gotenks brought over to the battlefield because Kid Buu might resort to absorption again like he had before and the kids had been powerless to stop him.

I wouldn't like that. It would make Buu look so stupidly cheap, and basically ruin Super Buu's entire character.

I don't agree with your view. Even without that line, it is known that Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin (which proves that he can resort to such tactics when he wants to or needs to) and that Super Buu absorbed Gohan and Gotenks when he was in trouble. So my suggested line doesn't change anything about Kid Buu or Super Buu's characters at all. I'm even having trouble understanding why you said it would.

This line would only make Vegeta seem like an even better tactician while providing a solid stated reason for not wanting Gohan or Gotenks fighting directly with Kid Buu, since, because of their power, Kid Buu might get driven into an corner and resort to absorption which would only make him stronger again, and the kids would probably be unable to resist or avoid the absorption since they had already fell victims to it before (Gohan fell for it even after knowing that Buu could absorb people).

It would be much better to have them fight indirectly with a part of their energy alongside all the people of Earth so that Kid Buu wouldn't stand a chance of using such tactics. Thus, the Genki Dama.

And that's why I would make Vegeta say that line or another similar.

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- Besides what I previously mentioned, I would also make Goku state, inside of Buu's body, that he and Vegeta couldn't fight Buu like they were at the moment because, even after freeing the the kids and Piccolo, he was still much stronger than either of them. In other words, instead of having Goku say "we would be killed!", I would have him say "he's still much stronger than us!". Hopefully that would end some of the power debates.

[RandomGuy96]

Nappa's power level is between 7000 and 8000. It shouldn't matter if Piccolo has a pl of that's a few hundred or one thousand higher than Tenshinhan. And it took Gohan until Piccolo's death to become enraged. So before that, he could have been picked off easily.

No, it's not. Nappa's power level is 4,000. Piccolo's is 3,500.

I hope not. No semblance of Dead Zone should herald in DBZ

Ah, I like Dead Zone.

Exactly how strong do you think Piccolo is? I'd put him at 1,500. Higher than the other Z warriors, but too low to do any damage. If Piccolo is too low, Buffing would be fine as long as Raditz should be scaled to where Piccolo can't beat him alone. Those times that Piccolo Krillin and Gohan take on Nappa should be mirrored with the battle against Raditz. Unlike Nappa, Raditz would be at a reasonable power level to fall for tag team attacks and be noticeably injured when he gets hit.

1,500 is pitifully low for him. That'd only make him equal to Raditz and certainly not able to one-shot a Saibaman. Tien and Krillin shouldn't even be that low.

Piccolo's official power level in the Saiyan Saga is 3,500. In the saga itself, he was implied to be massively ahead of Tien, who was at least around 1,800 given the way he one-shotted that Saibaman, who is in turn implied to be far ahead of Yamcha, who defeated a Saibaman. You'd have to massively nerf him to have Raditz pose any threat at all.

Raditz killing Yamcha does feel right. I think that should happen.

"Well, at least we've concluded that our Raditz is still stronger than your Raditz".

I don't agree with your view. Even without that line, it is known that Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin (which proves that he can resort to such tactics when he wants to or needs to) and that Super Buu absorbed Gohan and Gotenks when he was in trouble. So my suggested line doesn't change anything about Kid Buu or Super Buu's characters at all. I'm even having trouble understanding why you said it would.

This line would only make Vegeta seem like an even better tactician while providing a solid stated reason for not wanting Gohan or Gotenks fighting directly with Kid Buu, since, because of their power, Kid Buu might get driven into an corner and resort to absorption which would only make him stronger again, and the kids would probably be unable to resist or avoid the absorption since they had already fell victims to it before (Gohan fell for it even after knowing that Buu could absorb people).

It would be much better to have them fight indirectly with a part of their energy alongside all the people of Earth so that Kid Buu wouldn't stand a chance of using such tactics. Thus, the Genki Dama.

And that's why I would make Vegeta say that line or another similar.

My point is, it suggests that Buu can just absorb anyone whenever he wants, and he doesn't need to surprise or weaken them or anything. Super Buu doesn't look like a frighteningly competent and unpredictable villain anymore for his Gotenks plan, he just looks like an idiot for not just throwing pieces of his body at his opponents and absorbing everyone, and his whole plan looks unnecessary if even a dope like Kid Buu can absorb anyone whenever he wants.

Which reminds me, on my list of changes: I'd have Goku foil an attempt by Kid Buu to absorb him with an arm projectile, so that technique doesn't look so cheap.

[rereboy]

There's not that much strategy behind having a chunk of Buu's flesh creep out behind the opponent unnoticed and absorb the opponent. I don't see why Kid Buu, even being as simple minded as he is, wouldn't be able to do it, especially since he was shown to be VERY creative with his body and attacks (extending his arms, dividing himself, turning his legs into some kind of claws that grabbed ki blasts, turning his body into something like a sheet of paper to slow him down, etc).

Besides, absorption doesn't really need much strategy. Any Buu could probably just turn his whole body into a more liquid form as the opponent is punching him, enveloping his opponent and absorbing him. Ranged attacks are the only way to completely avoid something like that (or being that much faster than Buu).

