Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[EmmaWinters]

The one-year limitation only applies to large groups of people.

And the DB's are supposed to give 2 wishes now, but that was either retconned or just forgotten about in BoG.

They're supposed to get three wishes now, but you're right, Shenlong says that he will grant "any wish". This was a mistake.

Rules can certainly change.

They have no reason to cripple the dragon's wishing power. Even if for some bizarre reason they added a one-year limitation that never existed, and then dropped the wishes back down to one, Freeza's men have no way of knowing this. If they made Freeza an artificial body, they did it independently; they have no way of knowing about any of these restrictions or lack thereof.

and Dende made it so Shenron can revive the same person multiple times.

Hmm
This i don't recall.

It was in the stipulations when Dende was recreating the Dragon Balls for them. He said that by doing so he would have to limit the wishes to 2 instead of 3, as they first asked if they could have 3 wishes like Purunga.

It's actually very convoluted. We have three wishes now, but I believe two was the original intent. Batch revives now count as two wishes. I wrote about this awhile back.

• When Dende recreated Shenlong just before the Cell Games, everyone wants three wishes. Dende says he can do that. No problem.
• Piccolo then asks if Dende can make it so that one wish could bring many people back to life.
• Dende says that he can adjust it to accommodate batch revives, but if he does that, they will only have two wishes, not three. Here's where it gets complicated.
• I checked the original Japanese on this. It is strongly implied that once created, the Dragon grants only two wishes. Even the scriptwriter for the anime assumes it's two wishes (In the manga, Shenlong never speaks until after reviving those killed by Cell). I believe two wishes was Toriyama's intention at this point.

So, Shenlong grants the two wishes (batch revive, remove the bombs), and fucks off. Fast forward to the Buu arc.

• When summoned, Shenlong states he will grant three wishes, not two. If you're like me, and the anime's scriptwriter, right now you're thinking "three wishes!? what the fuck!?". Anyway, three wishes now.

• Bulma wishes back everyone Vegeta killed that day. After the wish was made, Dende (who knew what the wish was going to be before it was made), claims there are still two wishes left. He would know, right? He made the damn things.

• Fast forward to when Majin Buu is about to level West City. Bulma's parents are going to be caught in the destruction. Goku says that they can use the two remaining wishes to A. Bring her parents back to life, and B. Restore the city as it was. Piccolo then contradicts what Dende says several chapters earlier and claims "nope, reviving all of those people means we only have one wish left."

Just to be absolutely certain Viz didn't mess this up, I checked the original Japanese for this panel:
いや ちがうぞ ひとつめの願いで多くの人間を 生きかえらせち まったから つきに かなえられる 願いは あとひとつだけだ

Which is basically:
"No we can't. After using the first wish to bring back all of those people, only one wish will remain."

So apparently, Shenlong can grant three wishes, but if you wish back multiple people, it will drop to two. It's up to you if you want to believe that this was always Toriyama's intention, but I think he fucked up and tried to fix it later.

So there you have it. Regardless of whether it was two or three wishes in the Cell arc, in the Buu arc, it's three wishes total, unless you wish back groups of people; then it's only two wishes, because batch revives count as two wishes, not one.

Edit: Formatting

[Zelvin]

[quote="FatNagger69"}This was a mistake.[/quote]

So basically, reviving individuals is one wish apiece. Larger wishes (cities/worlds, multiple revivals) cost 2 wishes from Shenron. Which would say Purunga still one-ups Shenron, since one wish restored the Earth, 2nd wish restored the population and everything on it, and there was still a 3rd to restore Goku's energy with. It feels like Toriyama wanted to limit Shenron to two, and things got mixed up.

But that's not true at all. They never made one wish in Battle of Gods. They asked about SSJ God, he found out about Beerus, told them, then ran with his giant tail between his tiny legs.

Technically they did make one wish. When Shenron he couldn't bring the Super Saiyan God to them, Goku then asked him to explain what it was and how to create one. Technically that counts as a wish.

[Kamiccolo9]

Technically they did make one wish. When Shenron he couldn't bring the Super Saiyan God to them, Goku then asked him to explain what it was and how to create one. Technically that counts as a wish.

Why? He didn't do the "your wish has been granted" thing, and his eyes didn't glow red. He gave off none of the signs of granting a wish.

[Chuquita]

The Freeza-message page on the website was updated/saved on their end today, but I don't see anything new. The New Years message had been there already.

