The Physics of DB

[ABED]

In another thread, Mr. Judge brought up a lot of interesting points about the pure strength required to do feats such as jump up as high as a cloud or when Tao Pai Pai threw the pillar. He does bring up an interesting point that the strength required to do those things would render the several ton turtle shells moot since they would be insufficient as training tools. I love scientific tidbits like that, but I don't really care what that means as far as storytelling goes because real world physics don't apply in DB.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that real world physics completely don't apply, more like they don't apply consistently. Still that means trying to figure this stuff out is kind of a pointless exercise.

[ABED]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that real world physics completely don't apply, more like they don't apply consistently. Still that means trying to figure this stuff out is kind of a pointless exercise.

Definitely a better way of putting it.

[The Monkey King]

Heck, in the very first chapter Goku lifted and threw a 1 ton car (a Renault 5 Turbo).
Him training with a 20kg shell really makes no sense, it would be like me training with a 800g vest.

[rereboy]

Its pretty clear that Dragon Ball wasn't written with that kind of consistency in mind, otherwise Buu arc base Goku wouldn't have trouble lifting 40 tons while flying, when he was able to push a boulder that looked heavier than that when he was training with Roshi and when Tao Pai Pai was able to throw a big stone pillar over hundreds of miles at super sonic speeds.

There's simply no real consistency.

[ABED]

Heck, in the very first chapter Goku lifted and threw a 1 ton car (a Renault 5 Turbo).
Him training with a 20kg shell really makes no sense, it would be like me training with a 800g vest.

Well, he does struggle to lift it, and he still needs to be able to move so having a 1 ton turtle shell would probably be too heavy, but point taken.

[xmysticgohanx]

Its pretty clear that Dragon Ball wasn't written with that kind of consistency in mind, otherwise Buu arc base Goku wouldn't have trouble lifting 40 tons while flying, when he was able to push a boulder that looked heavier than that when he was training with Roshi and when Tao Pai Pai was able to throw a big stone pillar over hundreds of miles at super sonic speeds.

There's simply no real consistency.

Trying to push something and punching with weights are drastically different. Try punching while holding a dumbbell

[rereboy]

Trying to push something and punching with weights are drastically different. Try punching while holding a dumbbell

Doesn't matter. Base Goku in the Buu saga is literally millions of times stronger than he was training under Roshi. The difference between pushing and lifting doesn't cover that. And like it was already mentioned, Goku lifted a car that should be around a ton in the first chapter of the manga and yet he has trouble with lifting 40 tons while flying in the Buu saga, despite being millions of times stronger.

[RocktheDragon]

This thread reminds me of something I asked a friend the other night when we were watching Kai. It isn't directly "physics" related but it's close enough, and I don't want to start a new topic just for this observation.

I asked one of my friends about the smoke that is generated when Ki blasts hit opponents. In the anime this is done for dramatic effect when the smoke slowly clears and we slowly witness the outline of whoever has been hit. My buddy said that smoke being generated by the blast would be impossible since it would take a burning body to do so (and most of the time the characters are unharmed by Ki blasts).

[rereboy]

This thread reminds me of something I asked a friend the other night when we were watching Kai. It isn't directly "physics" related but it's close enough, and I don't want to start a new topic just for this observation.

I asked one of my friends about the smoke that is generated when Ki blasts hit opponents. In the anime this is done for dramatic effect when the smoke slowly clears and we slowly witness the outline of whoever has been hit. My buddy said that smoke being generated by the blast would be impossible since it would take a burning body to do so (and most of the time the characters are unharmed by Ki blasts).

Their bodies are protected by their own ki, like force fields. We see in the Namek saga that Vegeta could lower his defense on purpose so that Krillin could hurt him. Obviously he isn't lowering his muscle density, he is simply lowering his ki, making his body more vulnerable.

Also, the smoke could be just dust lifting or some molten rocks.

[RocktheDragon]

This thread reminds me of something I asked a friend the other night when we were watching Kai. It isn't directly "physics" related but it's close enough, and I don't want to start a new topic just for this observation.

I asked one of my friends about the smoke that is generated when Ki blasts hit opponents. In the anime this is done for dramatic effect when the smoke slowly clears and we slowly witness the outline of whoever has been hit. My buddy said that smoke being generated by the blast would be impossible since it would take a burning body to do so (and most of the time the characters are unharmed by Ki blasts).

Their bodies are protected by their own ki, like force fields. We see in the Namek saga that Vegeta could lower his defense on purpose so that Krillin could hurt him. Obviously he isn't lowering his muscle density, he is simply lowering his ki, making his body more vulnerable.

Also, the smoke could be just dust lifting or some molten rocks.

But the question is how could there be smoke without anything burning? Even with force fields?

And how about when someone ki blasts someone when they are in the air not surrounded by anything (the person being hit by ki)?

[rereboy]

But the question is how could there be smoke without anything burning? Even with force fields?

And how about when some ki blasts someone when they are in the air not surrounded by anything (the person being hit by ki)?

Like I said, could be just dust flying or smoke from something that became melted or molten with the blast.

