Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:30 am

Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are hybrids and were said to gain their power from that

So is Bra. Bra got her power from a hybrid of Bulma, Goku, and Vegeta. In fact Bra father is Vegetto. What does Vegetto magic have to do with anything? He's a combo of Vegeta and Goku. Two of the greatest warriors. Vegetto power clearly got passed onto Bra. What's the issue? A strong dad produced a strong daughter. Just like how Goku made Goten. A powerful dad. Made Goten whom went SSJ at 7 years old.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:33 am

TheGmGoken wrote:
Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are hybrids and were said to gain their power from that
So is Bra. Bra got her power from a hybrid of Bulma, Goku, and Vegeta. In fact Bra father is Vegetto. What does Vegetto magic have to do with anything? He's a combo of Vegeta and Goku. Two of the greatest warriors. Vegetto power clearly got passed onto Bra. What's the issue? A strong dad produced a strong daughter. Just like how Goku made Goten. A powerful dad. Made Goten whom went SSJ at 7 years old.

Bra's a hybrid, so she should be comparable to the other hybrids. The hype that Gohan, Goten, and Trunks get is because they're half-Saiyan half-human, not that they're Goku and Vegeta's children. Furthermore, Goten and Trunks were prodigies on top of that, and just this Bra just shits all over them.

Vegetto's simply not a natural being, and that's what makes him so powerful. So I call bullshit on the natural, non-magical Bra possessing power rivalling his, especially when it was never suggested that it even works like that.

Skar · Post by **Skar** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:40 am

TheGmGoken wrote:No it's not.. . And trust me. DBM does NOT get the meanest criticism. Maybe on this website but not overall.

Really? DBM was the only sequel I knew of that didn't follow GT. I posted a thread here asking for some recommendations and they were all short side-stories or alternate universes less than 100 pages.

What fan comic gets worse criticism than DBM? I barely see other fan comics criticized aside from the usual "what a cliche villain and/or plot". I don't see anyone go to the New Age or AF thread and bring up the same few complaints every other page.

Saiga wrote:Said saying Vegetto's a strong guy so his daughter would be proportionally strong ignores that he's a magical fusion and Bra isn't.

Maybe he had magically-enhanced sperm

. He's a fusion but technically wouldn't he have the same number of chromosomes as a single Saiyan? After the fusion was complete he now counts as just one really, really powerful Saiyan. Since Bulma was an average woman that brought down Bra's power to where her SSJ forms were in the middle between the normal SSJ tiers and Vegetto's own personal tiers. Her SSJ1 was normal SSJ2-3 tier but still weaker than Ultimate Gohan while her SSJ2 was between Ultimate Gohan and SSJ1 Vegetto. I agree it's a little farfetched she's THAT strong but I'm glad she was at least given a weakness so that she's still weaker than the U18 Saiyans.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:47 am

Goten and Trunks should be compared to Kid Gohan. But they don't. Goten and Trunks shit over Gohan. Notice how strong Goku when conceiving these kids. Vegetto is created by magic yes. But his power is Goku's and Vegeta's. Vegetto besides his creation is just like any other Saiyans. Bra in this universe is a fighter. A fighter that's the daughter of VEGETTO. She's also a hybrid. That's a good combo. Bra story (power wise) is actually VERY similar to Gohan's.

Really? DBM was the only sequel I knew of that didn't follow GT. I posted a thread here asking for some recommendations and they were all short side-stories or alternate universes less than 100 pages.

Link me to thread please. I'll provide some

What fan comic gets worse criticism than DBM? I barely see other fan comics criticized aside from the usual "what a cliche villain and/or plot". I don't see anyone go to the New Age or AF thread and bring up the same few complaints every other page.

Reread my post. I said that only on this website that DBMV get this much hate. I'm one of the haters actually. DBNA is actually praised a lot here. Not to mention DBNA has a better schedule and pacing than DBMV. That's another story. Point being. Only this website has this much hate for DBMV.

Skar · Post by **Skar** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:05 am

TheGmGoken wrote:Link me to thread please. I'll provide some

Here's a link:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=28682

Reread my post. I said that only on this website that DBMV get this much hate. I'm one of the haters actually. DBNA is actually praised a lot here. Not to mention DBNA has a better schedule and pacing than DBMV. That's another story. Point being. Only this website has this much hate for DBMV.

Well I've never met anyone admit to being a "hater" but alright. That's usually a derogatory term so not really something you'd want to be.

Anyway I thought Kanzenshuu was the most popular DB forum on the internet since it's the first result when you search "dragonball forum". That would mean there would most likely be less of a discussion about fan comics on other forums. Which forums were you referring to that criticize other fan comics more than DBM? Could you provide a link to them?

