How many times stronger is Ultimate Gohan than SS3 Goku?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

How many times stronger is Ultimate Gohan than SS3 Goku (in the Boo arc)?

[Regarder]

SS3 Goku (regular power) = Pure Buu.
Super Buu = at least Pure Buu/SS3 Goku + Good Buu (critical information)
Good Buu > SS2 Vegeta (likely, based on performance against Pure Buu). Let's assume Buu = Vegeta, for a minimum.

So...

Chou Gohan > Super Buu = SS3 Goku + SS2 Vegeta

and

SS3 Goku = 4 x SS2 Vegeta (roughly)

therefore

Chou Gohan > Super Buu = 1.25 x SS3 Goku

However, Good Buu could be a lot more than Vegeta. I think the limit for Super Buu is lower than twice Goku, since that assumes Good Buu is actually equal to Pure Buu, which we know to not be true.

Pure Buu > Good Buu > Vegeta

MAX/MIN:
Gohan > Super Buu = 2 x Goku
or
Gohan > Super Buu = 1.25 x Goku


We can refine these a little more too, because we know that Gohan can beat Super Buu with Piccolo and the kids added on, but not Super Buu with Piccolo and Gotenks. Super Buu pretty much doubling his power (assumption: Super Buu = SS3 Gotenks) is too much for Gohan, but Super Buu adding two SS characters and Piccolo can still be handled, which is sort of the same as adding on another SS2, since SS2 = 2 x SS, and the kids are supposed to be close to the adults. Piccolo might make up that little bit.

Super Buu + SS3 Gotenks (approx 2 x Super Buu) > Gohan > Super Buu + Piccolo + kids (approx Super Buu + SS2 Vegeta) > Super Buu = SS3 Gotenks > SS3 Goku (supposed full power) > SS3 Goku = Pure Buu

So...

REFINED MAX/MIN:
(Good Buu = Pure Buu: impossible limit)
>4 x Goku (Super Buu Gotenks) > Gohan > 2.25 x Goku (Super Buu Piccolo) > 2 x Goku (Super Buu)
(Good Buu = SS2 Vegeta: unlikely lower end)
>2.5 x Goku (Super Buu Gotenks) > Gohan > 1.5 x Goku (Super Buu Piccolo) > 1.25 x Goku (Super Buu)

To the best of my ability to estimate, then, Gohan was in the range 4-1.5 x the power of SS3 Goku against Pure Buu.

[Darkprince410]

Assuming that Goku didn't make a grave error in how strong he thought Gotenks would be, we can assume that Ssj Gotenks, before the boys enter the Room of Spirit and Time, is at least stronger than Ssj2 Ma-jin Vegeta, and potentially stronger than Ssj3 Goku. For the sake of argument, we'll just go with stronger than Ma-jin Vegeta.

Ssj Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) > Ssj2 Ma-jin Vegeta = Ssj2 Goku

After Evil Buu forms, Piccolo comments that Gotenks stands no chance against him at his current level of power.

Evil Buu > Ssj Gotenks (pre-RoSaT)

After the boys train in the Room of Spirit and Time, Piccolo, after seeing them fuse in their base form (and subsequently stating he didn't know they could transform after fusing), makes a passing comment suggesting that base Gotenks is now at a level above Ssj Gotenks (pre)

Gotenks (post) > Ssj Gotenks (pre) > Ssj2 Goku

Now, some people argue against the Ssj multipliers being the same for Gotenks as they are for Goku and other non-fused beings, but since there's nothing concrete really suggesting such, we can assume then that Ssj3 Gotenks is 400x that of base Gotenks.

Ssj3 Gotenks = 400x base Gotenks > Ssj2 Goku

As such, Ssj3 Gotenks > 100x Ssj3 Goku

Since statements suggest that Evil Buu is roughly equal to that of Ssj3 Gotenks, and that Gohan is stronger than Evil Buu, but weaker than Gotenks Buu, we can probably put Gohan at about 1.5x that of Ssj3 Gotenks. As such, that would put Gohan at over 150x that of Ssj3 Goku.

Now, if we went with the notion of Ssj Gotenks (pre) being stronger than Ssj3 Goku, that'd put Gohan at over 600x that of Ssj3 Goku.

