Complete list of plotholes/continuity issues in the manga?

[Tyro]

What am I missing here? If Shenlong really did grant a wish in Battle of Gods, that would be one wish out of three used, so the Dragon Balls should reactive in 4 months, at which point all 3 wishes would be available, because the downtime has already been spent reactivating the used wish. There should have been 3 wishes available in Revival of "F", no? Unless resurrecting Freeza took up 2 wishes just like resurrecting a group of people.

[TripleRach]

In manga Freeza states that Planet Vegeta was destroyed by him 30 years prior to his fight with Goku on Namek. It doesn't make sense, and doesn't fit with anything.

That's not a plothole. The line is "roughly 30 years ago," not "exactly 30 years ago." And it made plenty of sense. The exact number at the time would've been about 25 years (Gokuu's age), which rounds up to 30. The 730s were also three decades before the 760s.

Of course the new information in BOG and Minus puts it closer to 20 years now, but Freeza's line still wasn't an exact number. And it still happened in the the 730s.

[Mystic Tien]

Way to over exaggerate. Besides if you want to be consistent you can reread an familiarize yourself with the story (Which I think he said he did), and also have people around to help craft the stories. Like an editor. Hell I believe he said Naho Ooishi knows Dragon Ball better than him. Not to say she could make a better story, just that she's more knowledgeable. Have her around or someone like her to help him out.

Yeah, he read indeed:

At any rate, it was quite a long time ago that I drew Dragon Ball, so I had to start by working to remember it. I pulled out the comics [i.e., the tankōbon] of my own work, which it’s fair to say I never look at; and as I flipped through it, even though I’ve gotten older, as you’d expect of the original creator, I was quickly able to recapture the feeling from back then.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -comments/

The fact that it’s easier to write a work that’s not new, where you know the characters and the world. Although, since I’m the type of person who doesn’t re-read his own work, I had completely forgotten the story. I read a bit of it over again, and I was able to recall the feeling of back when I drew it. (laughs) A manga artist has it easy when he already knows, “This character moves like this”.

This was the first time since putting out the Kanzenban4 that I had properly read through the manga I had drawn. I couldn’t remember the next developments, so as I was reading it, I fretted, “Am I gonna be OK, expanding the story this much?” (laughs) But if I don’t forget what I’ve drawn, the next idea won’t come to me. Perhaps my memory’s capacity is less than other people’s? (laughs)

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/


But there was also this:

Please tell us what lines and things you were particular about while supervising the scenario.
I was conscious of having content that children could understand, and not getting too serious. Also, this time there is a “god” as the subject, I thought I should make it light so it wouldn’t get religion-y. And also, I was careful not to give them difficult, abstract/conceptual dialogue. At first, when I was doing the supervision, there were times when I struggled because I couldn’t remember what sort of personality a character had. But once I finally remembered, the characterization would already be complete, so it became quite easy.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/


And this:

I’m always changing costumes and hairstyles, so rather than being particular, there are times when I can’t recall what sort of hairstyle they had. (laughs) When I handed the roughs over to the anime staff, there were even characters I’d given the wrong hair color to. (laughs)

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/

[dbzfan7]

Way to over exaggerate.

Do not speak like this to other people.

And this isn't over exaggerating a viewpoint of mine and taking that point way too far to an insulting degree?

Toriyama makes mistakes in his stories after returning to the franchise that he hadn't been writting stories for 18 years. What a motherfucking asshole.

[Mystic Tien]

Of course the new information in BOG and Minus puts it closer to 20 years now, but Freeza's line still wasn't an exact number. And it still happened in the the 730s.

But exactly. I meant that it didn't match what was said in BoG and Minus.

[EXBadguy]

Err that has nothing to do with the topic nor what dbzfan7 even said Super Saiyan God does not contradict anything at all...

I was trying to relate to what he said.

If those are supposed to be the "big bad scary plotholes of the new material", you're overblowing the hell out of them.

*ahem* Inconsistencies! NOT plotholes, unless they both mean the same thing.

What, explicitly shown in the manga, does little Goku coming to Earth wearing clothes contradict?

Simple, read the manga first, then read Minus.

Remember, Goku was short as hell until he was 16, Goten and Trunks could simply be taking a while to hit their growth spurt. I'm not seeing what the Super Saiyan God backstory explicitly contradicts. Dende's voice has nothing to do with Toriyama.

I'm not saying Goten and Trunks need to look taller. I'm just saying that they should've had refined features in their physique. Toriyama did it with Gohan during the Cell saga. Plus Goten's hair was long at the end of Z, so why didn't they follow that, starting with a different hairstyle. And their voices should've been mildly deeper.

Plus, as I said about Super Saiyan God, it just messes up the Legendary Super Saiyan backstory, it felt forced in. I'm sure as hell DB was never like that before, and if it was, it didn't mess with established history, it was just only a fight or scene that was unmentioned, compared to a form.

Fair point on Bulma's age and Dende's physical appearance, but the former has the easy explanation of being a carry over from the original script which was missed, which at the very least would preclude calling Toriyama's contemporary competence into question (or Bulma was just lying; older women stereotypically do that, you know).

