Anyone else think Vegeta was too easily forgiven by the end?

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:50 pm

I was toying with the idea of a fanfic a while back where a galactic tribunal eventually finds Vegeta living on Earth and attempts to bring him to justice for genocide and murder.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:53 pm

ABED wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:Eh, I don't see any point in letting his past deeds define who he is in the present. There's no changing the past, and, frankly, the person he is today isn't the person he was, so in a way, that "homicidal pirate" has already been killed.
Who we are in the present is defined by our actions, including the past. How can you possibly dismiss that? The person that came back from the dead wasn't a brand new being. True justice would be for Vegeta to go to Hell, literally, after Buu was defeated. It's poetic justice given that he's largely responsible for Buu's resurrection.

No, Goku and Kaioshits are largely responsible... scratch that it was everyone present's fault.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:55 pm

YMMV. On one hand, he did pay for his sins, albeit briefly, and went straight to Hell when he died on both occasions during the show, is humiliated or humbled by every major villain and he is essentially the friend that nobody likes, excluding Bulma, Trunks and Goku. On the other hand, he's essentially living in a life of luxury courtesy of a woman from which was formerly in a relationship with a man Vegeta indirectly murdered. I mean, he did kind of get off the hook in the end but that doesn't mean he didn't go though a lot of tough shit during the course of the series that fucked him up physically or mentally.

Hell, if there was any who really got off the hook in the end, it would be Piccolo. His previous incarnation committed countless crimes, but once his reincarnation joins Goku's side, he's a good guy, with all his previous bad deeds swept under the rug.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:56 pm

God I like Vegeta, and I actually didnt mind him being forgiven before this thread. BUT GOD.

Some of the posts in this thread make me cringe!

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:58 pm

Think about it this way.. Vegeta is strong. He's one of the toughest guys around in the known universe. He's too valuable to not be forgiven. Some of America's biggest allies have horrible human rights records, but for various political / economic reasons, there's a strategic reason to keep them as allies. Same thing with Vegeta.

Sorry, countless billions of lives he personally slaughtered!

LordCrumb · Post by **LordCrumb** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:58 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:YMMV. On one hand, he did pay for his sins, albeit briefly, and went straight to Hell when he died on both occasions during the show, is humiliated or humbled by every major villain and he is essentially the friend that nobody likes, excluding Bulma, Trunks and Goku. On the other hand, he's essentially living in a life of luxury courtesy of a woman from which was formerly in a relationship with a man Vegeta indirectly murdered. I mean, he did kind of get off the hook in the end but that doesn't mean he didn't go though a lot of tough shit during the course of the series that fucked him up physically or mentally.

Hell, if there was any who really got off the hook in the end, it would be Piccolo. His previous incarnation committed countless crimes, but once his reincarnation joins Goku's side, he's a good guy, with all his previous bad deeds swept under the rug.

Yeah Piccolo is the character change I sort of have a problem with. He kind of just tags along without any real explanation as to why he is now fighting along side Goku and the others.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:00 pm

Even Kami refers to Piccolo Daimao as Piccolo's "father." Sure Piccolo technically is the reincarnation / clone of the original Piccolo, but he's still a new person, too.

shinmaru · Post by **shinmaru** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:02 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:God the post above mine. GOD.

Just...

"Bejita" isnt some innocent little flower. Even in his death bed , he never regretted what he did or even make any excuses for it. It would be more understandable if you were talking about the dub which DID try to Romanticize and Rationalize what he did. But no, you explicitly said "Bejita" so there's no doubt you are talking about the Japanese Version.

How can ANYONE be this WRONG?

God!

I'm talking about the character not God. In the end of Z, Bejita is good character. How did he end like this?he wasn't that evil, even if he killed before he changed in the end.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:03 pm

1-Piccolo is a REINCARNATION. He's not the exact same person. He is Piccolo Daimaoh's son. He's his own person.
2-Piccolo actually DID change for the better and stuck that way. No idiotic Majin-Piccolo shit from him!

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:06 pm

I'm not talking about God. I'm saying "GOD THIS IS SO WRONG IT HUUUUURTS".

Seriously, the only reason "Bejita" was forgiven is because people like you like him and think he's cool and redeemable. Nothing more. Seriously, he should still go to hell for all he did.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:06 pm

Storm101 wrote:What do you want to happen to him? He is pretty much a good guy permanently now, punishing him now would serve no purpose. It would be really hard on his family too if he didn't end up in the afterlife with them. I'm fine with him keeping his body too, if only because Goku would love an eternal sparring partner like him and he's always available if anything bad happens.

My problem is the timing of when Vegeta was suddenly declared a good person, which was during the Kid Buu saga. Literally a few episodes prior, he was a resident of hell. Then, he has a change of heart accompanied with an epiphany, and all of a sudden he's good? The guy literally claimed to have wanted to go back to his dark roots, and subsequently killed dozens of people, a few days before this!

Chances are, he killed billions in his lifetime, but when he decides to become a family man, now he gets to go to heaven and keep his body (<-- hypothetically)?