This may just be info-starved navel-gazing, but how it was said at Jump Festa that Gokû won't go ssj; was that based on that line of dialogue Gokû says to Freeza about not needing to transform to beat him, or was this something stated outside of the dialogue as well?

Because if he just says that because he's confident, then gets his beaten in base, that wouldn't mean he wouldn't whip out ssj1 in a second round, would it? He used ssj1 after dropping out of ssjg the first time in BOG, and Toriyama said no to 2 and 3, but technically he hasn't banished ssj1 from Gokû (yet?).

[EmmaWinters]

Technically they did make one wish. When Shenron he couldn't bring the Super Saiyan God to them, Goku then asked him to explain what it was and how to create one. Technically that counts as a wish.

Why? He didn't do the "your wish has been granted" thing, and his eyes didn't glow red. He gave off none of the signs of granting a wish.

Shenlong says that he will grant "any wish", and then leaves after doing what was asked of him. That's enough for me.

[Hellspawn28]

Anyone here the new rumor now that Vegito defeats Freeza.

Why? That rumor makes no sense since Goku only fused with Vegito in order to save Gohan and the others inside of Buu. He's only a plot device and there's no reason for Vegito to return.

[MajinAsura]

The Freeza-message page on the website was updated/saved on their end today, but I don't see anything new. The New Years message had been there already.

This may just be info-starved navel-gazing, but how it was said at Jump Festa that Gokû won't go ssj; was that based on that line of dialogue Gokû says to Freeza about not needing to transform to beat him, or was this something stated outside of the dialogue as well?

Because if he just says that because he's confident, then gets his beaten in base, that wouldn't mean he wouldn't whip out ssj1 in a second round, would it? He used ssj1 after dropping out of ssjg the first time in BOG, and Toriyama said no to 2 and 3, but technically he hasn't banished ssj1 from Gokû (yet?).

They wouldn't take away ssj1. It's too iconic and ultimately useful.

[Chuquita]

The Freeza-message page on the website was updated/saved on their end today, but I don't see anything new. The New Years message had been there already.

This may just be info-starved navel-gazing, but how it was said at Jump Festa that Gokû won't go ssj; was that based on that line of dialogue Gokû says to Freeza about not needing to transform to beat him, or was this something stated outside of the dialogue as well?

Because if he just says that because he's confident, then gets his beaten in base, that wouldn't mean he wouldn't whip out ssj1 in a second round, would it? He used ssj1 after dropping out of ssjg the first time in BOG, and Toriyama said no to 2 and 3, but technically he hasn't banished ssj1 from Gokû (yet?).

They wouldn't take away ssj1. It's too iconic and ultimately useful.

That's what I'm thinking, now that I've seen the source dialogue itself.

Also there's still that original ssj1 Gokû teaser image being used on the dragonball2015 site itself. He's on the introduction page: http://dragonball2015.com/intro/
I think the "no ssj at all for Gokû" may have been a misunderstanding.

[fadeddreams5]

SSJ1 is more likely to appear than SSJG.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

The Freeza-message page on the website was updated/saved on their end today, but I don't see anything new. The New Years message had been there already.

This may just be info-starved navel-gazing, but how it was said at Jump Festa that Gokû won't go ssj; was that based on that line of dialogue Gokû says to Freeza about not needing to transform to beat him, or was this something stated outside of the dialogue as well?

Because if he just says that because he's confident, then gets his beaten in base, that wouldn't mean he wouldn't whip out ssj1 in a second round, would it? He used ssj1 after dropping out of ssjg the first time in BOG, and Toriyama said no to 2 and 3, but technically he hasn't banished ssj1 from Gokû (yet?).

They wouldn't take away ssj1. It's too iconic and ultimately useful.

That's what I'm thinking, now that I've seen the source dialogue itself.

Also there's still that original ssj1 Gokû teaser image being used on the dragonball2015 site itself. He's on the introduction page: http://dragonball2015.com/intro/
I think the "no ssj at all for Gokû" may have been a misunderstanding.

Not to mention the clip from the first teaser with him powering up into one. Either that scene isn't related anymore or Goku just doesnt use SSJ after he gets his new Dogi.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Not to mention the clip from the first teaser with him powering up into one. Either that scene isn't related anymore or Goku just doesnt use SSJ after he gets his new Dogi.

