Episode #0344 (29 September 2013)

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:53 pm

Episode #0344 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes) (YouTube version)
89:42; 96 kbps, mono; 61.8 MB

Episode #0344! VegettoEX, Hujio, and Meri review "Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods" now that its Japanese home release has finally hit. What were our individual expectations heading into the film, do the new characters justify their existence as new extensions to the Dragon World, and most importantly, is it simply a good movie or not? Catching up on a bit of news wraps up the episode!

Referenced sites:

Enjoy the episode!

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:40 am

Yay, I'm not the only one who saves screenshots of my Jaco manga! I did that with KinToki, too. I started doing it with Dragon Ball Full Color, but it was just too time-consuming.

This is probably my favorite podcast episode in a while. I can't think of a single moment when I wasn't enjoying myself. I agree with Mike about the music. I haven't yet seen the film, but I've had the soundtrack since its release. Aside from the "HEAD-CHA-LA" variations (especially the beautiful orchestral one at the end), the music just isn't "Dragon Ball" for me. It's admirable that Sumitomo put effort into the Egyptian/Greek/Latin lyrics for the choir and stuff, but in the end, I'm just reminded that Kikuchi's gone and we're not in the good ol' days anymore. The insert song doesn't do much for me either; I'm a little surprised the three of you had such a warm reaction to it.

I can't wait for the Jaco podcast! I'll be taking notes!

DragonBoxZTheMovies · Post by **DragonBoxZTheMovies** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:50 am

Really enjoyed listening to this episode, nice and lengthy. Will probably end up among my favourites of all time!

I know the exact feeling Mike was describing when Hero kicked in. Really seemed like it was about bringing out the audiences' inner child with the awesome music that Dragon Ball's known for, and the thrilling fight scene. You really do get lost in the wonder of it, and I think Heath pointed that out.

Another scene that really grabbed me was Goku temporarily regaining Super Saiyan God. The silence as Goku began to fall away from Birus's attack, followed by that blue flame and the music. So powerful, must've been amazing in the theatre. The title card too, I'm probably the only one that had this reaction, but the way they seem to turn the music up as the Dragon Balls appear really got me pumped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bojTTPXxYtY

Had to grin when you guys brought up Whis. As people probably saw, I'd been obsessing over this character for months in the build-up to the release of the film. He simply has to be in a potential sequel, we got that little tidbit at the end and nothing else with him. It seems like such a significant thing to leave out on the table...and yes. I can't mention Whis without bringing up the poster.

Uh, I think I gotta go watch the movie now.

Oh, and good to hear that Jeff's still around. Really can't blame him for wanting to avoid GT. Using the "life" excuse is the oldest trick in the book.

EDIT: Completely forgot, Kaio was absolutely amazing in this film. Easily one of the most underrated characters in the franchise. Him and his planet are just so much fun.

Jackal puFF · Post by **Jackal puFF** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:00 am

I'm totally with you guys about Whis! I really hope there's a sequel and he's more explained. I wouldn't mind him being the villain this time around.

Lol! The 15 years moment was

.

That moment was perfect. I rewatched that part so many times.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:48 am

Edit: Wow, I remember when we all thought Whis was a makaioshin, or female, and had pink skin (which was actually just due to how the lighting was hitting him in that tiny shot).

I also distinctly remember wondering who the other "kami" was in "Kami to Kami". XD I recall concluding it was either Whis or an unknown character. How incorrect I was.

I know I spoilered myself a lot with this movie because the one portion that wasn't out there to look at and spoiler yourself with was the Pilaf portion and I was grinning ridiculously through some of that because I didn't know what was coming up next.

Even so, following this movie has been a whirlwind of fun. It was chock-full of the type of humor I enjoy about DB, and I am so grateful they brought Toriyama on to help out (and unintentionally(?) re-write the script). Beers cat-isms really had me entertained. The way Buu keeps him from getting the pudding by licking all the pudding tops was great. The interactions between Kaio-sama and Goku also had me grinning.

