Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[rereboy]

Hey if they want to churn out turds just cause people can't be fucking patient and wait for something good, fine. There call. It's like being told to be grateful that Toriyama did Dragon Ball Minus or to just ignore it as it's so small. Not how it works. Specials as well as minus are part of the stories. They are supposed to explain back stories, so ignoring them leaves things ambiguous. If I ignored say the Hildegarn special I would have no clue as to why Tapion and Hildegarn are even fighting together. You seem like one of those people who's like "blah blah blah be grateful you get anything, blah blah blah everything is perfect"

I do not see the merit of adding something to a storyline if it isn't good? It's like if Toei started churning out Tv specials for Dragon Ball every 4 or 6 months, and they all turned out mediocre to crap. Would you really want that? Would you want toei to produce a special for say the Daimao past if the result would be terrible? Specials should feel like a great addition to a story. Specials most of the time here are padding nonsense. Of course I'm going to fault Salagir or whoever for them as they are not well thought out. If he cares to do something over something with quality it's his call. Doesn't stop me from enjoying in either a good, or it's so shit it's funny way. I win either way.

It's the only story which I believe could be a special placed during the 10 year gap. I believe it'd fit just like the YSGAFR special. It'd also give Piccolo, Vegeta, and other people screen time in a story that's not just about bad guy want planet go boom or something evil must be combatant.

DBM's problem is it's lack of focus. Can you imagine any of the Tenkaichi Budokai's in Dragon Ball being written like it? The tournaments always focused on our heroes and the villains if there were one in the tourney. In DBM they have the ambitious idea to spread the focus all over the place to the point where the story has to accommodate way too many people. The specials I believe should cover the extra people so the main story can focus on our heroes in the tournament while giving some time to some of the other important players in the story. As of now it works kind of like a random episode day of say The Simpsons. If you don't like a Lisa Episode, too fucking bad that's what this whole fight, round, or special is while the people you know will more than likely have nothing interesting to say or do. The core of Dragon Ball has always been about Goku and Friends, this series goes far beyond it which is good and bad. Good in the sense it shows some villains perspective and other characters, bad as in we have no real core characters to follow. I'm not invested in anyone of our heroes as nothing they're doing is important and they hardly seem important to the story at all.

The problem is that you continue to look at the specials as if they are on the same level at all as the main story. They are not. DBM wasn't even supposed to have specials. The first chapters of DBM were all continuous, but then the work started to become too much for Gogeta Jr and they had to have a couple of breaks (yes, DBM had breaks in the early chapters).

And then, Salagir thought of having something come out during those breaks. Something simple, un-developed, that could be shown in just a few pages, no more than a length of a normal chapter, to fill those hiatus. And so, Salagir gave the opportunity to some artists to draw a simple special chapter showing just a curiosity or two about some of the universes to fill up the time between the main story. That's all.

Specials in DBM are akin to commercial breaks that have DBM related stuff in them. And yet you seem hell-bound to criticize all of DBM just because of them. That just seems rather silly to me and I don't understand your inability to simply ignore them given this.

And nothing in any special chapter happens that is essential for DBM. They are just curiosities. Not knowing what exactly happened in Tapion's universe for him to be working with his demon is not essential for DBM at all.

What you mention regarding lack of focus is simply one of the problems of doing a fan manga of this scale that I mentioned in my last post. The fan manga needed some more character interactions and some more moments with the core group of universe #18 which would help greatly in what you refer to as focus. However, given the scale of the fan manga and how long it takes to draw pages, that simply doesn't become feasible. They have to prioritize what they draw and sadly one of the consequences is less characters interactions than we would like.

(Oh, and I didn't have to be rude in writing this post or had to use foul language).

[Saimaroimaru]

It took us almost 7 years to reach 1000 pages on this thread and yet DBM is still not over. DBM should have ended years ago. Stupid filler and pointless specials really slow down DBM in my opinion.

