Toriyama's racial/ist character portrayals?

[Sayo-chan]

Toriyama is a fan of both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies. Check out this interview:

That's interesting to hear. I don't know if I'd say fan, but he seems to acknowledge the stature of Enter the Dragon, and that he really liked that movie in particular, which is pleasant to hear. I'd be curious to know what he thinks of his other movies, such as Fist of Fury.

[Big Momma]

Toriyama is a fan of both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies. Check out this interview:

That's interesting to hear. I don't know if I'd say fan...

I don't think a non-fan would see a movie ten days straight, or claim to have seen another over 300 times.

[Sayo-chan]

Toriyama is a fan of both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies. Check out this interview:

That's interesting to hear. I don't know if I'd say fan...

I don't think a non-fan would see a movie ten days straight, or claim to have seen another over 300 times.

So if I like Forrest Gump, watched it religiously when it was in theaters and say it's one my all time favorite movies, I'm therefore a fan of Tom Hanks? That's a pretty big non sequitur. I also like how you cherry picked part of my statement then ignored the rest that specified I was referring to Enter the Dragon and therefore Lee.

[Big Momma]

So if I like Forrest Gump, watched it religiously when it was in theaters and say it's one my all time favorite movies, I'm therefore a fan of Tom Hanks? That's a pretty big non sequitur. I also like how you cherry picked part of my statement then ignored the rest that specified I was referring to Enter the Dragon and therefore Lee.

I would imagine so, since you probably enjoyed his performance (among other things) enough to watch it that much. And I didn't really cherry pick. Zenkai made the claim that "]Toriyama is a fan of both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies" and the first thing you said was "I don't know if I'd say fan". I was directly responding to that. There's also plenty of inspiration from Bruce Lee films to be found in Dragon Ball, and both Toriyama and Chan are fans of each other. Toriyama also outright states in a Super Exciting Guide interview that he's a "fan of their movies."

[Sayo-chan]

So if I like Forrest Gump, watched it religiously when it was in theaters and say it's one my all time favorite movies, I'm therefore a fan of Tom Hanks? That's a pretty big non sequitur. I also like how you cherry picked part of my statement then ignored the rest that specified I was referring to Enter the Dragon and therefore Lee.

I would imagine so, since you probably enjoyed his performance (among other things) enough to watch it that much. And I didn't really cherry pick. Zenkai made the claim that "]Toriyama is a fan of both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies" and the first thing you said was "I don't know if I'd say fan". I was directly responding to that. There's also plenty of inspiration from Bruce Lee films to be found in Dragon Ball, and both Toriyama and Chan are fans of each other. Toriyama also outright states in a Super Exciting Guide interview that he's a "fan of their movies."

Then you would be imagining wrong. Love the movie, don't care for Hanks. Even if I liked his performance in the movie, you're still making an assumption that I would like anything beyond that, which is as I've stated, a non sequitur; it does not follow. That is cherry picking though, because your statement references his sentiments about Jackie, when my statement had absolutely nothing to with him. That would be like if I quoted part of your statement, despite the fact the rest of the statement changes the entire meaning. I never contested that he was a fan of him, seeing that I earlier said he has a bias for him (i.e. context clues mark Jackie as irrelevant). Now that link provides further context. What was posted, which was what I was replying to, doesn't give any indication beyond liking Enter the Dragon.

I would also like a citation on what Bruce Lee films have influenced Dragon Ball.

[Big Momma]

I would also like a citation on what Bruce Lee films have influenced Dragon Ball.

The most notable one I can think of off the top of my head is Muscle Tower, taking after Game of Death.

[jjgp1112]

What does Jackie Chan vs. Bruce Lee have to do with anything in this thread? That whole conversation has veered way off topic.

[StrawHatPatriot]

I don't see why people don't want to realize why others might be put-off by the way those characters are drawn.

I mean, look at how Mr. Popo looks, and he acts and speaks in the original source material, it's basically the caricature itself. Whether or not you think their intent wasn't to offend, I find it naive and shortsighted to think that people are just making this any issue because they are looking for things to be offended by.

Commander Black or Killa aren't as bad, because they aren't really trying to go for that type of blatant caricature (as mentioned, the lip style for them is similar to other anime characters), but I'm tired of the way people say stuff like "you're so over-sensitive" or "stop trying to be offended".

There is no racism in media unless some people claim to see some. Like Jinx in Pokémon.
I don't see anything racist in Dragon Ball only weird people trying to find something.