[Regarder]

After the boys train in the Room of Spirit and Time, Piccolo, after seeing them fuse in their base form (and subsequently stating he didn't know they could transform after fusing), makes a passing comment suggesting that base Gotenks is now at a level above Ssj Gotenks (pre)

You see, I think "passing comment" is right. I think people put too much stock in that comment as a measure of power. There's no feat there which qualifies it either.

[Darkprince410]

After the boys train in the Room of Spirit and Time, Piccolo, after seeing them fuse in their base form (and subsequently stating he didn't know they could transform after fusing), makes a passing comment suggesting that base Gotenks is now at a level above Ssj Gotenks (pre)

You see, I think "passing comment" is right. I think people put too much stock in that comment as a measure of power. There's no feat there which qualifies it either.

At the same time, there's no reason to outright disregard it. It doesn't make sense for Piccolo, knowing full well that Ssj Gotenks couldn't have beaten Evil Buu before they entered, to make such a comment unless he sensed that base Gotenks's strength had increased considerably. He didn't know Gotenks was able to transform after fusing, so he couldn't have made the comment based on where he assessed Ssj Gotenks (post) would be.

[Low Tone G]

Goku stated that the next opponent(Gotenks) of Fat Buu after their traning will be stronger than himself(And Goku later reveales that he was able to kill Fat Buu). So I'd imagine Goku meant SSJ Gotenks post-Rosat traninig to at least one day could have killed Fat Buu with ease. So Goku underestimated the fusion dance a little, because Gotenks was able to ascend to SSJ3 in a way shorter time. So Goku was basing on Super Gotenks to surpass him. So I'd say Super Gotenks is 1.25x SSJ3 Goku. (In BOG is shown Toriyama's concept about power gaps, so it was revealed that a 40% gap between powers it's enough to totally dominate the opponent). If the multipliers are consistent then SSJ3 Gotenks is at least 10X stronger than SSJ3 Goku. If Super Buu was equal with him(I believe SSJ3 Gotenks was stronger) then I'd imagine Gohan was 1.5 stronger than both of them if he could dominate Super Buu in that way he did.

So I'd imagine a power gap of 15x between SSJ3 Goku from Buu saga and Ultimate/Mystic Gohan.

[Darkprince410]

Goku stated that the next opponent(Gotenks) of Fat Buu after their traning will be stronger than himself(And Goku later reveales that he was able to kill Fat Buu). So I'd imagine Goku meant SSJ Gotenks post-Rosat traninig to at least one day could have killed Fat Buu with ease.

Piccolo brought up that the boys should use the Room of Spirit and TIme to train to learn the Fusion Dance, but Goku commented that they should save it for if they really needed it, and that the fusion dance by itself would be more than enough to defeat Buu. As such, Goku's assessment of how powerful Gotenks would be is based solely on how the boys are now.

[Cursed Lemon]

I think it's really important to note that DBZ characters have a long history of both being able and NOT being able to sense the true power potential of their friends and foes.

It's hard to work off a precedent there.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

What's funny is Goku never even told Fat Boo Gotenks would be stronger than himself. Goku tells Piccolo that he told Fat Boo that. Either way, Super Saiyan Gotenks doesn't need to be stronger than Goku to defeat Fat Boo. I think he is post-rosat, though. As for Gohan, I'd just say his power is many levels greater than Goku's.

[KentalSSJ6]

If Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks and SSJ3 > X8 SSJ1, Id say Gohan is at least 10X stronger than his SSJ3 dad.

[Hugo Boss]

Considering how Boo powered up since he fought Goku, I would say Gohan is supposed to have about 2 times the strenght of Goku.

In "Wrath of the Dragon" and "Battle of Gods" though, it's highly suggested Goku was the strongest there was around just before Beerus show up.

[dbzfan7]

I go around 8X as bloating just makes things seem out of proportion. I can't imagine Toriyama thinking to make someone thousands or hundreds of times stronger on purpose. Even with my 8X ball park, I wouldn't be surprised if it was lowered to like 3x or 2x in reality somehow....and at this point I wouldn't be shocked if he came out and said Goku for some reason was strongest.

[singsing]

I myself am perfectly okay with SSJ Gotenks > Fat Boo ~ 1/2 of SSJ3 Goku.