Personally waiting on the Zen Buu flash back. Aside from fanficion.net, it is hard to find stories where Super Buu won or at least went on a crazier/alternate absorption path. Doujin wise, this will be the first one I found so far.

[Skar]

Excluding the logic of some specials, continuity choice, and some other problems as I'd like to stick to my big kicker. The story is the biggest problem for me. I am not the least bit invested. I don't give a fuck about any of the characters as they are mostly doing nothing important or there is no conflicts. DBM being just a fan service manga to have characters fight other characters is when DBM does it's basic job right, but as a story it fails. It has interesting ideas and suggestions that something is going on behind the scenes, however it doesn't just give us something of a conflict beforehand to enjoy. All the Dragon Ball TB's had me care about the conflicts as well as the dilemma's. In DBM they aren't nearly as prominent, and when they are it's usually from someone we barely know.

I'm not sure what to say since it seems you don't like the premise of DBM in general. From the beginning we knew it would be a long story due to the number of universes and contestants. As the story progresses U18 will probably become the main focus. Most likely Goku, Vegeta, and Uub will win their fights so 3 out of the 8 contestants in round 4 will be from U18.

Honestly I feel there's more conflict or more at stake in DBM than in the original manga. In DBM there's the possibility that Zen Buu, XXI, or some other villain will steal a vargas ship and terrorize the multiverse. If that happens some contestants might be killed and never wished back or make it back home. In DBZ and most sequels they have two sets of Dragonballs available to fix every problem. All the Z fighters could get killed and the Earth destroyed every saga and all Goku would have to do is IT to New Namek or ask King Kai if he could talk to the Nameks there.

I pointed this out but the specials do explain things that are more than likely to come up in the main story. I skip them in the sense I won't follow page by page, but not in the sense to not see if there's something I need to know for later (Like Hildegarn/Tapion) or Gast. Hey if Salagir buts in bold "WILL NOT BE MENTIONED IN MAIN COMIC" I'll gladly skip over it even if it falls into the same category as something like Minus and being a waste of talent.

Well to be honest complaining on the forum takes more time than just skipping those specials and reading them when they're over . 20-25 pages would only take a few minutes to read when the special ends. I'm not sure what to suggest other than wait it out. I'm sure Salagir would love to be able to release a new page every day but it isn't possible unless he can find enough artists.

Well... it'll help if you named some. It seems like you're just implying that I love all GT sequels. Just give a few examples.

Well what is your criteria for a good story? The story you suggested, Dragonball SF, was a rehash of early Dragonball but with Pan and Goten's son instead of Bulma and kid Goku. It's no secret that most fan comics recycle old saga and movie ideas throughout their entire story. Do you judge a story by originality or is the problem with DBM is that it doesn't follow the usual fan comic cliches?

Also could you give some suggestions on how to make the story good? I'll even email DBM team and give them these suggestions if you want. I hear people constantly complain but rarely tell you how they would like to improve the story.

[TheGmGoken]

Well what is your criteria for a good story? The story you suggested, Dragonball SF, was a rehash of early Dragonball but with Pan and Goten's son instead of Bulma and kid Goku. It's no secret that most fan comics recycle old saga and movie ideas throughout their entire story. Do you judge a story by originality or is the problem with DBM is that it doesn't follow the usual fan comic cliches?

So..what you're saying is that I like GT sequels and common fanfiction cliche. Both of which I've dismissed. In which I said my favorites aren't the mangas but the YouTube ones. You can't possibly say I don't like DBM because it doesn't follow. I've actually PRAISED it for it. Because DBZ rehashed DBZ while DBZ was going on. It's refreshing to see new concepts (rather boring but still new). If you want some mangas I'll rate it like this. I'll use popular ones.

New Age - 7/10. 8/10 when good.
DBAF - 0/10
DBM - 4-5/10
DBEX - 5/10
Who wants to be a Hero - 5.5/10.

