Death Battle: Goku vs Superman 2

[Polyphase Avatron]

This battle was done completely unfair! why? because they used post crisis and 52 superman against some movie version of Goku?

They also tried to make superman somekind of indomitable omnipotent tie breaker hero!?? since when did superman had all that strenght huh? Superman can become limitless thru the power of sun, but before he can reach that level it will take billion of years.
I would like to see if screw attack was to do God Cloth Seiya vs Superman death battle! Seiya could literally punch billions of exploding galaxies at superman in 1 second before he even realizes what hit him and vaporize him beyond existance! lol
And not even pre crisis feats will save him!

Actually I'm pretty sure that Silver Age Superman could beat even God Saints and would only lose to the Olympians. I've seen it argued before.

[dbzfan7]

I don't really like this match up because of how blatantly one-sided it is. As a Goku and Cell exchange once went.

*From my Vizbig*
Cell: This is how it should be. It's no fun unless you're well matched.
Goku: Yeah, I've always said so.

This isn't well matched at all. If anything Goku should be fighting someone on his level, not someone so far above there's no point in even raising the question. I like close fights, especially when it comes to crossovers. I'm not a fan of lolstomps, like when people bring up well....Goku vs Galactus for instance. I've seen it, and it's even worse of a stomp than this.

I'll say this for the last time as this is a repeat, but the last fight was so much more fun to watch. Yes the result is obvious, but at least it was a huge joy to watch. Mr. Lange made a very memorable fight, or at least the script was far more memorable. From Superman moving super fast and dodging Goku. Goku going SSJ at a dire moment. Superman easily punching Goku out of the Zanzouken. The SSJ4 transformation. The beam clash. The friggen finale. So much was more memorable.

I forgot this fight already. It was that boring. Supes had 1 cool moment, and that's about it. To me the fight pretty much represented the backlash. Superman was the reasonable guy trying to stop this. Goku was the eager guy who so badly wanted to win that it was annoying Superman. Finally Superman snapped and ended the fight easily once he had enough. Kaio explained the creators ideology finally calming down the eager Goku.

[GokuRules987]

This battle was done completely unfair! why? because they used post crisis and 52 superman against some movie version of Goku?

They also tried to make superman somekind of indomitable omnipotent tie breaker hero!?? since when did superman had all that strenght huh? Superman can become limitless thru the power of sun, but before he can reach that level it will take billion of years.
I would like to see if screw attack was to do God Cloth Seiya vs Superman death battle! Seiya could literally punch billions of exploding galaxies at superman in 1 second before he even realizes what hit him and vaporize him beyond existance! lol
And not even pre crisis feats will save him!

Actually I'm pretty sure that Silver Age Superman could beat even God Saints and would only lose to the Olympians. I've seen it argued before.

Wait what? lol Just about any Gold Saint could beat SA superman dude. How will he tank a galaxy busting attack focused on each of his atom without even realizing it? How would he fight shaka who is considered the man closest to god and can take anyones 5 senses away wthout even blinking? How could he deal with Deathmask that can create a galaxy at a tip of his finger and just randomly throw at superman lol!?

And God cloth Saints are on a complete different level that can cross thousands of universes/dimensions in seconds, tank big bang(universe busting attacks at point blank range without a scratch) And someone like seiya could punch billion times with a fraction of a second with a force of galaxy exploding.

Even if silver age superman was to try to invent a new power he'll be dead long before that.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm not very familiar with the DC universe. My point is that Goku will never beat Superman and that's a good thing.

Let me tell you a story.

A long time ago, before Goku, Akira Toriyama, or even anime/manga existed, Superman had another popular rival. His name was Captain Marvel, published back then by Fawcett Comics. People would debate Superman vs. Captain Marvel all the time, and the comic writers would constantly have them one-up each other in their stories, each one trying to top the latest crazy thing the other one did.

Eventually, DC bought out Fawcett Comics, and acquired the character of Captain Marvel for themselves. This naturally meant that he joined DC's continuity, and he and Superman would finally meet face-to-face in a canon story. And of course they were going to fight, right? That's what all the fans were waiting for.

Well, actually, they didn't. Not at first. But of course the draw of such an idea was irresistible, and DC eventually made it happen. Who won?

It was a tie. Turns out some villain was manipulating them into fighting each other and when they realized that, they teamed up and kicked his ass.

Superman and Captain Marvel (who would later be renamed to Shazam for copyright purposes) continued to interact and often fight each other throughout their history. You would think that, Superman being DC's flagship character, and Captain Marvel being the former IP of a rival company, they would always either have a tie or make Superman win, right? Wrong. Captain Marvel can, has, and still does win some of the fights. Not as often as Superman does, but he does win sometimes.

So what's the point of this?

DC and Superman's own writers don't consider him nearly as unbeatable as Death Battle does. In an official crossover (if there ever could be such a thing), Goku very well could win. Or he could lose. Or it could end up in a tie when they find out that some villain is manipulating them into fighting each other, after which they team up and go kick said villain's ass.

