Who's stronger? Cyborg Tao or Chi-Chi (23rd Budokai)?

[DBZAOTA482]

For a long time, I believed Cyborg Tao was stronger by a good margin for mainly for WSJ's BP for Cyborg Tao being 210 and Chi-Chi's being 130. However, re-reading the 23rd Budokai I'm seriously started to doubt it.

I generally believed Chi-Chi was stronger than Human Tao since she capable of things Tao in his human form doesn't seem to be capable of (like clashing in the air) but weaker than Cybernetic upgrade mainly for aforementioned but also due to reputation.

The one thing that has I starting to think different is how easily Tenshinhan handled Tao compared to how Goku handled Chi-Chi. Ten doesn't seem to have any issues whatsoever avoiding Tao's attacks (outside his weapons)... he doesn't even move from one spot even though Tao's trying his absolute hardest to hit him and Tao only seemed to have lasted cuz Ten didn't wanna humiliate him, but judging from how Goku seems to have a noticeable amount of trouble avoiding Chi-Chi's attacks while trying to figure her out (even having to jump over 600ft in the air... which she easily matches) seems to imply he would actually have to put up an effort to avoid them if he went in with the intent of fighting like Ten.

I know Goku was at a very suppressed level 'till his fight with Ten but the dialogue him and Ten share before and during they fight suggests Ten was largely holding back against Tao as well (even with speed).

There's also the nature of their defeats. Both were taken out fairly easily but still sparked quite a reaction from the others. Tao was defeated with one blow to the stomach while Chi-Chi was defeated by ring-out with a Kiai. Kuririn and Yamcha were afraid of fighting Ten after his handy work with Tao while Chi-Chi's defeat with Kiai shocked Kuririn, Yamcha, and Muten Roshi from it's pure power (Roshi even had a hard time trying to comprehend what just happened) as well as surprising Piccolo from knowing the technique since it's something his clan uses. Ten hit bullseye with Tao while Goku admits that he hit Chi-Chi harder than he meant to. Chi-Chi also fared better against the move Goku defeated her with as she got up just fine with hardly a hair out of place while Tao was KO'd.

I feel it now leaves us with an ambiguous chain between them:

Goku > Piccolo > Kami (Shen) ~ Tenshinhan > Kuririn > Yamcha > Cyborg Tao >=< Chi-Chi > Yajirobe > Chaozu > Chapa-o

[Lord Beerus]

I'd back Chi Chi to win against Cyborg Tao as well. But it would be a very close battle.

[Dayspring]

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai is stronger. Cyborg is stronger than non-cyborg version, while both are stronger than Kamesennin. There's a Weekly Shonen Jump article/cover at one point that listed Chichi as being weaker than Kamesennin (BP of 130 to his 139).

[Diotor]

I honestly wouldn't really want to bet either way. I'd possibly give Cyborg Tao the edge over Chi Chi, with her definently having the upper hand on fully human Tao.

[Son Edo]

I think CTPP is stronger than both Goku and Ten from the 22nd Budokai.

[buutenks]

Cyborg and normal tao are stronger than chi chi.Chi chi showed nothing to put her on 21st budokai krillin level let alone tao pai pai.

Also,goku didnt kick her out of the ring with a kiai,he kicked her out by the air force his punch generated.

[FoolsGil]

Tao would mop the floor with Chi Chi.

-Metal Body
-Hidden Sword
-Super Dodonpa
-Professional Assassin for centuries

vs

-Human Body
-Warrior Princess? (The way they dress, seems she and Ox King are waging war.)
-Not wearing her helmet, cannot use ki abilities
-Trained in the Turtle Style for less than 20 years

I place Chi Chi at the strongest humans level, but she's closer to Nam and Pomputt. To take out Tao, she'd need be as strong as Tenshinhan. That's...not kosher. At all.

[DBZAOTA482]

Cyborg and normal tao are stronger than chi chi.Chi chi showed nothing to put her on 21st budokai krillin level let alone tao pai pai.

Also,goku didnt kick her out of the ring with a kiai,he kicked her out by the air force his punch generated.