My rating system is how much I enjoyed the read and how interesting the story is.

I've already emailed Salgair. So there's no need for you to. I've already told you how to make it better. In which I said better characters and if you mean plot wise. I'll dig up my rant on it later.

[Malik_DBNA]

I think that particular milestone says a lot. And yes, I have thought about talking to Salagir about doing one of the specials. My current update regimen has put me over 20 pages ahead of the revamps I posted, so doing a short would be in the realm of possibility

Have you thought about which universe(s) you would be interested in drawing?

I was honestly interested in doing the one of Zen Boo. I like his design, and he's personally my favorite character out of the entire comic. I would love the chance to bring my art to his backstory

New Age - 7/10. 8/10 when good.
DBAF - 0/10
DBM - 4-5/10
DBEX - 5/10
Who wants to be a Hero - 5.5/10.

Thanks for the 7.5/10

[Skar]

So..what you're saying is that I like GT sequels and common fanfiction cliche. Both of which I've dismissed.

Well that's what I picked up from the other thread when you told me SF had more interesting characters than DBM. I got the impression that you liked stories that remind you of scenes from the manga. Sorry I was wrong then.

I've already emailed Salgair. So there's no need for you to. I've already told you how to make it better. In which I said better characters and if you mean plot wise. I'll dig up my rant on it later.

You emailed Salagir and only said "You should improve DBM by making the characters better"? Every artist wants the best characters they can come up with so you have to give actual suggestions. You said you rate stories based on how interesting you found them so give suggestions on how to make DBM more interesting.

[TheGmGoken]

You emailed Salagir and only said "You should improve DBM by making the characters better"? Every artist wants the best characters t

No . I emailed him pros and con's and what he should do.

[dbzfan7]

Hey if they want to churn out turds just cause people can't be fucking patient and wait for something good, fine. There call. It's like being told to be grateful that Toriyama did Dragon Ball Minus or to just ignore it as it's so small. Not how it works. Specials as well as minus are part of the stories. They are supposed to explain back stories, so ignoring them leaves things ambiguous. If I ignored say the Hildegarn special I would have no clue as to why Tapion and Hildegarn are even fighting together. You seem like one of those people who's like "blah blah blah be grateful you get anything, blah blah blah everything is perfect"

I do not see the merit of adding something to a storyline if it isn't good? It's like if Toei started churning out Tv specials for Dragon Ball every 4 or 6 months, and they all turned out mediocre to crap. Would you really want that? Would you want toei to produce a special for say the Daimao past if the result would be terrible? Specials should feel like a great addition to a story. Specials most of the time here are padding nonsense. Of course I'm going to fault Salagir or whoever for them as they are not well thought out. If he cares to do something over something with quality it's his call. Doesn't stop me from enjoying in either a good, or it's so shit it's funny way. I win either way.

It's the only story which I believe could be a special placed during the 10 year gap. I believe it'd fit just like the YSGAFR special. It'd also give Piccolo, Vegeta, and other people screen time in a story that's not just about bad guy want planet go boom or something evil must be combatant.

DBM's problem is it's lack of focus. Can you imagine any of the Tenkaichi Budokai's in Dragon Ball being written like it? The tournaments always focused on our heroes and the villains if there were one in the tourney. In DBM they have the ambitious idea to spread the focus all over the place to the point where the story has to accommodate way too many people. The specials I believe should cover the extra people so the main story can focus on our heroes in the tournament while giving some time to some of the other important players in the story. As of now it works kind of like a random episode day of say The Simpsons. If you don't like a Lisa Episode, too fucking bad that's what this whole fight, round, or special is while the people you know will more than likely have nothing interesting to say or do. The core of Dragon Ball has always been about Goku and Friends, this series goes far beyond it which is good and bad. Good in the sense it shows some villains perspective and other characters, bad as in we have no real core characters to follow. I'm not invested in anyone of our heroes as nothing they're doing is important and they hardly seem important to the story at all.