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:10 am

Goten and Trunks should be compared to Kid Gohan. But they don't. Goten and Trunks shit over Gohan. Notice how strong Goku when conceiving these kids. Vegetto is created by magic yes. But his power is Goku's and Vegeta's. Vegetto besides his creation is just like any other Saiyans. Bra in this universe is a fighter. A fighter that's the daughter of VEGETTO. She's also a hybrid. That's a good combo. Bra story (power wise) is actually VERY similar to Gohan's.

Goku when fathering Goten was WAY stronger than Vegeta when fathering Trunks, yet Trunks has a slight edge due to age. That outright debunks the idea that father's strength is proportional to child's strength.

We also saw that future Trunks was really shit when he started out, his Super Saiyan was below Gohan's base. So no, they don't get instant power ups from their fathers.

Goten and Trunks are as strong as they are because they're mastered Super Saiyans, and they've sparred together that way for a while before the series starts. So it's not surprising that they're comparable to other Mastered Super Saiyans.

Bra however is way above the characters she actually matches (other MSSs) and is comparable to completely characters who are completely different (fusions and U. Gohan).

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:52 am

Saiga wrote:Goku when fathering Goten was WAY stronger than Vegeta when fathering Trunks, yet Trunks has a slight edge due to age. That outright debunks the idea that father's strength is proportional to child's strength.

I'm not sure which you're going with here. Are you saying Vegeta wasn't a Super Saiyan when he fathered Trunks, or are you imply that Goku impregnated Chi Chi after the RoSaT when he was haxed above everyone but Gohan? Because I don't think we have anything in the manga that offers clarity on the first, and in order for Goten to be the age he is in the Buu Arc, Goku had to of impregnated Chi Chi way before the robits ever attacked in the first place.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:58 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Saiga wrote:Goku when fathering Goten was WAY stronger than Vegeta when fathering Trunks, yet Trunks has a slight edge due to age. That outright debunks the idea that father's strength is proportional to child's strength.
I'm not sure which you're going with here. Are you saying Vegeta wasn't a Super Saiyan when he fathered Trunks, or are you imply that Goku impregnated Chi Chi after the RoSaT when he was haxed above everyone but Gohan? Because I don't think we have anything in the manga that offers clarity on the first, and in order for Goten to be the age he is in the Buu Arc, Goku had to of impregnated Chi Chi way before the robits ever attacked in the first place.

I'm pretty sure the manga implies it was during the 10 day wait that Goku fathered Goten, even if it's not explicit.

edit: And I thought Goten's age issue was one of whether using the Japanese way of counting age or not.

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:11 am

Literally everyone else works out fine using the normal means of determining one's age (minus Bluma and Mai's whole thing in BOG). It would be strange for him to be the only one that works based on the whole everybody gets a year older at New Years way.

Though for him to work like everyone else, he'd had to of been born before May 7th AGE 767. Guess you can chalk him up to being "left with Chi Chi, as in born, before the battle with Cell/Androids/Cyborgs, and then spending all his time with Gyumao during the robit crisis? xD

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:20 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Literally everyone else works out fine using the normal means of determining one's age (minus Bluma and Mai's whole thing in BOG). It would be strange for him to be the only one that works based on the whole every gets a year older at New Years way.

Do they also work out fine using the Japanese way?

Goten was pretty blatantly retconned in, so there's that.

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:37 am

Saiga wrote:Do they also work out fine using the Japanese way?

Most of them probably do, except maybe Goku with Minus in the picture and perhaps Gohan if you count the RoSaT.

Goten doesn't if you have him conceived during the wait for the Cell Games. That's late May 767, and nine months of pregnancy will get you February of 768...which isn't his birth year.

Saiga wrote:Goten was pretty blatantly retconned in, so there's that.

Yeah, I know. He doesn't even show up in the first Buu Arc chapter either. His introduction is very...underwhelming, even considering the lack of almost everything his character does.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:38 am

But... you just said before that it did work out?

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:07 am

Like I said, Goten doesn't work the traditional way unless he was born before May 7th AGE 767, because he's 7 at the tournament. If you want to do the New Years method, he has to be born some time in AGE 767, which doesn't work out if you have him conceived at the Cell Games. He'd be born in February of 768 and wouldn't turn 1 till the new years rolled over for 769.

Everyone else pretty much works out the traditional way to where you can narrow them down to a working time frame (because we don't know the actual birth dates for very many characters).

Goku didn't used to be an issue at all because we assumed Gohan found him as a baby, so either method would have worked if the old man counted his "birth" as the day he found him (because really, what else can you do with a space kid?). With minus, you can work out his actual birth to being early in AGE 737, with 737/738/739 counting as the three years he was in the pod and then still actually being the correct age at the 21st tournament...but unless he could tell Gohan how old he is (and he doesn't seem capable of speech in Jaco/Minus), then I'm not entirely certain they should have an accurate count on his age...unless Gohan just made a really good guess.