Manga!Goku is amazing. He's so wonderfully flawed, and I really like how he's more the protagonist than the hero (something like this was mentioned in the podcast). He's also a cheeky smart-ass on occasion, and while not the sharpest on the draw, he's not stupid either (like how Kaio-sama tries to pull a fast one on him by explaining "Beers" as a food, then Goku plays along for like 2 seconds before revealing he knows Kaio-sama's trying to keep him out of the loop and that he can teleport away to Kaioshin's and find out there). It reminded me of early DB Goku and how he and Bulma would consistently play off each other.

Also we finally get to see Kaio-sama's car get driven (even though a good chunk of it was awkward CGI).
(Did Kaio-sama ever drive that car in the anime? Maybe in filler? I don't remember.)

Beers hiding behind Whis and ducking away when Kaio-sama tries to talk to him was amusing to me for reasons unknown.

The way Beers and Whis interact with each other was also a lot of fun; I want to see more of them. Their homeplanet was also very beautiful.

Beers breakdancing was really cool.

Vegeta's Bingo skit was so awkward that it made me feel awkward watching it. XD

The way the microphone gave feedback before Whis had a chance to sing Beers awake was I think even better than if he had sung. X3

Ssjg Goku was so adorable I wish there'd been more merchandise. (I'm hoping listings do appear for that one coming out in January). (I want a nendoroid or cu-poche of him even though I know that's never gonna happen.) Even Goku's initial discomfort (and repeated uneasy-checking-out-of-his-own-arms) was super-cute. Everything about that character design hits all my fangirl pressure-points. Power-ups in DB are never this cute; as soon as I got a chance to draw a fanart of ssjg I realized what potential this has and he's become one of the staples of stuff that I doodle nowadays. In my head-canon I've decided Goku absorbing it means he kept that power-up as something he can activate if he wants to, and I've decided that more than anything else than because of how adorable he looks in that form (she says shamelessly).

I like the idea of new Kikuchi music; it hadn't crossed my mind before.

My two criticisms of this movie would be 1) the budget being so small that it forced cuts to the script and led to the inclusion of CGI of questionable quality at points and 2) that the trailers were not indicative of the tone of the actual movie; if anything they felt like they would be better suited to the darker original script than the lighter final version. I was given an expectation that there would be a horrific "Oh shit!" moment ala a particular part of Strong World, where in fact the only part where I felt everyone was in genuine danger was near the very end when we get a shot of Beers' attack in outer space from Earth, right before Goku goes ssjg the second time.

I probably have plenty more general feedback, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. ^^;
Also my post is getting incredibly long.
You can see this movie made an impact on me.

Oh! Goku's tracksuit. While months later they revealed ssjg and its cuteness over-rode the tracksuit's, I still think the tracksuit's a cool alternate outfit.

Vegard Aune · Post by **Vegard Aune** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:55 am

On the topic of this being clearly Toriyama-Goku and not the movies' "super-hero Goku"... I do think you might be slighly exaggerating the non-heroicness of manga-Goku as well. I mean, I'm in the process of rereading the manga... Just finished the Freeza-arc... and it's not like he was only ever on about "Gotta beat Raditz 'cause he's strong and interesting! Gotta beat Vegeta 'cause he's strong and interesting! Gotta beat Freeza 'cause he's strong and interesting!" No, I seem to recall him at least aknowledging that "Oh crap, these guys wanna destroy the world, I hafta stop them!" as well...

But yeah, this movie's Goku, with his annoyance that he couldn't attain the Super Saiyan God form himself, and his explanation that he only accepted the powerup because he wouldn't be able to have a good fight with Beers otherwise... Definitely much more in-character than he's been in any other movie.

El Diabeetus · Post by **El Diabeetus** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:42 pm

I figured that would be the answer to the question I asked! But, was still curious to what you guys were going to say, haha!

Overall, I liked most of the BoG soundtrack, but it still would've been nice to see what Kikuchi could've done. My favorite tracks from it despite not being Kikuchi-like at all are 28 and 34. I'm a sucker for the darker sounding pieces with a choir in it. Same reason I like most of Death Note's soundtrack a lot. I also loved the Cha-La (Peaceful Earth) remix and the Hero variation (Goku's Curiosity) on Track 9. Also, like you guys it was awesome to see Hero used so well. So far, I would say this is my favorite DB movie since it goes back to its roots.