The problem is that you continue to look at the specials as if they are on the same level at all as the main story. They are not. DBM wasn't even supposed to have specials. The first chapters of DBM were all continuous, but then the work started to become too much for Gogeta Jr and they had to have a couple of breaks (yes, DBM had breaks in the early chapters).

And then, Salagir thought of having something come out during those breaks. Something simple, un-developed, that could be shown in just a few pages, no more than a length of a normal chapter, to fill those hiatus. And so, Salagir gave the opportunity to some artists to draw a simple special chapter showing just a curiosity or two about some of the universes to fill up the time between the main story. That's all.

Specials in DBM are akin to commercial breaks that have DBM related stuff in them. And yet you seem hell-bound to criticize all of DBM just because of them. That just seems rather silly to me and I don't understand your inability to simply ignore them given this.

And nothing in any special chapter happens that is essential for DBM. They are just curiosities. Not knowing what exactly happened in Tapion's universe for him to be working with his demon is not essential for DBM at all.

What you mention regarding lack of focus is simply one of the problems of doing a fan manga of this scale that I mentioned in my last post. The fan manga needed some more character interactions and some more moments with the core group of universe #18 which would help greatly in what you refer to as focus. However, given the scale of the fan manga and how long it takes to draw pages, that simply doesn't become feasible. They have to prioritize what they draw and sadly one of the consequences is less characters interactions than we would like.

(Oh, and I didn't have to be rude in writing this post or had to use foul language).

Take the time off then. You don't have to put out sub par content at all. They aren't getting paid. I'd rather consistency with the main story than murky specials that just bog down everything else. They don't owe shit to anyone. Good things come with time. So take that time to fine tune and think things over. Again would you want toei to start throwing out TV specials every once and a while if they're mediocre? Do you want Toriyama to do the same in manga form if they'll turn out like Dragon Ball Minus? I don't I'd rather nothing at all then something that messes around with what was already great.

Which it seems he and they wrote together. Again it hardly matters as it counts towards the main storyline. It's not like there's big bold letters saying "This is Non Canon to our story". That's the difference between the specials of DBM and the early Dragon Ball movies and how they correlate to the main storyline.

Oh gee I'm sorry. I'm not allowed to criticize shovelware, my bad. Guess no one else should too cause it's pretty much all shovelware. Guess when it's DBM we're not allowed to point out when it's putrid shit. I criticize the main story too, the specials just so happen to be poor add on's that are made for the sake of stalling rather than being good. That is not how content should be thought up. Specials should be...you know...Special. But they should be labelled commercial or shovelware chapters instead if they can't even be special.

Sure it is as being able to control Hildegarn in our universe was impossible, yet this Tapion could somehow. He wasn't any different so we needed to know how he could do it, otherwise it's another *lolkingcoldbrolylolz*. So we got an explanation which justifies things.

Yes and that's the biggest problem to the comic. Too many characters can be considered a bad thing in any form of fiction. Without proper development or ongoing story arcs you're left with a bunch of fighters who are just in a tournament. The only thing holding it together is the fact we do already know these people. If we didn't then this story would be a complete failure. I believe they can introduce more character developments or some of the things going on behind the scenes. More importantly an ongoing conflict. When there is one it usually is dealt with quickly or takes a back seat to more fan service. Fan service is what DBM does best, but quality is far from it's strong suit.

Wanna know the funniest thing? The specials DO have a focus even if they tend to be bad. The specials DO have an actual story going on. Unlike the main tournament that hints to a story and shows ideas in flashbacks, then rips them away so then we're left with an a boring tournament only good for fanservice. If that's good enough for you sure, but it ain't quality or special like some people think it is. More power to people I guess if they really enjoy it. In my book it's hype is just as bad as Absalon and neither really hit the mark. Though I would give DBM some more credit than absalon.

(Congrats want a medal or cookie?)