When its just the person being hit, maybe their clothes or skin got a little singed and the art just exaggerates the smoke.

[Attitudefan]

Maybe their Ki shield is burned; thus, Ki against Ki creates a chemical reaction causing smoke.

[Mr.Judge]

Akira Toriyama is pretty clear and knowledgeable whenever he portrays something in his manga.But he introduces inconsistency as soon as he attaches a number to the Strength needed for these strength feats.

Take Kuririn for example.
He is faster and stronger than athletes but still in human range.After Kame sennin training, He reaches superhuman level of strength yet he struggles to train with insignificant weights like 20kg.
Mercenary Tao pai pai casually lifts a stone/marble pillar and throws it across a huge distance , yet Goku training with some mere hundred kg worth of weighted clothing is not gonna help him perform these moves.

So Basically strength performed/shown and the number attached to it, is totally contradictory.

[Tzigi]

This reminds me of a serious analysis of DB cosmos done by Salagir (you know, the creator of Dragon Ball Multiverse) where he points out that in DB stellar bodies are small and fragile.

[ABED]

Akira Toriyama is pretty clear and knowledgeable whenever he portrays something in his manga.But he introduces inconsistency as soon as he attaches a number to the Strength need for doing such things.

Take Kuririn for example.
He is faster and stronger than athletes but still in human range.After Kame sennin training, He reaches superhuman level of strength yet he struggles to train with insignificant weights like 20kg.
Mercenary Tao pai pai casually lifts a stone/marble pillar and throws it across a huge distance , yet Goku training with some mere hundred kg worth of weighted clothing is not gonna help him perform these moves.

So Basically strength performed/shown and the number attached to it, is totally contradictory.

Except the strength and speed that Kuririn and Goku exhibit even early on aren't in human range. Humans can't throw cars, and if someone fell off that cliff like Goku did when he and Kuririn when rock hunting, he would've died.

[Mr.Judge]

This reminds me of a serious analysis of DB cosmos done by Salagir (you know, the creator of Dragon Ball Multiverse) where he points out that in DB stellar bodies are small and fragile.

He based it off pixel-scaling which is definitely erroneous .A good Example would be the Height of Oozaru form of Goku changes from 'taller than Yamcha' to 'taller than Pilaf's Castle'.

[Tzigi]

This reminds me of a serious analysis of DB cosmos done by Salagir (you know, the creator of Dragon Ball Multiverse) where he points out that in DB stellar bodies are small and fragile.

He based it off pixel-scaling which is definitely erroneous .A good Example would be the Height of Oozaru form of Goku changes from 'taller than Yamcha' to 'taller than Pilaf's Castle'.

Why do you consider it erroneous? If you can see a curvature on a picture then you can extrapolate from the picture the diameter of the whole thing and then base measurements on this. Also that was by no means the only thing he based his points on.

[Mr.Judge]

This reminds me of a serious analysis of DB cosmos done by Salagir (you know, the creator of Dragon Ball Multiverse) where he points out that in DB stellar bodies are small and fragile.

He based it off pixel-scaling which is definitely erroneous .A good Example would be the Height of Oozaru form of Goku changes from 'taller than Yamcha' to 'taller than Pilaf's Castle'.

Why do you consider it erroneous? If you can see a curvature on a picture then you can extrapolate from the picture the diameter of the whole thing and then base measurements on this. Also that was by no means the only thing he based his points on.

So you think Akira Toriyama drew DB manga To Scale?

DB basic Premise is Such Immensely strong Characters exist on Earth yet Earth remains mostly unharmed.

A Popular Trope in Fiction which does act as a Double-Edged Sword.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ticLicense

Salagir basically ignores or rather disregards 'Artistic license' Trope and comes to the conclusion that DB fighters have nowhere the strength needed to destroy the moon, so the stellar objects are near and nowhere the original size.Alternatively he is saying Piccolo can nuke islands but can't destroy moon.
May be he too concluded above based on the numbers given to strength by Akira Toriyama.

Indirectly he is conveying either they have that kind of strength or they don't.

Here is his original quote

What power is needed to destroy an enormous mass like the Moon? Something amazingly giant. All the countries of the world could empty their whole nuclear weapons on it, they would just reorganize the craters on the surface. In fact, in mass, I would say we can admin that the Moon weight as much as a continent, like the USAs or Europe.

......With a movement of the hand, they can move England!

It's then crystal clear that their power can't do this, and they are far from having the necessary strenght to destroy a whole country, but just enough (for Piccolo), to nuke a small island. So the guilty one here is the Moon. The Moon is a tiny round object that floats at 200 meters high in the sky.

[Tzigi]

So you think Akira Toriyama drew DB manga To Scale?

Why do you feel the need to randomly capitalize words (even verbs)?

And the whole point is that the pictures aren't done to scale but one can try to analyse them as if they were. That's the same thing as this whole topic - the feats weren't meant by Toriyama to be considered as a coherent system. But we are doing precisely this (and in fact this makes this thread an "In-Universe" one) so we are in the same way free to consider the way stellar objects are drawn as another coherent system - and point the discrepancies between our world and the DB one.