[RandomGuy96]

There's not that much strategy behind having a chunk of Buu's flesh creep out behind the opponent unnoticed and absorb the opponent. I don't see why Kid Buu, even being as simple minded as he is, wouldn't be able to do it, especially since he was shown to be VERY creative with his body and attacks (extending his arms, dividing himself, turning his legs into some kind of claws that grabbed ki blasts, turning his body into something like a sheet of paper to slow him down, etc).

Besides, absorption doesn't really need much strategy. Any Buu could probably just turn his whole body into a more liquid form as the opponent is punching him, enveloping his opponent and absorbing him. Ranged attacks are the only way to completely avoid something like that.

Yeah, that's my point: it looks completely broken and cheap, and the whole Buu Saga becomes PIS.

My head canon is that will only work on an unsuspecting or weak opponent, and Buu himself is basically defenseless while controlling the body part that absorbs. That's why he needs to distract his enemy until it happens. Like I said, I would have liked at least one case where an absorption attempt fails, so Super Buu looks like a frighteningly competent enemy instead of an idiot who didn't just spam absorption.

I probably would have Super Buu try to absorb Gohan in their fight, and fail, as Gohan no sells the attempt and kiais away the body part, and then only succeed later because Gohan was weakened from the beating from Buutenks and taken off guard and from behind.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah, Dead Zone was pretty good. The filler arc of Garlic Jr is what sucked.

[rereboy]

Yeah, that's my point: it looks completely broken and cheap, and the whole Buu Saga becomes PIS.

Ok, but my line wouldn't change any of those things. They exist in the manga itself. The only thing it would change would be Vegeta acknowledgment of how dangerous that ability is and it would justify better the use of the Genki Dama and Gohan and Gotenks being absent.

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah, that's my point: it looks completely broken and cheap, and the whole Buu Saga becomes PIS.

Ok, but my line wouldn't change any of those things. They exist in the manga itself. The only thing it would change would be Vegeta acknowledgment of how dangerous that ability is and it would justify better the use of the Genki Dama and Gohan and Gotenks being absent.

It was never suggested to be quite that broken in the series. Theoretically anyone could do what Vegetto did, they didn't have to be very strong (even though Gohan's advantage over Pure Buu should be just as beefy, if not more so, as Vegetto's advantage over Buuhan). As long as they see it coming, they could no-sell the absorption and wreck Buu from the inside if they wanted.

And that ability wouldn't matter much if Gohan can just kill Buu with one uncharged ki blast before Buu can even register that he has moved.

[rereboy]

It was never suggested to be quite that broken in the series.

Imagine you are Vegeta. Now imagine you are thinking about Buu's absorption, how dangerous it is and all the ways he can use it. If you can imagine it in real life as a reader, there is no reason for a character inside the story to not imagine the same and not fear that ability, taking strategic steps to prevent it. Therefore, it doesn't need to have been suggested as that broken, or even be in reality that broken, for Vegeta to take steps from stopping it from becoming a factor, no matter how broken it really is or not.

Its dangerous, it allows Buu to become even more dangerous, its unknown just in how many ways Buu can use it, and if Buu being attacked by a much superior opponent is likely to trigger it, a more indirect approach to attacking him would be preferable.

My line would acknowledge all of this.

Theoretically anyone could do what Vegetto did, they didn't have to be very strong (even though Gohan's advantage over Pure Buu should be just as beefy, if not more so, as Vegetto's advantage over Buuhan). As long as they see it coming, they could no-sell the absorption and wreck Buu from the inside if they wanted.

As it was proven when Goku and Vegeta were over there (when Goku fired a Ki blast against Buu's body), they were so tiny that their attacks couldn't do any relevant damage to Buu.

Therefore, a shield would only prevent them from being absorbed. Once inside, since there was no one else to free, there was nothing they could do, except escaping.

And this is assuming that any shield would work, that they would have no problem escaping Buu's body, etc.

And that ability wouldn't matter much if Gohan can just kill Buu with one uncharged ki blast before Buu can even register that he has moved.

That's assuming he could. I have no doubt that he is much superior to Kid Buu, but if Gohan could do that to him, that would mean that he would also be able to do that to a SSJ3 Goku with haxxed regeneration... And I have my doubts regarding that.

[Insertclevername]

I'd make the story more concise if I could and clear any inconsistencies.

Have more down time to get to see more of the character's lives (ala Saiyaman portion of the story)

I'd end up making Ultimate Gohan be the one to kill Boo since I don't agree with Toriyama's statement that "he didn't fit".

[Hades]

Journey to the West meets Spec Ops: The Line. That is all.

[Ringworm128]

I would replace the Gohan insert songs in the first two movies with I Am The Walrus by The Beatles.

[DBZ Mick]

Get rid of the obvious Goku favoritism in the Buu Saga. There's no reason why Vegeta, Gotenks, or Gohan couldn't have been the one to take out Buu.

See while it was Goku's technique it was still a team effort with Mr Satan, Vegeta, Good Boo .