I'm not sure what to say since it seems you don't like the premise of DBM in general. From the beginning we knew it would be a long story due to the number of universes and contestants. As the story progresses U18 will probably become the main focus. Most likely Goku, Vegeta, and Uub will win their fights so 3 out of the 8 contestants in round 4 will be from U18.

I do like the tournament premise and fan service idea, it's just so muddled and un focused that there is no reason to give a fuck about anyone. If we didn't know about any of the prior characters, this story would fall flat on it's face with being unable to have any driving narrative. 21st had Roshi trying to teach a moral lesson and help his students. 22nd had Crane vs Turtle as well as Tenshinhan's moral dilemma. 23rd had the return of Piccolo Daimao. 25th and 28th weren't even relevant or important, hence why they weren't the focus of their stories. DBM....uh....people fight....some stuff might happen...er...instead of bringing out said conflict we'll hint to it and just keep no ongoing story line. It's like those flashbacks were teases to an actual story, and then they're taken away so we have to be stuck with no conflicts at all. Future conflicts don't count til they actually start affecting our characters.

Honestly I feel there's more conflict or more at stake in DBM than in the original manga. In DBM there's the possibility that Zen Buu, XXI, or some other villain will steal a vargas ship and terrorize the multiverse. If that happens some contestants might be killed and never wished back or make it back home. In DBZ and most sequels they have two sets of Dragonballs available to fix every problem. All the Z fighters could get killed and the Earth destroyed every saga and all Goku would have to do is IT to New Namek or ask King Kai if he could talk to the Nameks there.

I don't see that at all. Zen Boo hasn't really shown that thought process as of yet and XXI has no known backstory or interest that has been revealed. Besides any villain that even tries anything is a piss ant to Vegetto so they'd be put down if they tried anything. Also the contestants were just wished back so yeah that threat is gone.

That's a problem with DB in general since the Namek balls limit were stricken away. Even so at least the focus is on our characters in the storylines. Ongoing focus and not "Oh here's a story, look here right here...oh flash back over, you aren't getting a story now...here's a special for you which is the only story you get with a focus.

Well to be honest complaining on the forum takes more time than just skipping those specials and reading them when they're over . 20-25 pages would only take a few minutes to read when the special ends. I'm not sure what to suggest other than wait it out. I'm sure Salagir would love to be able to release a new page every day but it isn't possible unless he can find enough artists.

The irony is the specials and main story (If you can call it one) both have opposite problems. The specials have one thing I want, a damn story with focus. The specials no matter good or bad always seem to have it. The tournament is an unfocused mess in comparison, but keeps interest due to fanservice and hint towards a story. Hint however is what it's always been. if the 2025 or whatever amount of pages is true to be the total tally, then we have went through half the damn story without a central conflict. That is ridiculous. Did Toriyama take half an arc just to get to the main conflict of any of his stories? No he didn't. He got them out and his stories evolved over time. His conflicts would change and grow over time, but we'd know what the central conflict is as it plays out around us, or slowly evolves into it. Toriyama never went "Oh here's a conflict that will come...ya see it...well now that's all ya get Kthxbye."

[rereboy]

Like I said, your attitude towards it just seems rather silly to me. I really don't have much more to say on the matter. I just really disagree with your view point. Like I say before, it seems to me that your arguments are more emotional than rational and I simply don't follow them or see the point in them. Your dislike for it seems more visceral in nature than logical.

(And what I was hoping for was a dialog where you didn't come across as rude or used foul language. The use of foul language decreased but you continued to come across as just rude. That just demotivates anyone from a conversation).

[TheGmGoken]

(What's wrong with......cuss...words....)

Did everyone forget there's a new page?

[rereboy]

(What's wrong with......cuss...words....)

Not exactly the most pleasant tone to talk to someone, especially on a debate.

Did everyone forget there's a new page?

Unfortunately, that pretty much illustrates the dominant trend of the topic.