1. She can jump super high in the air like Kuririn can from that tournament and with total ease, and her fighting prowess is also comparable to those from the 22nd Budokai (her fast flurries are full of mix-ups, can apparently flash step, and can fight well in the air). Also, like I said she gave a Match level Weighted Goku a relentless time.

2. It is Kiai..well, a form of it. Piccolo specifically mentions it as being one of the techniques his people use and Roshi had a hard time trying to comprehend what just happened.

I place Chi Chi at the strongest humans level, but she's closer to Nam and Pomputt. To take out Tao, she'd need be as strong as Tenshinhan. That's...not kosher. At all.

Why must you insult Namu like that? And how would beating Tao imply she's as strong as Tenshinhan considering Ten took him out so easily?

[FoolsGil]

I place Chi Chi at the strongest humans level, but she's closer to Nam and Pomputt. To take out Tao, she'd need be as strong as Tenshinhan. That's...not kosher. At all.

Why must you insult Namu like that? And how would beating Tao imply she's as strong as Tenshinhan considering Ten took him out so easily?

Apparently we are not watching the same anime. Chi Chi was taken out with an AIR BLAST. You think if she was anywhere near Tao's level that would have happened?

You know who else was taken out with an air blast? Yamcha. And I don't see any "Who's stronger? Yamcha vs Goku (21st Budokai") topics.

[DBZAOTA482]

I place Chi Chi at the strongest humans level, but she's closer to Nam and Pomputt. To take out Tao, she'd need be as strong as Tenshinhan. That's...not kosher. At all.

Why must you insult Namu like that? And how would beating Tao imply she's as strong as Tenshinhan considering Ten took him out so easily?

Apparently we are not watching the same anime. Chi Chi was taken out with an AIR BLAST. You think if she was anywhere near Tao's level that would have happened?

You know who else was taken out with an air blast? Yamcha. And I don't see any "Who's stronger? Yamcha vs Goku (21st Budokai") topics.

Piccolo was hit with an "air blast" too and it stunned even him. Is he weak too? Also, Tao was taken out with a single punch to the gut by Ten only he was knocked out.

Jackie used a different move against Yamcha (though both still got quite a reaction). He was literally swept out the ring while Chi-Chi was hit in the face with pure ki (shockwave fist), and Goku even admits to hitting her harder than he intended.

[FoolsGil]

Piccolo was hit with an "air blast" too and it stunned even him. Is he weak too?

If he was knocked out of the ring as well? Then yes, I would consider him weak.

Also, Tao was taken out with a single punch to the gut by Ten only he was knocked out.

So because Tenshinhan knocked Tao out with a punch, Chi Chi could do the same thing? No, that's not how shonen anime work.

Jackie used a different move against Yamcha (though both still got quite a reaction). He was literally swept out the ring while Chi-Chi was hit in the face with pure ki (shockwave fist), and Goku even admits to hitting her harder than he intended.

Well, if Chi Chi was worth her salt, she would have been stunned, not knocked out of the ring. If she was only stunned, and came back at Goku with fervor, then I could see her being a worthy foe against Tao.

[DBZAOTA482]

Piccolo was hit with an "air blast" too and it stunned even him. Is he weak too?

If he was knocked out of the ring as well? Then yes, I would consider him weak.

Also, Tao was taken out with a single punch to the gut by Ten only he was knocked out.

So because Tenshinhan knocked Tao out with a punch, Chi Chi could do the same thing? No, that's not how shonen anime work.

Jackie used a different move against Yamcha (though both still got quite a reaction). He was literally swept out the ring while Chi-Chi was hit in the face with pure ki (shockwave fist), and Goku even admits to hitting her harder than he intended.

Well, if Chi Chi was worth her salt, she would have been stunned, not knocked out of the ring. If she was only stunned, and came back at Goku with fervor, then I could see her being a worthy foe against Tao.

1. Piccolo was well-established to be on a completely different league from pretty much everyone else at the tournament except for Goku (all of whom are masters in their own rights) so him not being ringed out doesn't really doesn't really speak volumes for Chi-Chi's weakness (especially since she still got up just fine from the attack) and the fact it's able to affect him is proof of that. Also, Piccolo was in the air when Goku hit him with the technique so it couldn't possibly ring him out.