I don't know what I would have changed. Probably completely rewrite the Artificial Human and Cell arcs and place them at the beginning of Z.
Make the Freeza arc the final arc.

[caejones]

What would I have done differently?

There are basically two scenarios, here:
1: I'm writing it like Toriyama was--on a schedule, with little time to plan ahead--but with more of my style than Toriyama's style (though, the two mesh rather well, hence why I'm still here XD ).
2: Knowing everything that I do about how the series turns out, and not being on a tight schedule, go back and rewrite it so that its awesome is maximum.

I like the challenge behind 1. So let's me think about it:


- I'm not much of a one-off character type writer. I wouldn't go Robert Jordan and make every single background character into Chekov's Gunman, but I would try to keep characters like ChiChi and the Tenkaichi Budokai finalists relevant (This is something I love about filler in Dragonball, but doing it in a non-fillerific way can have some interesting effects further down the line.)
- I'd be tempted to do something twisty with the Red Ribbon Army. Changing it so that Goku can't just wipe out a whole army single-handedly would change too much about what makes it Goku in Dragonball, but finding something non-useless for the peanut gallery to do... Eh, I'd have to think about that for a few minutes before deciding for sure, but it's something I'd want to try, at least. (The fact that it takes a while to think of a good way, though, probably means I wouldn't be able to work it in if I was on a tight schedule.)
- Pull in some how/why early on and see if anything neat comes of it. I.E, Bulma and the dragonballs and their backstory. I'm mostly wondering how Bulma found out about the legend and was confident enough that it was true that she went out on this quest to find them. Does her father, by virtue of being rich as fungi, know someone who has access to the original records of the king who took over via Dragonballs?
- Goku would at least try to enter the tournament after beating Piccolo. At least this way, we know that the tournament suffered serious setbacks after Piccolo blew up the stadium, that could not be repaired on the timescale we were accustom to.
- Goku likes action/adventure/fighting. ChiChi wants to focus on Gohan's education. Solution: Fieldtrips. Lots and lots of fieldtrips.
- Actually, a Gohan who was smarter than Goku at his age coming across what remains of baby Kakarot's ship could probably get in and accidentally set off some kinda signal, which would get the attention of the Saiyans and Freeza.
- The odds that Gohan never became an Oozaru before training with Piccolo seem quite slim. Actually, perhaps we could introduce Gohan by having an Oozaru show up and attack some place where one of the secondary characters is at the time (Kuririn? Yamcha?), so that when it is revealed not to be Goku, it's a twist!
- In fact, we could double-subvert it by having Raditz or someone show up as an Oozaru, making everyone think it must be Gohan. But that probably wouldn't work so well; or at least, we couldn't pull that with the audience.
- I'd make it more clear that Nappa escaped Chaozu's telekinesis for reasons other than just being that much stronger, or if not, make it clear that telekinesis and power are related (the way Chaozu controlled Goku in the 22nd tournament does not hint at this in the slightest. Sure, the power difference was much smaller, but if we're going to have a superweapon like telekinesis but not let it solve problems, we need to know its limitations beforehand).
- The Gero-Cell arc as it stands is related to the Red Ribbon Army pretty much in name only. Having survivers show up--Silver, Violet, or better yet, Tao Paipai--would strengthen that connection considerably. And #8, of course!
- I'd try to make some connection between the Mazoku under Piccolo and the demons of Makai; I'd rather the Buu Saga didn't feel quite so tacked on. (I have ideas for fixing this, of couse, but those will wait until version 2.)
- I really don't like how Gohan, Goten and Trunks died in the Buu Saga. But, as an authorial move, it's pretty strong, especially if we don't give Porunga a convenient power boost enabling the resurrection of billions in a single wish. I'd instead have them have to hold off Buu for 12 hours, while someone goes to Earth and puts the Dragonballs in the Room of Spirit and Time (possibly using the second Porunga wish to speed up gathering the balls, if that's not too much of an ass-pull). Granted, 12 hours of keeping Kid Buu under control is pretty nuts, so maybe they would try bringing back Gohan first, then realize that beating Kid Buu senseless won't kill him and the Genki Dama is a necessary finisher, or something.


Now, version 2, where we have hindsight and all that to play with:
- I still like the minor characters in pre-Z and want to do a little more with them, not that I can think of much that would work that filler didn't already do (Maybe have Tenshinhan recognize that knocking out Namu in the preliminaries left him vulnerable to Tamberine, and go appologize, or something?)
- Actually, tying Gero's storyline in to the RRA better could easily involve revisiting #8 (and by extention S'no).
- Foreshadow Buu and Freeza earlier. I.E, Piccolo Daimao could have been a Majin who covered up the M on his forehead with the Ma kanji, and his release/death got Babidi/Dabura's attention. ... I'm going to have to go play with the potential grand-unifying idea behind this some more, actually.

[Insertclevername]

I really like your ideas caejones! Though I'm not sure how I feel about connecting Piccolo Diamao with Babidi co. I think it's distance from the rest of the story made it feel fresh.