[dbzfan7]

Like I said, your attitude towards it just seems rather silly to me. I really don't have much more to say on the matter. I just really disagree with your view point. Like I say before, it seems to me that your arguments are more emotional than rational and I simply don't follow them or see the point in them. Your dislike for it seems more visceral in nature than logical.

(And what I was hoping for was a dialog where you didn't come across as rude or used foul language. The use of foul language decreased but you continued to come across as just rude. That just demotivates anyone from a conversation).

Well it is emotional in the sense it's a comic that has so much potential, but they shit it away. In the sense I used to be hooked early on, and it is really sad to see something I used to be so into I harshly criticize now. If anything I find all this passive talk on the comic ridiculous while I see people like you still criticizing other comics just fine. I think it's very rational considering it's a free web comic and they can do whatever the hell they want. I don't recall them getting paid, so they can't just try to shape things up. They could go on complete hiatus if they want to. Their schedule and choices are their's alone.

The bottom line for me is if you want an actual story, you have to tune into the specials because in the defense of the specials, they at least have a focus and story. The story of the main tournament doesn't have a driving narrative. Any time something happens it is soon put behind us like it hardly mattered. We coulda had things like Broly's rampage, Boo in space, Boo's freakout all written out of the story, and we'd lose nothing. Every foreshadow leaves us with nothing as it only affects one character, and since Bardock isn't the focus, it hardly matters in the end. There is no outgoing focus on the story like every Dragon Ball tournament ever so there is no reason to really give a shit about anyone.

What people faulty might assume is that I torture myself for no reason. I don't. I enjoy what I see whether it's good or a piece of shit. It's like being told you are not allowed to laugh at and criticize a bad game, even if you enjoy it. I enjoy DBM to a degree, but fuck no for quality. I enjoy it to see how they work with their premise and how laughably it can get fucked. That's my enjoyment. The story or lack there of, the opposite problem with specials, I get a kick no matter what. It's like I'm being told "UGH if you don't enjoy it then go away bleh". I do enjoy this fan comic for completely different reasons I suppose than others. When it's good I win, when it's bad I win. I get enjoyment no matter what.

[rereboy]

I criticize this comic when I feel its relevant. However, you won't find me repeating my criticisms over and over again like many like to do. I've stated my criticisms of DBM long, long ago and more than once so I see no point in constantly repeating them. If I see something new to criticize in the new pages and find it relevant, I will (I usually don't bother with specials because I just ignore them).

You also won't see me constantly criticizing other comics for the same reason. At most you will see me criticizing a point once or twice and that's it.

And obviously I will state my opinion when I disagree with others and their criticisms.

As for your opinion on DBM, I've already talked about it.

[dbzfan7]

I criticize this comic when I feel its relevant. However, you won't find me repeating my criticisms over and over again like many like to do. I've stated my criticisms of DBM long, long ago and more than once so I see no point in constantly repeating them. If I see something new to criticize in the new pages and find it relevant, I will (I usually don't bother with specials because I just ignore them).

You also won't see me constantly criticizing other comics for the same reason. At most you will see me criticizing a point once or twice and that's it.

And obviously I will state my opinion when I disagree with others and their criticisms.

As for your opinion on DBM, I've already talked about it.

I haven't quite seen your opinions on the comic I suppose. Still don't quite get how throwing something out for the sake of quantity is better than actual quality but whatever. I'd never support toei if they took the DBM approach and threw in TV specials that were sub par while the wait for their upcoming movie was some time away. In my personal opinion it's not worth having something be shoveled out if it's gonna disappoint. The shitty consumer asks for something mediocre and sooner over allowing time to be dedicated to something great. I guess I'll never get all this stupid leeway, when the final result is what matters when it comes to any critique, not the behind the scene schedules and choices. None of that matters.

[rereboy]

I haven't quite seen your opinions on the comic I suppose. Still don't quite get how throwing something out for the sake of quantity is better than actual quality but whatever. I'd never support toei if they took the DBM approach and threw in TV specials that were sub par while the wait for their upcoming movie was some time away.

