Why didn't Akira Toriyama just introduce Gogeta instead?

[Rocketman]

Seriously? You are inventing a basic math inconsistency for your own convenience?

No, I am rejecting your mathsucking. It doesn't make sense mathematically because it is not mathematical.

[miguelnuva1]

Just for the record tens of times more powerful is at least two 10x. For it to be one 10x it would read ten times more powerful not tens of times more powerful.

Secondly I thought the statement was dozens of times more powerful.

Finally Old Kai means the type of fusion is strongest.

Rival Boost Potara> Potara> Dance.

Goku would be fusing with Ultimate Gohan which would make Gokhan strong enough to take out Buutenks. He most likley would have been able to go SSJ on top of receiving Gohan's huge power because Gohan is Ultimate and Goku is not thus the fusion would not.

Vegito goes SSJ against Buuhan and then questions how he can beat Buu as easily as he was doing which means Vegito thought even as a SSJ the fight was going to be closer.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I feel like the only thing they could have been talking about is a Goku battle power times Vegeta's. I mean during that point in the story that was the most important thing. Let Goku find a suitable fusion partner who could create a powerful result. Which is why he considered Tenshinhan over Mark, because he not only had a understanding of martial arts but his BP is obviously much higher.

But if Potara is AxB, then Goku would have definitely not get weaker or the same if he was to merge with Mr. Satan.

Seriously? You are inventing a basic math inconsistency for your own convenience?

No, I am rejecting your mathsucking. It doesn't make sense mathematically because it is not mathematical.

It's not just the math, it's the fact that Toriyama was consistent with battle powers (not talking about the numbers). SS Gogeta being so much stronger than SS3 Gotenks is like having Kuririn fighting evenly with SS Goku. It's the common sense established in the series that contradicts this, not just when you are trying to apply math.

Goku would be fusing with Ultimate Gohan which would make Gokhan strong enough to take out Buutenks. He most likley would have been able to go SSJ on top of receiving Gohan's huge power because Gohan is Ultimate and Goku is not thus the fusion would not.

That could be possible. But Rou Kaioshin says nothing about Gohan's Ultimate state contributing to it. Instead, he places all the emphasis to the Potara being so extreme, that Super Saiyan won't even be needed. And we already know that base & Ultimate, while they are the same form, they are different states, from the fact that Goku was going to use Fusion with Gohan, and Fusion requires similar powers, which Goku & Gohan only have in base, Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 2, not in Super Saiyan 3 or Ultimate. Plus, the way Rou Kaioshin talks about Vegetto, it gives me the feeling that Vegetto is stronger than Gokhan would have been.

Vegito goes SSJ against Buuhan and then questions how he can beat Buu as easily as he was doing which means Vegito thought even as a SSJ the fight was going to be closer.

Not necessarily. It could also mean something like "wow, I'm not x2 stronger than him, I'm actually x20!".

[Sanity's_Theif]

I think the point is more that if Toriyama never had any reason to devise the Potara in the first place, we've got no good reason to presume a Goku-Vegeta Dance Fusion wouldn't instead be enough to beat Boo. It's a matter of taking off the power levels "logic" glasses and looking at the narrative aspect.

Yeah, maybe Toriyama would have had "Gogeta" need Super Saiyan 3 to do it or something, but the narrative message of "a Goku-Vegeta Fusion is super powerful and like the most totally awesome fighter ever" would definitely take precedence over making something that power levels analysts would find consistent.

There's a reason why when I make power level lists I typically don't even bother assigning numbers to Vegetto OR Gogeta.

No offense to anyone else, but this is the only statement that makes any sense here, everyone else seems to be just defending fan power level logic with..... fan power level logic

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yeah, maybe Toriyama would have had "Gogeta" need Super Saiyan 3 to do it or something, but the narrative message of "a Goku-Vegeta Fusion is super powerful and like the most totally awesome fighter ever" would definitely take precedence over making something that power levels analysts would find consistent.

Has this ever happened before in the manga?

[IIMaxII]

I feel as if the way Gogeta is portrayed is that he is more Goku than Vegeta, while they way Vegito is portrayed is that he's more Vegeta than Goku. I'm saying this because, Gogeta is portrayed more as a silly person, while Vegito is portrayed as more cocky. Although it's a tossup since both fusions share the most obvious traits of Goku and Vegeta.

[DieHard]

Yeah, maybe Toriyama would have had "Gogeta" need Super Saiyan 3 to do it or something, but the narrative message of "a Goku-Vegeta Fusion is super powerful and like the most totally awesome fighter ever" would definitely take precedence over making something that power levels analysts would find consistent.

Has this ever happened before in the manga?

Yes,kamisama power level is just a few hundreds,yet piccolo got a huge boost cuz "piccolo and kamisama were once the same person.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yeah, maybe Toriyama would have had "Gogeta" need Super Saiyan 3 to do it or something, but the narrative message of "a Goku-Vegeta Fusion is super powerful and like the most totally awesome fighter ever" would definitely take precedence over making something that power levels analysts would find consistent.