Plus, what you guys said about the dub. I think you'll be totally right, as of Kai I don't think they'll do an inaccurate production anymore. I'm just curious as how they're going to handle Goku's overly formal exchange with Beerus since other than small areas in the Kai dub (only in the Saiyan saga too if I remember correctly. Episode 4 with the Yo! King Yemma comment and he dropped a few g's when talking with Bulma's mom in episode 17? I think), he doesn't speak the way he does in Japanese in the dub. I actually had to adjust the subs I put on my ripped Blu-ray so it would incorporate Goku's speech pattern and to change Bills to Beerus, the FUNimation spelling of Freeza to Freeza. When Goku said thank you to Beerus I adapted the subs as "Thank you. I mean "Thank you very much, sir". And Ossu became 'Sup, etc. I know it's kind of shifty to talk about. But, I'm not distributing the tweaked subs in any way, shape or form. This is just to explain how I feel about certain lines and how I would adapt them.

Beerus' English voice is Jason Douglas who was King Cold in Kai's dub. Whis' is Ian Sinclair (Toriko, Brook in One Piece).

I could've done with less Pilaf and co. I enjoyed them being in the movie. But, I feel like they were there a minute or two too long. I am curious to see where it goes from here. I hope to see Beerus and Whis return, they're my favorite antagonist behind Freeza. I though I do enjoy Beerus as a character more than I do Freeza despite Freeza being a very well written character. This is a random comment, but the more I hear Kaioh in Japanese, the more I begin to think he sounds exactly like my Grandpa if he was speaking Japanese. I guess Jouji Yanami sounds like a Japanese equivalent to my Grandpa. Which is odd, at least the tone is the exact same. But their voices are similar.

I do have to agree that Goku was way more in-character than he usually is in movies.

YouTube · Post by **Ajay** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:13 pm

I appreciate you guys answering my question despite it being pretty much fully covered during the main segment. Very interesting to hear your thoughts on it all!

I have to say, I am certainly with you guys on the music, the score as a whole didn't quite have that same Dragon Ball feel that we've come to expect from the series but it served its purpose fairly well. As you said, the insert song was definitely the highlight of the film - a real goosebump inducing moment that had me so giddy with excitement on my initial viewing.

It was a really interesting point you raised about the portrayal of Goku in the film. You're right, it certainly isn't quite the same Goku we saw in the anime towards the end of things, nor the same version of Goku we're used to seeing in the movies. I was wondering what it was about Goku this time around that really triggered something in me. I think it's the way they really played up that childish, joyful (and stubborn) side of him - from the attempts at being polite right the way towards the end where he explains his dislike of the God form due to the methods of achieving it. It was just so Goku and I don't think we'd really seen that in quite a while.

Anyway, great cast - it's always nice to hear long time fans getting giddy about a new product from the franchise!

medama_oyaji · Post by **medama_oyaji** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:27 am

You guys made me want to watch the movie again! Maybe I'll do that today...

Anyway, I more or less agree with what you guys said. I was a little let down by the initial Super Saiyan God transformation because it didn't happen at a particularly dramatic point... just... everybody standing around... and my biggest gripe with the movie was how it looked. The CG is one thing, but I think you guys just barely touched on the actual character animation (exclaiming about the number of key animators and saying "I didn't see it!") The animation looked OK, but (especially seeing it in contrast to One Piece Film Z) there were definitely moments that it looked not so good

That said, it's a totally enjoyable movie, and had that true Dragon Ball feel. I saw comments from my friends on Facebook saying things like "It's like Dragon Ball never ended!" Looking forward to giving it another watch!

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:13 pm

Gah, this podcast would finally come out while I'm stuck on my older laptop while the newer one's in the shop.

I'll have to get to this ASAP when I get it back.