SSJ Gotenks = 1.5
SSJ3 Gotenks (Pre) = 12
Fat Boo = 1
Super Boo = 13 or 14
SSJ3 Gotenks (Post) = 13 or 14
SSJ3 Goku = 2
Ultimate Gohan = 16

So Gohan is 8x Goku at a minimum IMO.

[ZazamPow]

SS3 Goku (regular power) = Pure Buu.
Super Buu = at least Pure Buu/SS3 Goku + Good Buu (critical information)
Good Buu > SS2 Vegeta (likely, based on performance against Pure Buu). Let's assume Buu = Vegeta, for a minimum.

So...

Chou Gohan > Super Buu = SS3 Goku + SS2 Vegeta

and

SS3 Goku = 4 x SS2 Vegeta (roughly)

therefore

Chou Gohan > Super Buu = 1.25 x SS3 Goku

However, Good Buu could be a lot more than Vegeta. I think the limit for Super Buu is lower than twice Goku, since that assumes Good Buu is actually equal to Pure Buu, which we know to not be true.

Pure Buu > Good Buu > Vegeta

MAX/MIN:
Gohan > Super Buu = 2 x Goku
or
Gohan > Super Buu = 1.25 x Goku


We can refine these a little more too, because we know that Gohan can beat Super Buu with Piccolo and the kids added on, but not Super Buu with Piccolo and Gotenks. Super Buu pretty much doubling his power (assumption: Super Buu = SS3 Gotenks) is too much for Gohan, but Super Buu adding two SS characters and Piccolo can still be handled, which is sort of the same as adding on another SS2, since SS2 = 2 x SS, and the kids are supposed to be close to the adults. Piccolo might make up that little bit.

Super Buu + SS3 Gotenks (approx 2 x Super Buu) > Gohan > Super Buu + Piccolo + kids (approx Super Buu + SS2 Vegeta) > Super Buu = SS3 Gotenks > SS3 Goku (supposed full power) > SS3 Goku = Pure Buu

So...

REFINED MAX/MIN:
(Good Buu = Pure Buu: impossible limit)
>4 x Goku (Super Buu Gotenks) > Gohan > 2.25 x Goku (Super Buu Piccolo) > 2 x Goku (Super Buu)
(Good Buu = SS2 Vegeta: unlikely lower end)
>2.5 x Goku (Super Buu Gotenks) > Gohan > 1.5 x Goku (Super Buu Piccolo) > 1.25 x Goku (Super Buu)

To the best of my ability to estimate, then, Gohan was in the range 4-1.5 x the power of SS3 Goku against Pure Buu.

wat

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Son Goku
~Super Saiyan 3 - 520,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~Ultimate - 22,000,000,000,000

lol

[CatouttaHell]

Around 1,500 times stronger.

SSj3 Goku - 1

SSj Gotenks (Pre) - 1.25

SSj Gotenks (Expected) - 1.8

base Gotenks (Post) - 2.8
SSj Gotenks (Post) - 140
SSj2 Gotenks - 280
SSj3 Gotenks - 1,120

Ultimate Gohan - 1,540

[Regarder]

wat

It's simple.

Super Buu/Evil Buu is Good Buu + Pure Buu/Kid Buu, at least.

Goku SS3 (without powering up for a minute) was on the level of Pure Buu, so how strong Super Buu is depends on how strong Good Buu is (Good Buu is def weaker than Pure Buu, but seems stronger than SS2 Vegeta, so Super Buu should be stronger than Goku + Vegeta, but weaker than 2 x Goku). Gohan is stronger than that level.

Super Buu is around the level of SS3 Gotenks, so Gotenks Buu is approx a two times increase on Super Buu. Gohan is weaker than that level.

However, Gohan is still stronger than Piccolo + kids Buu (2 SSs and Piccolo added to Super Buu), so Gohan's power is between that Buu and Gotenks Buu, and we have an idea of how much strength they have compared to Goku based off Pure Buu + Good Buu + others.

You can bloat the power a lot more by saying that base Gotenks was stronger than SS3 Goku (because of Piccolo's comment), but if so then Super Buu is Good Buu + Pure Buu + ABSOLUTELY ASTRONOMICAL TONS OF CRAZY TONS OF POWER THAT DISAPPEARED HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH REMOVING GOOD BUU at this point.