Has this ever happened before in the manga?

Yes,kamisama power level is just a few hundreds,yet piccolo got a huge boost cuz "piccolo and kamisama were once the same person.

This is different, we got an explanation there at least, and we know that Namekian Assimilation adds & multiplies the powers. There have been ridiculous power-ups in the series, but we do get an explanation for each of them.

But saying that Gogeta would be so much stronger than Gotenks would be like having base Goku < base Vegeta in Freeza arc, then Vegeta would transform into SS against Freeza, but he would die, so Goku would also turn SS, and he would beat Freeza because "plot". Such a thing has never happened.

[miguelnuva1]

Yeah, maybe Toriyama would have had "Gogeta" need Super Saiyan 3 to do it or something, but the narrative message of "a Goku-Vegeta Fusion is super powerful and like the most totally awesome fighter ever" would definitely take precedence over making something that power levels analysts would find consistent.

Has this ever happened before in the manga?

Yes,kamisama power level is just a few hundreds,yet piccolo got a huge boost cuz "piccolo and kamisama were once the same person.

This is different, we got an explanation there at least, and we know that Namekian Assimilation adds & multiplies the powers. There have been ridiculous power-ups in the series, but we do get an explanation for each of them.

But saying that Gogeta would be so much stronger than Gotenks would be like having base Goku < base Vegeta in Freeza arc, then Vegeta would transform into SS against Freeza, but he would die, so Goku would also turn SS, and he would beat Freeza because "plot". Such a thing has never happened.[/quote]

I know some people who would say Goku would get a bigger boost to beat Frieza because they believe ssj is an addition boost.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I know some people who would say Goku would get a bigger boost to beat Freeza because they believe ssj is an addition boost.

And they are wrong. From the fight with Freeza to the fight with Super Yi Xing Long, Super Saiyan gives a x50 boost for everyone. (Except if it's Goku after BoG.) This is confirmed in various guidebooks, and it's even accepted by Toriyama.

[miguelnuva1]

I know some people who would say Goku would get a bigger boost to beat Freeza because they believe ssj is an addition boost.

And they are wrong. From the fight with Freeza to the fight with Super Yi Xing Long, Super Saiyan gives a x50 boost for everyone. (Except if it's Goku after BoG.) This is confirmed in various guidebooks, and it's even accepted by Toriyama.

I ago with 50x myself but the are some that I no because it was never said to be 50x in the manga and in GT is is directly stated to an increase of 2 or 3x.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

in GT is is directly stated to an increase of 2 or 3x.

That's not true.

[KentalSSJ6]

in GT is is directly stated to an increase of 2 or 3x.

That's not true.

Well in the English Dub of GT they had a error where Goku goes Super Saiyan against Rildo. Rildo says Goku's power increased 100 fold but Goke was a SSJ1, and not a SSJ2. Wouldn't be surprised if other errors like that popped up here and there.

[Puto]

I would like to just remind everyone that the multiplication numbers for Super Saiyan levels were established after the series was over in guidebooks from looking over the manga, and not something that Toriyama had firmly in his mind when writing the story.

This is different, we got an explanation there at least, and we know that Namekian Assimilation adds & multiplies the powers. There have been ridiculous power-ups in the series, but we do get an explanation for each of them.

Yes, and Toriyama would just as easily invent an explanation for Gogeta to be ultra-strong too. The same way he came up with the ‘rival boost’ thing for the Potara, he'd come up with something equally random to explain Gogeta being invincibly ridiculously strong.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I would like to just remind everyone that the multiplication numbers for Super Saiyan levels were established after the series was over in guidebooks from looking over the manga, and not something that Toriyama had firmly in his mind when writing the story.

We know that Toriyama had the x10 multiplier for SS in his mind, and it was even implied in the manga that SS was a multiplier.

Yes, and Toriyama would just as easily invent an explanation for Gogeta to be ultra-strong too.

Or, maybe he would create a new, weaker Boo. You can't know what he would do, and whatever he had in his mind, never happened. So, from what we have now, there is nothing that suggests for Goku & Vegeta to get a greater boost that Goten & Trunks.

[miguelnuva1]

in GT is is directly stated to an increase of 2 or 3x.

That's not true.

When Goku transforms Rildo says Goku's power doubled or he had been fighting with half his power. This was in the jap version.

[TheGmGoken]

in GT is is directly stated to an increase of 2 or 3x.

That's not true.

When Goku transforms Rildo says Goku's power doubled or he had been fighting with half his power. This was in the jap version.

Don't say the word Jap. Its sorta racist. Gt guidebook state its 50x i believe

[DBZGTKOSDH]

in GT is is directly stated to an increase of 2 or 3x.

That's not true.

When Goku transforms Rildo says Goku's power doubled or he had been fighting with half his power. This was in the jap version.

No, he said that Goku was hiding more than half of his strength. And x50 is more than half of his strength. Even the GT Perfect Files confirm that SS is a x50 boost.