2. Never said Chi-Chi could beat Tao like that. Just saying it's possible she can beat Tao in a fight(organic or cybernetic) considering she apparently gave Goku more trouble when they fought than Tao did Tenshinhan (barring his weapons), and both Goku AND Ten are suggested to have been largely holding back against both of them.

3. Again, Goku and Piccolo were both monsters on a completely different level from everyone else at the tournament so being defeated easily by them doesn't exactly speak volumes for anyone's weakness plus if Chi-Chi really was that weak then Goku coulda just used an ordinary kick to get her out of the ring like he does for the preliminary fodder. Not excessive force. Yet Toriyama-sensei had Goku use a technique Kami taught him in order to do just that (a long-ranged, invisible attack).

[FoolsGil]

2. Never said Chi-Chi could beat Tao like that. Just saying it's possible she can beat Tao in a fight(organic or cybernetic) considering she apparently gave Goku more trouble when they fought than Tao did Tenshinhan (barring his weapons), and both Goku AND Ten are suggested to have been largely holding back against both of them.

It's all just speculation with you. Once again, shonen anime doesn't work like that.

[buutenks]

I rechecked the manga and roshi explains that chi chi was thrown out of the ring by the wind his blow created.

ALso chi chi did indeed jump pretty high,however so did nam and 21st budokai kid goku and both are below normal tao pai pai,let alone cyborg tao.

So while she is strong,proly on the level of nam,not enough to take on tao pai pai.

[DBZAOTA482]

It's all just speculation with you. Once again, shonen anime doesn't work like that.

Yeah, maybe so but so is the "air blast" business.

I rechecked the manga and roshi explains that chi chi was thrown out of the ring by the wind his blow created.

Roshi wasn't sure what it was. He couldn't even see it (I think that tells us Goku didn't take it completely easy on her). Yamcha and Kuririn probably couldn't either judging by their shock.

Also, he says something different according to Herms' translation:

Chapter: 171, P10.4
Context: after Goku blows Chi-Chi out of the ring, seemingly without doing anything
Kame-sennin: “He didn’t just do nothing...Goku probably pumped his fist with stupendous force…The shockwave-like thing created then blew the girl away before she had time to avoid it…”

[buutenks]

It's all just speculation with you. Once again, shonen anime doesn't work like that.

True, but so is the "air blast" business.

I rechecked the manga and roshi explains that chi chi was thrown out of the ring by the wind his blow created.

Roshi wasn't sure what it was. He couldn't even see it (I think that tells us Goku didn't take it completely easy on her). Yamcha and Kuririn probably couldn't either judging by their shock.

Also, he says something different according to Herms' translation:

Chapter: 171, P10.4
Context: after Goku blows Chi-Chi out of the ring, seemingly without doing anything
Kame-sennin: “He didn’t just do nothing...Goku probably pumped his fist with stupendous force…The shockwave-like thing created then blew the girl away before she had time to avoid it…”

That is called force of the wind blew her away.

A kiai is when someone release their ki to push something.Goku used brute force to do that.

[DBZAOTA482]

It's all just speculation with you. Once again, shonen anime doesn't work like that.

True, but so is the "air blast" business.

I rechecked the manga and roshi explains that chi chi was thrown out of the ring by the wind his blow created.

Roshi wasn't sure what it was. He couldn't even see it (I think that tells us Goku didn't take it completely easy on her). Yamcha and Kuririn probably couldn't either judging by their shock.

Also, he says something different according to Herms' translation:

Chapter: 171, P10.4
Context: after Goku blows Chi-Chi out of the ring, seemingly without doing anything
Kame-sennin: “He didn’t just do nothing...Goku probably pumped his fist with stupendous force…The shockwave-like thing created then blew the girl away before she had time to avoid it…”

That is called force of the wind blew her away.

A kiai is when someone release their ki to push something.Goku used brute force to do that.

A shockwave is a form of energy and it's what Kiai basically is, ergo Goku used a variation of Kiai to defeat her. You're also not factoring in how Kuririn, Yamcha, or Muten Roshi (definitely) couldn't see it and Piccolo pointing out how it's a technique his clan uses.