If the specials were better than they are, obviously it would be better for DBM overall. However, given what's behind the specials (that I've explained), getting hung up on them is, imo, rather silly, and expecting them to be better when they are supposed to only last a chapter and just present the audience with an un-developed curiosity or two about a certain universe is also kind of silly in my opinion.

I would kind of understand that reaction if this was the first or the second special and you were lead to believe that they would be more than they are, but from the very first special is pretty clear what they are, so continuing to be hung up on it doesn't make much sense to me, especially when they are so easily ignored.

I have several criticisms for DBM but, at least for the main one I can find a justification for it based on the fact that its a fan manga with specific constraints.

The main criticism is the lack of development of character interactions, thoughts and focus on universe #18. In DBM there's a certain feeling of lack of depth or emotion regarding the characters, like they are more hollow than in the original manga. However, I think this is mainly because they have to prioritize what they show given that they can only make so many pages and takes a long time to release a chapter. It gets kind of hard with this scale of a event in a fanmanga.

Regarding the plot I honestly don't have many criticisms to make besides some details. The premise is pretty good for a fan comic and the planning of the tournament (who advances and who is gonna fight with who and who loses) is also pretty good for a fan comic, as well as the composition of each universe participating. The plot also allows for a lot of serious and less serious opportunities for all the characters in it and its pretty interesting overall. And it mixes the relaxed feeling of a mega fan wish-fulfillment tournament with the impending threat of a bigger danger that its still under wraps (XXI), as well as other potential dangers (Zen Buu, Cell, Vegetto, Ginyu). Also, the bigger threat is a logical one (the guy that imprisoned Dai Kaioshin 75 millions years ago and that was already very bad news then) instead of one that comes from nowhere, which is very positive.

Something that deserves some criticism is the lack of thought behind each universe's backstory. I think its kind of obvious that the DBM team didn't actually plan extensively the backstory of each universe. Some were easy enough, like Vegetto never defusing, but in others I'm pretty sure they just went "hey, wouldn't be cool if one universe had these fighters" and they never really planned extensively their backstories. This is not very important for the tournament itself or the fan manga, but it would have been nice to actually get the feeling that they all were well-planned. Of course, I can be wrong and maybe they are well planned, but I don't think so.

Other stuff is just some details, like Cold being stronger than Freeza without a better explanation for it. I actually offered better explanations for it on this topic. Or Broly's "invincible" state and the reason for why he is so strong. I believe that classification was just needless and I believe that Broly's power and resistance could have been better explained without any need for a constantly rising power and a "invincible" classification. And I also offered better explanations, imo, for it, on this topic. And some other stuff, but nothing really major.

Overall, I do have criticisms, but its obvious to me that DBM is basically the best DB fan manga. Some, like who wants to be a superhero, can be argued to be better, but its an unfair comparison because they don't even try to do something of this scale or are even remotely as long as DBM or try to have an ending or conclusion. They end up being short, incomplete and sweet because they focus solely on a few good ideas and aren't developed enough to even go beyond those few initial ideas, they never actually go beyond the potential state. Like yourself stated, DBM hooked you at the beginning. What if DBM had been interrupted in the early chapters and never continued? You probably you rank it higher but would it truly be better just because it never got to develop beyond the initial point and got stuck at the potential state? I don't think it would, I think that's just an illusion because we only get to see the potential of it.

[Skar]

No . I emailed him pros and con's and what he should do.

Oh well why didn't you say so? When you said you were a "hater" I assumed you just enjoyed complaining. If you really did contact Salagir then what's the point of repeating those complains over and over again here?