[Polyphase Avatron]

If Superman lost, the same negative feedback would have happen. DB fans should admit that Superman has better feats overall.

Depends which version of the character you're talking about.

Silver age, Bronze age, Post-Crisis/Re-reboot, most of the really overpowered versions (1 million, Prime 1 million, Cosmic Armor), etc. sure. New 52? I wouldn't really know. Early Post-Crisis, most animated versions, movie versions, etc.? Not really.

Earth 1 Superman, who is the original one, and generally considered the weakest, punched through dimensions and flew through a sun.

Edit: Sorry, I meant Earth 2.

That was after his history was retconned by Crisis on Infinite Earths though.

[Polyphase Avatron]

They mentioned a certain website that does match ups like Death Battle, and for some reason Goku vs Superman debate in that website was ban forever, which site is that ?

http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/

Funnily enough according to them SSJG Goku could very well beat both Post-Crisis and N52 Superman:

http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... e-son-goku
http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... e-superman

I wouldn't trust that wiki, I have a friend who was once a member of the site and he said the information is way out of date/inaccurate on a lot of articles.

[Kamiccolo9]

That was after his history was retconned by Crisis on Infinite Earths though.

Earth 2 Superman, Superboy Prime, and Earth 3 Luthor were unaffected by the Crisis. That was the point of Infinite Crisis, when they attempted to bring the previous Earth 2 back.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It's pretty simple, I'll just sum it up into 4 words because I'm tired right now
Superman is not unbeatable

Well yeah but the way you wrote it it sounded like you were saying there were no beings that couldn't beat Superman, i.e. everyone could beat him.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I am still so salty with the BS outcome, i will leave this thread for now an watch the new DBSuper episode.

[pacz360]

Their logic for this was horrible acting like superman is unbeatable or invincible or even limitless despite doomsday putting him in a coma. This was point blank nlf.

[dbzfan7]

Their logic for this was horrible acting like superman is unbeatable or invincible or even limitless despite doomsday putting him in a coma. This was point blank nlf.

Superman got better after the Doomsday stuff. They pretty much said that. It'd be like saying Goku lost to Raditz so he loses to someone stronger than Raditz.

[pacz360]

They mentioned a certain website that does match ups like Death Battle, and for some reason Goku vs Superman debate in that website was ban forever, which site is that ?

http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/

Funnily enough according to them SSJG Goku could very well beat both Post-Crisis and N52 Superman:

http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... e-son-goku
http://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/inde ... e-superman

I wouldn't trust that wiki, I have a friend who was once a member of the site and he said the information is way out of date/inaccurate on a lot of articles.[/quote]
Well the information there have been recent plus these. Guys at least know what their talking about compated tp death battle.

[Mewzard]

Captain Marvel really is a fitting rival. The man packs the Wisdom of Solomon (known for being a wise king), the Strength of Hercules (a god of heroes known for his insane strength), the Stamina of Atlas (the titan cursed to hold up the sky forever), the Power of Zeus (the Skyfather of Olympus), the Courage of Achilles (the brave and mostly immortal Greek hero), and the Speed of Mercury (the messenger god, known for his speed). You should feel no shame in losing to that kind of power (especially when Captain Marvel calls down Zeus' Thunderbolt on Superman). That's pretty hardcore stats. The fact that Superman does as well as he does is a testament to his power, far beyond mortal norms and even impressive to some gods (though, if DC didn't make Supes immune to most of Darkseid's Omega Effect abilities, he'd have been taken out long ago).

I think far more interesting than Goku fighting Superman would be the two fighting together in the DC Universe. There's so many unique foes for Goku to face, and some him and Superman alone would struggle with. Give Goku a try out with the Justice League, see how a few months fighting across the universe against insane foes goes.

Man, Doomsday vs Superman was like...20 years ago by now, right? Been quite a while.

Also, what on Earth does NLF mean? I've seen this for the first time ever in this thread in several posts.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I'm not very familiar with the DC universe. My point is that Goku will never beat Superman and that's a good thing.

Let me tell you a story.

A long time ago, before Goku, Akira Toriyama, or even anime/manga existed, Superman had another popular rival. His name was Captain Marvel, published back then by Fawcett Comics. People would debate Superman vs. Captain Marvel all the time, and the comic writers would constantly have them one-up each other in their stories, each one trying to top the latest crazy thing the other one did.

Eventually, DC bought out Fawcett Comics, and acquired the character of Captain Marvel for themselves. This naturally meant that he joined DC's continuity, and he and Superman would finally meet face-to-face in a canon story. And of course they were going to fight, right? That's what all the fans were waiting for.

Well, actually, they didn't. Not at first. But of course the draw of such an idea was irresistible, and DC eventually made it happen. Who won?

It was a tie. Turns out some villain was manipulating them into fighting each other and when they realized that, they teamed up and kicked his ass.

Superman and Captain Marvel (who would later be renamed to Shazam for copyright purposes) continued to interact and often fight each other throughout their history. You would think that, Superman being DC's flagship character, and Captain Marvel being the former IP of a rival company, they would always either have a tie or make Superman win, right? Wrong. Captain Marvel can, has, and still does win some of the fights. Not as often as Superman does, but he does win sometimes.