That first teaser though probably has no actual story merit to speak of, just like the first one we got for Battle of Gods.

[dbzfan7]

Don't like SSJ going away when it's the legend that struck fear into Freeza's soul. It would be more satisfying IMO if Freeza did beat or fought the one thing that has always scared him. The fear of the Super Saiyan is what lead him to destroying the saiyans in the first place. So to not have SSJ Goku fight just irks me. I understand why, but I was really looking forward to the rematch.

[EmmaWinters]

That's what I'm thinking, now that I've seen the source dialogue itself. ... I think the "no ssj at all for Gokû" may have been a misunderstanding.

If that exchange is where the rumor came from, then I agree, that's not really enough to say that his Super Saiyan form isn't in the movie at all.

[DragonbaIlZ]

I bet Freeza or someone will have some sort of flashback of Goku as a SSJ. That counts, right?

[Black_Liger]

Reading about Tagoma and Sorbet transplanting Freeza's Soul into a new body..

How about, they find Freeza's Reincarnation, he has been reincarnated as a good person, however once they find him, they turn him back into an evil mastermind, THEN they use the dragon balls to transplant his soul into his new body.

This would also tells us as to why Goku knew that buu would reincarnate.

[ArchedThunder]

I think Freeza most likely trains after he got wish back to life. He heads back to his Planet and starts training for a whole year to catch up with Goku and the others. Tagoma and Sorbet most likely brought Freeza back to life when no one was around to notice.

I would like it to be this way. Even if Freeza is mutant and he can increase his strenth way better than any other life-form in the universe, not even then I would accept to catch up with Goku traning several days only. 2-3 years with his amazing potential would be plausible.

I'm guessing Freeza gets the God power and trains with it so his body can catch up; and through that training the God power gives him a new transformation to support the boost: as cooler did finding his giant form. Most likely Freeza's Final form is on par with Post-Buu Goku(Base), they fight a wild battle akin to their first fight then his God form outclasses him & Beerus incredibly when he transforms. At least thats what I hope.

Didn't Beerus say that Goku wouldn't be able to beat Freeza in his base form in BoG?

That's what I'm thinking, now that I've seen the source dialogue itself.
.

Sorry, but what was the source dialogue?

[JamesOwnz]

Anyone here the new rumor now that Vegito defeats Freeza.

Why? That rumor makes no sense since Goku only fused with Vegito in order to save Gohan and the others inside of Buu. He's only a plot device and there's no reason for Vegito to return.

Vegito is very, VERY popular with fans.. so not a surprise to see this rumor.

He was even mentioned in BoG.

[Blade]

Anyone here the new rumor now that Vegito defeats Freeza.

Why? That rumor makes no sense since Goku only fused with Vegito in order to save Gohan and the others inside of Buu. He's only a plot device and there's no reason for Vegito to return.

Vegito is very, VERY popular with fans.. so not a surprise to see this rumor.

He was even mentioned in BoG.

Not exactly. In the extended edition, Goku momentarily ponders fusion with Vegeta, but he may have been referring to the Fusion dance method for all we know.

[Low Tone G]

Didn't Beerus say that Goku wouldn't be able to beat Freeza in his base form in BoG?

Yeah, but the Base Goku in this film is the not same Beerus had been talking about. That Base Goke was normal Goku without any God power, but this Goku is a God Goku with God power absorbed and used in his Base form. So technically this Goku is of the same strength(or not even stronger due to training with Whis) like SSJ God Goku from BOG. In that way Freeza is way way way waaaay below him.

Not exactly. In the extended edition, Goku momentarily ponders fusion with Vegeta, but he may have been referring to the Fusion dance method for all we know.

Then Vegetto was also useless because he would have been too weak for Beerus, but now a God fusion of Goku and Vegeta would be useful. A God Vegetto is useful now if Vegeta will become God too.

[ArchedThunder]

Didn't Beerus say that Goku wouldn't be able to beat Freeza in his base form in BoG?

Yeah, but the Base Goku in this film is the the same Beerus had been talking about. That Base Goke was normal Goku without any God power, but this Goku is a God Goku with God power absorbed and used in his Base form. So technically this Goku is of the same strength(or not even stronger due to training with Whis) like SSJ God Goku from BOG. In that way Freeza is way way way waaaay below him.

SingleFringe&Sparks said post Buu Goku, not post BoG Goku.