You haven't done a very good job of demonstrating how these ones are "inexcusable", in contrast to the ones in the manga that "can be overlooked" and "figured out".

Fine, you win on Bulma, but the Dende situation, that's unforgivable compared to most of the plotholes and inconsistencies the original series had. Oh, and let's not forget that Whis should've been at least mentioned in the Buu saga, since the Kais were around.

[VegettoEX]

Simple, read the manga first, then read Minus.

This is not an appropriate answer ("Take dozens of hours to read the entirety of the franchise and get back to me, lulz").

If you're not willing to have the conversation, don't contribute.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Plus, as I said about Super Saiyan God, it just messes up the Legendary Super Saiyan backstory, it felt forced in. I'm sure as hell DB was never like that before, and if it was, it didn't mess with established history, it was just only a fight or scene that was unmentioned, compared to a form.

It doesn't mess the Super Saiyan Legend at all. In fact it changes nothing really, the Original Super Saiyan God had no impact. Nothing changed. To paraphrase Shenron "he vanished as quickly as he came".

[Zephyr]

Simple, read the manga first, then read Minus.

Couldn't you just explain your complaint, rather than telling me to look for what you have a problem with in the hopes that I actually, by some miracle, manage to find out what your complaint entails?

I'm just saying that they should've had refined features in their physique. Toriyama did it with Gohan during the Cell saga. Plus Goten's hair was long at the end of Z, so why didn't they follow that, starting with a different hairstyle. And their voices should've been mildly deeper.

This all would have been nice, but saying that all of this not being done is "waaaaaaay worse" than the problems the manga has is ridiculously overblowing the severity of them.

Plus, as I said about Super Saiyan God, it just messes up the Legendary Super Saiyan backstory, it felt forced in

The "Legendary Super Saiyan backstory" was messed up the instant Goku wasn't a savage motherfucker against Freeza. Being "forced in", even if we agree on a means of quantifying that, does not an inconsistency make.

it didn't mess with established history, it was just only a fight or scene that was unmentioned.

Of course it did. A survivor from the Red Ribbon Army making robits stronger than the super crazy, already eye-rolling-ly uber powerful space emperor (who was only defeated when an ancient space-viking prophecy was actualized)? If Dragon Ball ended on Namek, and a new movie came out that was the exact same plot as the Cell arc, I'm having a hard time not imagining an enormous vocal portion of the fanbase crying foul over Toriyama "shitting all over the original story".

the Dende situation, that's unforgivable compared to most of the plotholes and inconsistencies the original series had.

Can you actually explain why you feel this way? Just telling me you feel a certain way does nothing to stimulate conversation. It only allows for me to say "I disagree" and then we end the conversation. At that point, there's no reason for the conversation, as our posts need amount to little more than posts at chatroom levels of sophistication. And that's specifically not the point of his message board. I'm fairly certain that the people who pay for this site want us to contribute posts that contain intellectual substance.

[Faustus]

You may not like it, but the Super Saiyan God backstory causes no more inconsistency than Dr. Gero. Just another contrived retcon.

Also, I just noticed this, but am I the only one who's seriously bothered by this?:

Yo that blue super saiyan is so fucking bad, that even the fans at Japan don't like it either! And I thought those fans would like anything Toriyama shits out!

[EXBadguy]

Simple, read the manga first, then read Minus.

Couldn't you just explain your complaint, rather than telling me to look for what you have a problem with in the hopes that I actually, by some miracle, manage to find out what your complaint entails?

And I thought you knew about it... Okay, Goku was in the spaceship NAKED in the original series while in Minus he had clothes on.

That better for you?

[Of course it did. A survivor from the Red Ribbon Army making robits stronger than the super crazy, already eye-rolling-ly uber powerful space emperor (who was only defeated when an ancient space-viking prophecy was actualized)? If Dragon Ball ended on Namek, and a new movie came out that was the exact same plot as the Cell arc, I'm having a hard time not imagining an enormous vocal portion of the fanbase crying foul over Toriyama "shitting all over the original story". .

That has nothing to do with messing with established backstories. Plus, the difference is that there were some unanswered parts in the RRA saga, and those are the androids, so it's not as contriving as the inconsistencies and the plotholes of the new movies.

[Can you actually explain why you feel this way?.

Age inconsistencies is unforgivable as a whole. Dunno what else to say.

[Doctor.]

Okay, Goku was in the spaceship NAKED in the original series while in Minus he had clothes on.

I'm pretty sure Goku arriving on Earth was never shown in the manga.

[Cetra]

Age inconsistencies is unforgivable as a whole. Dunno what else to say.

And I thought you liked GT. Because they obviously thought Bra was older.

[MCDaveG]

This is also 2015, and perish the thought people actually want some consistency in the story telling.