I do like the tournament premise and fan service idea, it's just so muddled and un focused that there is no reason to give a fuck about anyone. If we didn't know about any of the prior characters, this story would fall flat on it's face with being unable to have any driving narrative. 21st had Roshi trying to teach a moral lesson and help his students. 22nd had Crane vs Turtle as well as Tenshinhan's moral dilemma. 23rd had the return of Piccolo Daimao. 25th and 28th weren't even relevant or important, hence why they weren't the focus of their stories. DBM....uh....people fight....some stuff might happen...er...instead of bringing out said conflict we'll hint to it and just keep no ongoing story line. It's like those flashbacks were teases to an actual story, and then they're taken away so we have to be stuck with no conflicts at all. Future conflicts don't count til they actually start affecting our characters.

I understand what you're saying but what could be done to give it more story or conflict? The premise was just a huge tournament among alternate universes. Occasionally there was some short-lived dilemmas like Broly's rampage or Buu's outburst but after they were taken care of the tournament continued as scheduled. If there was a bigger conflict than these early on then that could derail the tournament which would mean most of these planned fights wouldn't happen. One idea I heard was that the contestants were kidnapped from their universes and forced to compete in this tournament to entertain some super evil multiverse Kaioshin or Makaioshin. That would be a cool idea but I think most of the heroes would just band together to defeat this enemy so they could return home. In DBM the only way the heroes would agree to compete is if they felt safe and continued feeling safe even after all the temporary interruptions. The authors would have to choose between seeing the tournament to the end or introducing the main conflict earlier and cancelling the tournament.

I don't see that at all. Zen Boo hasn't really shown that thought process as of yet and XXI has no known backstory or interest that has been revealed. Besides any villain that even tries anything is a piss ant to Vegetto so they'd be put down if they tried anything. Also the contestants were just wished back so yeah that threat is gone.

I meant if Zen Buu gets bored with the tournament he might decide to steal a Vargas ship to look for people worth absorbing. I don't know anything about XXI or what's going to happen with Vegetto but I think whatever happens will leave U18 as the main heroes.

Did Toriyama take half an arc just to get to the main conflict of any of his stories? No he didn't. He got them out and his stories evolved over time. His conflicts would change and grow over time, but we'd know what the central conflict is as it plays out around us, or slowly evolves into it. Toriyama never went "Oh here's a conflict that will come...ya see it...well now that's all ya get Kthxbye."

I think DBM would work differently since it's not really an independent story. The foundation for DBM was the manga and the other universes. If there's a beginning, middle, and the end of DBM then the tournament would technically be the middle. Salagir could have had written the long history of each alternate universe and then decide to have a big tournament between all the AUs he wrote. Instead he decided to start the story at the beginning of the tournament and slowly tell the backstory of the universes as filler. That's why I don't really consider DBM a sequel. It's a sequel in the sense that it takes place after the manga ended but it's more of a side-story or crossover after the storylines of each of the individual universes have ended. That's why the development of the story won't feel like it did in the manga or in the usual sequel with multiple shorter sagas.

[Regarder]

(What's wrong with......cuss...words....)

Did everyone forget there's a new page?

This is interesting.

Imagine if Salagir trolled us and the whole story from this point on was just Buu going around touching people while they sleep.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Imagine if Salagir trolled us and the whole story from this point on was just Buu going around touching people while they sleep.

...Nah, never mind. Too easy.

Definitely wondering what it is he's suggesting to all of these people though, especially since they seem to be individualized. Kind of funny that he's not going to screw with Gast any further too. I get the feeling something is going to happen between him and XII too.

[rereboy]

Its kind of dangerous to approach Gast, even for Buu. He might notice Buu. And he doesn't need help anyway.

As a translator for DBM, I can tell you guys that I've already seen the next few pages and I found them very interesting and intriguing.

[Gyt Kaliba]

My bad, I wasn't clear enough - that's exactly what I meant, funny as in 'amusing' not 'curious'. It amuses me that despite apparently pulling one over on Gast and everyone else at the tournament, Boo still finds it prudent not to go mess with Gast any further at the moment.

That's interesting though. Can't wait to see what's in store.