So what's the point of this?

DC and Superman's own writers don't consider him nearly as unbeatable as Death Battle does. In an official crossover (if there ever could be such a thing), Goku very well could win. Or he could lose. Or it could end up in a tie when they find out that some villain is manipulating them into fighting each other, after which they team up and go kick said villain's ass.

The thought of an official Goku and Superman crossover does excite me and I hope it eventually happens some time in the future.

I see what you're saying. Death Battle does make Superman seem unbeatable but as you've stated here and in previous posts he can indeed be beaten. I don't know much about the DC universe outside of blockbuster feature films but I've always had the idea that Supes is unbeatable because of how he's represented. Goku on the other hand, I've always seen him as a dude who just loves to fight. So when I see these two characters clash I always think that Superman is going to win.

I'm just going to keep on hoping for an official crossover.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Wait what? lol Just about any Gold Saint could beat SA superman dude. How will he tank a galaxy busting attack focused on each of his atom without even realizing it?

Someone showed scans of him flying through the Big Bang unharmed once.

How would he fight shaka who is considered the man closest to god and can take anyones 5 senses away wthout even blinking?

Because he has like 50 senses or something. (Yes, I know in Saint Seiya the 6th sense is the mind, but Silver Age Superman also has a bunch of plot-level mental resistance BS too).

How could he deal with Deathmask that can create a galaxy at a tip of his finger and just randomly throw at superman lol!?

A galaxy is mostly empty space. You could throw one at me right now and most of it would miss the solar system. But honestly Silver Age Superman has done ridiculous stuff like overpowered a group of guys who each had the strength of galaxies, and when another guy channeled the energy of 100 galaxies at him at once, he said he only might be in trouble (and ended up winning, IIRC).

And God cloth Saints are on a complete different level that can cross thousands of universes/dimensions in seconds

Actually it was trillions of galaxies, but SA Superman once crossed the universe (billions/trillions of galaxies) in a nanosecond, and can also travel through time at will.

tank big bang(universe busting attacks at point blank range without a scratch)

Like I said, Superman did that too.

And someone like seiya could punch billion times with a fraction of a second with a force of galaxy exploding.

And one time SA Superman was punching someone so hard that all of time and space was being shifted into a different timeline.

Really he was just bullshit powerful back in those days, they had to depower him like twice because it was just getting silly.

[GokuRules987]

I am still so salty with the BS outcome, i will leave this thread for now an watch the new DBSuper episode.

me too time to watch some dragon ball super and restore my faith in humanity.

[Dbzk1999]

Captain Marvel really is a fitting rival. The man packs the Wisdom of Solomon (known for being a wise king), the Strength of Hercules (a god of heroes known for his insane strength), the Stamina of Atlas (the titan cursed to hold up the sky forever), the Power of Zeus (the Skyfather of Olympus), the Courage of Achilles (the brave and mostly immortal Greek hero), and the Speed of Mercury (the messenger god, known for his speed). You should feel no shame in losing to that kind of power (especially when Captain Marvel calls down Zeus' Thunderbolt on Superman). That's pretty hardcore stats. The fact that Superman does as well as he does is a testament to his power, far beyond mortal norms and even impressive to some gods (though, if DC didn't make Supes immune to most of Darkseid's Omega Effect abilities, he'd have been taken out long ago).

I think far more interesting than Goku fighting Superman would be the two fighting together in the DC Universe. There's so many unique foes for Goku to face, and some him and Superman alone would struggle with. Give Goku a try out with the Justice League, see how a few months fighting across the universe against insane foes goes.

Man, Doomsday vs Superman was like...20 years ago by now, right? Been quite a while.
It means no limits fallacy
Also, what on Earth does NLF mean? I've seen this for the first time ever in this thread in several posts.

[TheGmGoken]

Damn already forgot what happen in the battle.

Anyone thinks this battle was to mock the people complainng? I'm curious why they didn't give Goku a better opponent. Superman should have been used by someone else. Wasted two battles for these two

[pacz360]

Their logic for this was horrible acting like superman is unbeatable or invincible or even limitless despite doomsday putting him in a coma. This was point blank nlf.

Superman got better after the Doomsday stuff. They pretty much said that. It'd be like saying Goku lost to Raditz so he loses to someone stronger than Raditz.

Not my point death battle acting like superman is limitless. He isn't he just have a higher threshold than most characters and even then he not the strongest in his universe. Also that lifting infinity feat is inconsistent considering he needed wonder woman and Martin manhunter to pull the earth.

[Polyphase Avatron]

That was after his history was retconned by Crisis on Infinite Earths though.

Earth 2 Superman, Superboy Prime, and Earth 3 Luthor were unaffected by the Crisis. That was the point of Infinite Crisis, when they attempted to bring the previous Earth 2 back.

On paper Darkseid wasn't affected either, but he was completely different afterwards, so I don't quite buy that.