This is 2015 and Internet had already changed entertainment for better or worse.
Back in 90s you watched in weekly schedule, knowing that unless you spend ridiculous amount of money for VHS you are not going to see it any time soon. After that you could discuss it in close circle of friends. Fast forward and you can record/download/buy on BR whatever you want. And even before the episode ends you have tons of revives, recap and analyses from every possible POV and fora are already full of questions discussions and thoughts. And from some reasons writing that you just like the show is not enough anymore. If it doesn't create ideal climate for nitpicking I don't know what does.
But that's just us the eldery. Kids enjoy DB as they did in their cheerful, native way. Judging from stories and thread about an age, average Kanzenshuu user is in his 20s and had been in touch with franchise for some years- it would have been naive to think that they love it the same way the children who watch it for the first time does. I think that (over)analyse, and complaining about good old says is a stage that awaits for every fan. The only think that we must understand is that nitpicking and even poking fun doesn't mean that somebody stopped caring.

This! I am happy that I can relate here to someone being from the same ''region'' and we did the same, or rather simmilar things regarding watching our favorite shows.
Nowadays, there is youtube full of 98% useless videos of people making videos about videos, some of them are not even looking nice nor can actually talk in a way pleasant to my ears
and kids including my little brother are actually watching this s**t instead of buying fireworks from Vietnamese sellers and destroying stuff or doing something else adventurous and dangerous on weekday afternoon stuff.
Hell, as a kid, I crashed my head bleeding three times, had broken leg, cut myself over sume rubble countless times and almost killed myself on a bike. In-between school and this dangerous s**t, I was watching Dragon Ball and discussing it at school.
I think that this age of digital and technology is spamming us with rubbish and instead of doing something real and actual, people are more phylosophical and analytical and spend too much time with it.
Unfortunately, I am a trendy guy, so I go with the flow as I age.

PS: Listened to the podcast with Chriss, man, I was dying of laughter in a subway as he imitated these in-universe comments, like ''bluh-bluh, Gohan is a Super Saiyan, bluh bluh'' it doesn't matter...

[Dayspring]

Simple, read the manga first, then read Minus.

Couldn't you just explain your complaint, rather than telling me to look for what you have a problem with in the hopes that I actually, by some miracle, manage to find out what your complaint entails?

And I thought you knew about it... Okay, Goku was in the spaceship NAKED in the original series while in Minus he had clothes on.

That better for you?

Reason number one to stop being a prat: VegettoEX already told you to.

Reason number two to stop being a prat: the naked spaceship thing is Bardock Special, not manga. In book 2, Kamesennin recalls how Gohan found a child who was gifted in strength and decided to teach him martial arts. In book 17, Raditz calls Goku a baby as a means of insulting his power (meaning, the reason he was supposedly a baby when sent to Earth is because he's still being considered a baby). Kamesennin's origin story is therefore unreliable because he clearly can't remember the details of what Gohan told him unless prompted by someone else beforehand.

[EXBadguy]

Okay, Goku was in the spaceship NAKED in the original series while in Minus he had clothes on.

I'm pretty sure Goku arriving on Earth was never shown in the manga.

Lemme rephrase then, he didn't have any clothes on during the Frieza war and arrived to earth naked.

And I thought you liked GT. Because they obviously thought Bra was older.

Oh I still do like GT ten times better, I just think it's more enjoyable and sensible then those two movies. But I won't ignore the age inconsistency in that either. I know what right is right and wrong is wrong, unlike some people here who don't and has the "Toriyama glasses"(for example when Toriyama does Gold Freeza, it gets praised, but if Toei does did the same thing, it'll get horribly panned, and THAT'S A FUCKIN' FACT!).

[VegettoEX]

I know what right is right and wrong is wrong, unlike some people here

You are out out of line. You are obnoxious and out of control. All of your contributions are completely toxic and unacceptable. You do not listen to moderation and continue to act this way.

You have no more chances. This is it. If you post anything else that is in any way in this style, you will no longer have access to this website.

This is not your playhouse.

[Doctor.]

Lemme rephrase then, he didn't have any clothes on during the Freeza war and arrived to earth naked.

Still not getting you... baby Goku was never shown in the manga, that I recall of, so we don't know if he arrived on Earth naked or not.

[EXBadguy]

To the mod, sorry. I'll shut up about it, then.

In book 2, Kamesennin recalls how Gohan found a child who was gifted in strength and decided to teach him martial arts. In book 17, Raditz calls Goku a baby as a means of insulting his power (meaning, the reason he was supposedly a baby when sent to Earth is because he's still being considered a baby). Kamesennin's origin story is therefore unreliable because he clearly can't remember the details of what Gohan told him unless prompted by someone else beforehand.

What're you talking about?

Lemme rephrase then, he didn't have any clothes on during the Freeza war and arrived to earth naked.

Still not getting you... baby Goku was never shown in the manga, that I recall of, so we don't know if he arrived on Earth naked or not.

I thought Toriyama was within an agreement with Toei on some stuff. I thought Toriyama would just write some stories to Toei and let them put them out.

[Gaffer Tape]

He was shown as a baby in the manga, but it was in Raditz's thoughts and in no way gave any context or surrounding details. It was just an image of a baby Goku in a word balloon. There was no spaceship, no... Freeza war (I'm not even sure what that is)... no information whatsoever other than implying that this is how Raditz remembered "Kakarrotto."