Vegard Aune · Post by **Vegard Aune** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:48 pm

medama_oyaji wrote:The animation looked OK, but (especially seeing it in contrast to One Piece Film Z) there were definitely moments that it looked not so good

That bolded part is just so freaking true it hurts. I mean, Film Z not only had much more consistent 2D-animation, but it also managed to blend in CGI in a manner that was genuinely effective rather than just looking completely cheap. I mean, seriously, why couldn't Battle of Gods look this good? (Warning: 6MB gif-file.)

YouTube · Post by **Ajay** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:52 pm

Vegard Aune wrote: That bolded part is just so freaking true it hurts. I mean, Film Z not only had much more consistent 2D-animation, but it also managed to blend in CGI in a manner that was genuinely effective rather than just looking completely cheap. I mean, seriously, why couldn't Battle of Gods look this good? (Warning: 6MB gif-file.)

Holy fuck, forgive my ignorance but what is that from?!

Vegard Aune · Post by **Vegard Aune** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:56 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
Vegard Aune wrote: That bolded part is just so freaking true it hurts. I mean, Film Z not only had much more consistent 2D-animation, but it also managed to blend in CGI in a manner that was genuinely effective rather than just looking completely cheap. I mean, seriously, why couldn't Battle of Gods look this good? (Warning: 6MB gif-file.)
Holy fuck, forgive my ignorance but what is that from?!

I would have thought it was obvious that it was One Piece Film Z, considering how that's what I was comparing BoG to in that whole post...

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:51 am

I guess it just serves to further demonstrate that Toei's flagship product is undoubtedly One Piece.

Although, in relation to the CGI - there were quite a number of moments in both Film Z and Strong World where I thought it stuck it out like a sore thumb. Especially when it has anything to do with water...

I mean, I get that dynamic camera stuff is cool on the eye, and when done well it gives a theatrical anime film a feel that serves to differentiate it from their TV animation, but it's almost like Toei have a set mandate to include it in their movies in some way or form regardless of the film content. It's like the animation directors are being told to incorporate dynamic camera stuff with CG backgrounds because it's a theatrical release and Toei want to give out a certain impression of big-budgetness or whatever.

I'm not against the use of CGI, but only if it's included in response to the technical requirements of a scene or an artistic/creative decision by the director.

YouTube · Post by **Ajay** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:23 am

Vegard Aune wrote:I would have thought it was obvious that it was One Piece Film Z, considering how that's what I was comparing BoG to in that whole post...

No need to be so damn rude.

My knowledge of what One Piece looks like is severely limited so it certainly didn't strike me as being from that. Heck, I even googled the show and it didn't resemble it so I had assumed it was just another example on top of your initial reference.

medama_oyaji · Post by **medama_oyaji** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:04 am

I wonder if Film Z's CG benefited from being so dark, in contrast to BoG's super bright color palette.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:30 pm

Regarding the key animators list: Toei Animation has been so busy for the past few years I think the list is as long as it is because animators were involved so few cuts. Back in the days of the TV series three or four key animators could work on an episode because their schedule was a little better. These days Toei has a huge number of projects going on, two hundred some-odd television episodes a year with multiple movies and television specials a year. I think there is a lot of shuffling around at Toei to cram in as much drawing during the eleventh hour as possible. One Piece: Episode of Merry was being corrected by Inoue Eisaku right up through the day before it aired. I think key animators are assigned twenty or fifty cuts for a regular television episode, so for a film with likely twelve hundred cuts eighty key animators isn't too out the question with the way Toei can't seem to schedule anymore.

The insert song, of course, was great. I don't think FLOW carries as much in their lungs as the veterans anison performers do, so it's hard to get excited during Cha La Head Cha La, but HERO was pretty exciting. What was most exciting was Shida Naotoshi's cuts, though. Shida has spent the last eight years completely reinventing his style and right now we're definitely looking at his work at it's best. It's a shame Shida hasn't moved on to directing yet, if Toei would focus more on quality and less on quantity Shida could probably have a platform to become an accomplished action director. Kyousougiga seems to be Toei's first jump into Toei embracing the sakuga fandom. Hopefully the next Dragon Ball work will continue that path.

Kanzenshuu

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