[RandomGuy96]

You can bloat the power a lot more by saying that base Gotenks was stronger than SS3 Goku (because of Piccolo's comment), but if so then Super Buu is Good Buu + Pure Buu + ABSOLUTELY ASTRONOMICAL TONS OF CRAZY TONS OF POWER THAT DISAPPEARED HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH REMOVING GOOD BUU at this point.

Unless fusions get different Super Saiyan boosts (which, granted, wouldn't be too unlikely considering the SS Gotenks vs Super Buu fight, and Vegetto's statements), then the latter option has to be true for the beginning stretch of the story to make any sense. Anyway... if you're going purely by the addition route (Pure Buu's ki + Mr. Buu's ki = Super Buu's ki), then Super Buu should be close-to-but-not-quite x2 SS3 Goku, since Mr. Buu was able to put up a decent fight against Pure Buu. But then, of course, you'd have to answer the question of why Mr. Buu is weaker than South Kaioshin (Pure Buu + SK = Buff Buu > Super Buu) when Mr. Buu is just South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin merged by Majin skin.

Well, anyway, mildly related. Here's how it would work out for me if I applied some of my own theories to this logic:

Pure Buu [30] + South Kaioshin [30] = Buff Buu [60].
-Buu found his first challenge in the South Kaioshin, and after fighting evenly with him for a while, wore him down and absorbed him to become stronger.

Buff Buu [60] - Dai Kaioshin [6] = Fat Buu full power [54].
-Dai Kaioshin weakens Buu somewhat, but more importantly, drastically changes his personality. This causes Buu to subconsciously seal away most of his power.

Dai Kaioshin [6] = Initial Fat Buu [6] ---> Annoyed Fat Buu [9] ---> Angered Fat Buu [15] ---> Enraged Fat Buu [54].
-Buu starts out as equal to the creature he was modeled after. But as his negative emotions take over (i.e. "rage boosts"), he taps into more and more of his evil side's power. This goes on until, in a fit of rage, he reaches the peak of his power and splits up.

Pure Evil Buu = Pure Buu [30] + evil South Kaioshin ki [4]
Good Buu [20] = Dai Kaioshin [6] + good remaining South Kaioshin ki [14]
Good Buu [20] + Pure Evil Buu [34] = Super Buu [54].
-Pure Evil Buu is stronger than Pure Buu, based on their respective fights with their good counterpart. I theorize that this is because he's taking a bit of South Kaioshin's power with him (SK was only almost entirely good, rather than pure good like DK), while Pure Buu obviously just has his own power. Pure Evil Buu seems to have some Kaioshin influence in him (note his height, clothing, and facial features), while Pure Buu has none. After the Buus re-merge, Buu's body goes through some revisions to make sure his evil side is dominant. This includes purifying the evil Buu of all Kaioshin influence, and shoving it all into the good Buu. The good Buu represents all the Kaioshin power that Buu's body can access. Which, I guess, could be reason for why he's weaker than the South Kaioshin alone. Some weird reaction between DK and Majin skin.

Super Buu [54] - Mr. Buu [24] = Pure Buu [30]
Mr. Buu [24] = South Kaioshin [30] - Dai Kaioshin [6]
-As stated earlier, I think that the evil Buu was purified of Kaioshin influence upon the body being rearranged. This explains, among other things, Super Buu's resemblance to Pure Buu, and his reversion to that form upon Mr. Buu's removal. With Mr. Buu removed, Super Buu goes through much the same process as he did upon losing his other absorptions: reverting a form and losing the power of the absorbption. However, due to the aforementioned rearrangement, Mr. Buu contained ALL of the Kaioshin influence, so Buu was left to revert to his original, mindless form upon his removal.

[Regarder]

Hmm. That's well thought out, actually. Pure Evil Buu being different from Pure Buu is hard to explain otherwise. Toriyama may have just wanted a different final enemy, but in-universe wise, that's a viable explanation.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

I have Chou Gohan about ten to twelve times stronger than Super Saiya-jin 3 Son Goku. It's a pretty good comparison to fit Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks somewhere in the middle between Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku and Chou Gohan.