The narrator says he's 16 at the start of the Buu Arc, which is April, and 17 by May for the tournament. Counting the RoSaT's ~11 months, Gohan should be physically 17 by some point in April, but we don't have an exact day count to say when or if he and his family are actually counting that (ignoring the anime). The New years method doesn't really work though... He should be counted as 17 from the beginning of AGE 774, but I think this is the only outlier in this method that I can remember for the manga continuity, same as Goten doesn't work in the normal one.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:14 am

Saiga wrote:
Bra's a hybrid, so she should be comparable to the other hybrids. The hype that Gohan, Goten, and Trunks get is because they're half-Saiyan half-human, not that they're Goku and Vegeta's children. Furthermore, Goten and Trunks were prodigies on top of that, and just this Bra just shits all over them.

Vegetto's simply not a natural being, and that's what makes him so powerful. So I call bullshit on the natural, non-magical Bra possessing power rivalling his, especially when it was never suggested that it even works like that.

Your claim is completely arbitrary.

There's already enough material in the original manga to argue that stronger fathers will produce stronger offspring (since kid Goten and kid Trunks had no training at all and they got SSJ naturally and were strong enough to baffle Vegeta and make adult Gohan think that they would soon surpass him), let alone when a saiyan fusion is the father which is completely uncharted territory given the magical nature of the father.

Any fan manga that suggest a child of such a fusion would naturally be stronger than the other hybrids is making a perfectly reasonable scenario.

But since your completely arbitrary opinion doesn't like it very much, its "bullshit". Right....

Oh, and the difference in strength between the Goku who fathered Gohan compared to the Goku who fathered Goten, makes the difference between Goku and Vegeta not very significant at all. But there's again a huge difference between the Vegetto who fathered Bra and Goku when he fathered Goten.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:09 pm

It took us almost 7 years to reach 1000 pages on this thread and yet DBM is still not over. DBM should have ended years ago. Stupid filler and pointless specials really slow down DBM in my opinion.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:28 pm

The Specials are like Clones in Smash Bros. They're either there, or they're not. The only thing that would change by removing them is their removal. We wouldn't have a faster/more frequently updated main story for DBM if the Specials didn't exist, just like we wouldn't have any more original characters on a roster if the clones were removed.

We have the specials so that we're not sitting here with absolutely no content for however long of a break there tends to be between main chapters. Sure, you could argue that it would be better with no content than with bad content, but the fact remains that having no specials wouldn't speed the main comic up.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:20 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:It took us almost 7 years to reach 1000 pages on this thread and yet DBM is still not over. DBM should have ended years ago. Stupid filler and pointless specials really slow down DBM in my opinion.

As it had been stated hundreds of times before, fillers/specials exist because the artists only draw the pages in their free time and would never be able to to keep up with the schedule without fillers/specials. So, without fillers/specials, the comic would just have hiatus instead. It wouldn't go any faster.

Skar · Post by **Skar** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:28 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:It took us almost 7 years to reach 1000 pages on this thread and yet DBM is still not over. DBM should have ended years ago. Stupid filler and pointless specials really slow down DBM in my opinion.

Unfortunately complaining won't really solve anything

. If you really want the story to finish quicker then the only solution would be to find artists as skilled as Asura or Gogeta Jr and ask them to help draw DBM. The problem is finding artists who can consistently draw that well and meet the schedule without getting paid for it which is why it took so long to find a permanent replacement for Gogeta Jr.

Some other fan comics have been out longer than DBM but still far from over. Toyble's AF started in 2007 and still has less than 200 pages. I think New Age began in 2007 and only in the second saga. I've seen others that started around that time and never made it past 100 pages. I'm sure a lot of these artists would've liked to finish their stories by now but they have many other obligations so they can't work on their fan comics full time.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:31 pm

I think New Age began in 2007 and only in the second saga.

More like 2002

Malik_DBNA · Post by **Malik_DBNA** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:33 pm

Skar wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:It took us almost 7 years to reach 1000 pages on this thread and yet DBM is still not over. DBM should have ended years ago. Stupid filler and pointless specials really slow down DBM in my opinion.
Unfortunately complaining won't really solve anything . If you really want the story to finish quicker then the only solution would be to find artists as skilled as Asura or Gogeta Jr and ask them to help draw DBM. The problem is finding artists who can consistently draw that well and meet the schedule without getting paid for it which is why it took so long to find a permanent replacement for Gogeta Jr.

Some other fan comics have been out longer than DBM but still far from over. Toyble's AF started in 2007 and still has less than 200 pages. I think New Age began in 2007 and only in the second saga. I've seen others that started around that time and never made it past 100 pages. I'm sure a lot of these artists would've liked to finish their stories by now but they have many other obligations so they can't work on their fan comics full time.

Actually, I started the current incarnation of New Age in '05 (March 17, 2015 is the 10 year anniversary). Even though it is the second Saga, I'm still more than 400 pages in (blame my revamping). I have spoken to Salagir before about doing DBM. He and I both came to the conclusion that it was unfair to ask me to stop doing my story to focus on his, which is why I have only done mini-comics for them.

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