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:08 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:1-Piccolo is a REINCARNATION. He's not the exact same person. He is Piccolo Daimaoh's son. He's his own person.
2-Piccolo actually DID change for the better and stuck that way. No idiotic Majin-Piccolo shit from him!

Yep. And even all that considered, it's stated in the canon that Daimao was only evil because he was corrupted by the evil on Earth. So it wasn't really even his evil, he was just a troubled representation of the cruelty of man-kind in general.

Storm101 · Post by **Storm101** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:23 pm

Vegeta might very well regret what he did by the end of the series. But Toriyama is not that deep of a writer and there wasn't really a point in the story where such a dialogue would be relevant. Hell, a LOT of people in this series were former bad guys and none of them expressed such a thing either. Majin Vegeta happened yeah, but I think it's safe to say he'll never go back to evil deeds again after the Buu saga. I don't believe in punishment that serves no purpose and most certainly not eternal punishment. NOBODY deserves that. I'm glad that the manga continuity simply reincarnates them.

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 pm

FindKenshi wrote:
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:1-Piccolo is a REINCARNATION. He's not the exact same person. He is Piccolo Daimaoh's son. He's his own person.
2-Piccolo actually DID change for the better and stuck that way. No idiotic Majin-Piccolo shit from him!
Yep. And even all that considered, it's stated in the canon that Daimao was only evil because he was corrupted by the evil on Earth. So it wasn't really even his evil, he was just a troubled representation of the cruelty of man-kind in general.

Daimao is the embodiment of Kami's dark side. Daimao wasn't corrupted, Kami was.

I don't believe in punishment that serves no purpose and most certainly not eternal punishment. NOBODY deserves that. I'm glad that the manga continuity simply reincarnates them.

Having your essence wiped clean isn't eternal punishment and damnation. It's a slap on the wrist in comparison to his crimes. The punishment does serve a purpose, it's giving someone what they deserve. Vegeta wasn't reincarnated, he was brought back to life.

DarkPrince_92 · Post by **DarkPrince_92** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:31 pm

Tenshinhan used to break people's legs on a regular, walking in Tao's footsteps. He changed. People let that go almost immediately. Vegeta got more blood on his hands, but hey... he stopped.

ImmaDeker · Post by **ImmaDeker** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:33 pm

Fionordequester wrote: There's no changing the past,

Except in the Cell Saga, I guess.

Or Xenoverse.

Cure Dragon 255 · Post by **Cure Dragon 255** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:36 pm

I really want the Dark Prince's post to be sarcasm. I REALLY do...

ABED · Post by **ABED** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:36 pm

Think about it this way.. Vegeta is strong. He's one of the toughest guys around in the known universe. He's too valuable to not be forgiven. Some of America's biggest allies have horrible human rights records, but for various political / economic reasons, there's a strategic reason to keep them as allies. Same thing with Vegeta.

Not a great example as America has a horrible foreign policy, it's come back to bite us. Vegeta is useful, but that doesn't make him a guy you should pal around with. You don't have to forgive him to find use, but even then I think Vegeta's death wouldn't be that big of an issue. Vegeta is largely responsible for Cell reaching his perfect form and letting Buu out. He's caused more problems than he's helped resolve.

No, Goku and Kaioshits are largely responsible... scratch that it was everyone present's fault.

But notice that the actual evil people are let off the hook. Let's forget Vegeta's part and Babidi's. Let's put it all on Goku and the guy that told everyone about the problem in the first place. It's like Man of Steel, why do people seem to blame the heroes more than the villains?

Storm101 · Post by **Storm101** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:45 pm

ABED wrote:
FindKenshi wrote:
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:1-Piccolo is a REINCARNATION. He's not the exact same person. He is Piccolo Daimaoh's son. He's his own person.
2-Piccolo actually DID change for the better and stuck that way. No idiotic Majin-Piccolo shit from him!
Yep. And even all that considered, it's stated in the canon that Daimao was only evil because he was corrupted by the evil on Earth. So it wasn't really even his evil, he was just a troubled representation of the cruelty of man-kind in general.
Daimao is the embodiment of Kami's dark side. Daimao wasn't corrupted, Kami was.

I don't believe in punishment that serves no purpose and most certainly not eternal punishment. NOBODY deserves that. I'm glad that the manga continuity simply reincarnates them.
Having your essence wiped clean isn't eternal punishment and damnation. It's a slap on the wrist in comparison to his crimes. The punishment does serve a purpose, it's giving someone what they deserve. Vegeta wasn't reincarnated, he was brought back to life.

Giving someone "what they deserve" serves no purpose. We should all know that this revenge crap doesn't benefit anybody and only makes people feel worse. Vegeta is already a good guy anyway.

dbboxkaifan · Post by **dbboxkaifan** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:53 pm

Despite that by the end he became a good guy he still wasn't worthy of being granted access to the paradise, instead he joined his ol' comrades.

Vegeta will always be a badass with that pink t-shirt (I like pink clothing too, tbh).

Kanzenshuu

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