How come, that no one points out Lando Calrissian in Empire Strikes Back as a typical pimp stereotype?

Come on dude.




Just look at the first line of images here

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bl ... &FORM=AWIR

Just because you don't find anything offensive, that doesn't mean it's fair to insult or demean other people who do.

It's not hard to see. I mean, some minorities can actually get caricature crap like this thrown RIGHT at their FACES in public.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Popo isn't even human, he's a magical being with pointy ears and no nose... and his features are not exaggerated like they are in those caricatures, his lips do not cover half of his face, and he doesn't act like an uncivilized idiot.

[Doctor.]

he doesn't act like an uncivilized idiot.

Isn't his speech really, really, basic? Or was that a fault on Viz?

[Vegitofaxx]

he doesn't act like an uncivilized idiot.

Isn't his speech really, really, basic? Or was that a fault on Viz?

His speech is basic in Japanese as well. But he still makes smart decisions and acts politely. So he's neither an idiot, nor uncivilized.

[UpFromTheSkies]

he doesn't act like an uncivilized idiot.

Isn't his speech really, really, basic? Or was that a fault on Viz?

What would that have to do with anything? Basic speech =/= uncivilized idiot. Yoda has a very basic speech, and he's not seen as an idiot, he's a wise guru.

[Monkey King Vegeta]

Mr.Popo was drawn in a ridiculous way, it doesn't get anymore "blackface" than that

But his outfit doesn't scream out black/African to me, so it could slide under the dirty rug.

The US has a bad history with racism, this is evident in their caricatures, theres a clip on YT (Lazy Town) about, well.... it's disturbing to say the least, one thing is for sure.... you can't say these people didn't know what the f*ck they where doing.

This ridicule is still alive today in the animation, I can't recall an episode of Family Guy where a minority wasn't the center of a terrible joke, when is the last time you saw a racial joke about a middle aged white guy on TV?

Anyways, back on the Japan topic, it's obvious they pick up stuff from the West, so all blame can't be put on the Japanese for their crude depictions of others that they don't have contact with on a daily basis, the only problem with them is the way they draw other asian people in comparison to the Japanese characters (not all the times).

I've seen anime where even the Russians and Mexicans had more oriental looking eyes than the Japanese characters, and as much as I love OP, there is a lot of racism and other issues that need to be fixed.

[Payne222]

Did you really just say the Japanese can't be held responsible and that it's the West's fault?

Also, you must never watch prime time comedies on ABC, NBC or CBS because they joke about everyone in their shows.

[jjgp1112]

Popo isn't even human, he's a magical being with pointy ears and no nose... and his features are not exaggerated like they are in those caricatures, his lips do not cover half of his face, and he doesn't act like an uncivilized idiot.

You're being very obtuse about this. Just because the character isn't African American doesn't mean his appearance isn't clearly based on a racial caricature. Regardless of intention, the dark skinned/gigantic red lips look is a minstrel show staple.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Other than the fact that Popo has red lips and black skin, he looks and behaves nothing like the racist caricatures in the Lazy Town cartoon, they have huge lips that cover half of their faces and exaggerated noses, Popo doesn't even have a nose.

If we recolor Popo, there is absolutely nothing about him that would link him to black people or racist caractures:

[jjgp1112]

But he's not that color, so I'm not sure what your point is. If I make General Black's skin gold and his lips blue his appearance isn't a racial caricature either! Again, he doesn't have to be a certain race for his appearance to not be based on that race anyway.

[UpFromTheSkies]

But he's not that color, so I'm not sure what your point is. Again, he doesn't have to be a certain race for his appearance to not be based on that race anyway.

My point is that the color of his skin and lips are the only things linking him to racist caricatures of black people. He doesn't have exaggerated features, and he doesn't behave in an idiotic, lazy, uncivilized fashion like the racist caricatures, so I don't see how anyone can say he's racist.

[Payne222]

Just because the character isn't African American doesn't mean his appearance isn't clearly based on a racial caricature. Regardless of intention, the dark skinned/gigantic red lips look is a minstrel show staple.

Even if he was a black character, like General Black and Killa, they wouldn't necessarily be African American...

[UpFromTheSkies]

If putting thick lips on a character is racist, then African American comedian Bill Cosby, and all of the African Americans who watched and enjoyed his cartoons must be racist because his cartoon characters have lips bigger than Mr Popo