Death Battle: Goku vs Superman 2

[jcogginsa]

As a fan of both Goku and Superman, i'm displeased by the second Death Battle. The "No Limits" thing is a great big hunk of BS that nixes any sort of Credibility the video could have. Superman's got the win based on the feats he shows. Give him the win based on that, and not the No Limits BS

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't Superman absorb as much solar power as he wants without any limits?

Superman passively absorbs Solar Energy. On Occasion he absorbs sunlight from plants.

It's basically like Gas in a Car. He's still got an upper limit. It's just a ridiculously large upper limit. The way Death Battle presents it he has no upper limit

[Kamiccolo9]

As a fan of both Goku and Superman, i'm displeased by the second Death Battle. The "No Limits" thing is a great big hunk of BS that nixes any sort of Credibility the video could have. Superman's got the win based on the feats he shows. Give him the win based on that, and not the No Limits BS

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't Superman absorb as much solar power as he wants without any limits?

Superman passively absorbs Solar Energy. On Occasion he absorbs sunlight from plants.

It's basically like Gas in a Car. He's still got an upper limit. It's just a ridiculously large upper limit. The way Death Battle presents it he has no upper limit

Superman has demonstrated no upper limit to the amount of solar energy he can absorb.

[KentalSSJ6]

Well if you wanna get technical theres All Star Superman. He absorbs so much solar energy it supercharges him but at the same time its slowly killing him by breaking down his cells.

[Mewzard]

Well if you wanna get technical theres All Star Superman. He absorbs so much solar energy it supercharges him but at the same time its slowly killing him by breaking down his cells.

Yet it's also implied to be in the same continuity as DC One Million where he lives for hundreds of thousands of years and spends over 15,000 years inside the Sun growing more power.

I suppose it could just be a limit of time. Maybe he can grow without limit over the span of eternity, but he has a limit of how much growth in so much time.

[dario03]

Well if you wanna get technical theres All Star Superman. He absorbs so much solar energy it supercharges him but at the same time its slowly killing him by breaking down his cells.

Yet it's also implied to be in the same continuity as DC One Million where he lives for hundreds of thousands of years and spends over 15,000 years inside the Sun growing more power.

I suppose it could just be a limit of time. Maybe he can grow without limit over the span of eternity, but he has a limit of how much growth in so much time.

I think that is the one thing that you could use on post crisis Superman to claim he is limitless. Though even then he wasn't completely all powerful. IIRC there was a Universe that he couldn't save for some reason even though he did some crazy thing to save somebody from it.
But really its just the whole concept thing. Their basically saying his writers can do whatever and it would make sense for his character. Where as Goku could be written to do anything as well but for some reason that wouldn't be in character.

Oh and the whole infinity book and Spectre thing.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well if you wanna get technical theres All Star Superman. He absorbs so much solar energy it supercharges him but at the same time its slowly killing him by breaking down his cells.

Yeah but IIRC later on in that series it was revealed that the doctors made a misdiagnosis and he wasn't really dying.

Either way the fact is that he has never been the most powerful being in his own setting, and there have always been tons of characters who could hand him his ass had they the inclination to.

For example the Flash is a lot faster than he is, and he has a lot of cheap abilities that could stop him cold:

[miguelnuva1]

I like how they released this battle right before it was confirmed that Beerus can destroy entire universe by kai's. So then I guess ssj god goku is a 70 percent universe buster and yet he lost against the 52 new superman.

You do know based on the context that Old Kai's statement was mad he meant Beerus was going to keep busting planets or solar systems till he destroyed the Universe not in one shot. Also Goku is 60% of Beerus not 70.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Besides, taking random statements like that at face value is the very same way Death Battle got their ridiculous "Superman is unbeatable" idea from.

[ATEMVEGETA]

So Wonder Woman can lift infinite weight too? From what I see in that Spectre pic, both Superman and Wonder Woman are holding Spectre with the same force. If Wonder Woman didn't "need to be there", thus didn't move anything, as Death Battle mentions, then all the weight would be lifted by Superman and Spectre's body would lean to Superman's side. BS!

[Polyphase Avatron]

So Wonder Woman can lift infinite weight too? From what I see in that Spectre pic, both Superman and Wonder Woman are holding Spectre with the same force. If Wonder Woman didn't "need to be there", thus didn't move anything, as Death Battle mentions, then all the weight would be lifted by Superman and Spectre's body would lean to Superman's side. BS!

Apparently she can, according to them at least. But yeah, I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman needed to be there.

[ATEMVEGETA]

So Wonder Woman can lift infinite weight too? From what I see in that Spectre pic, both Superman and Wonder Woman are holding Spectre with the same force. If Wonder Woman didn't "need to be there", thus didn't move anything, as Death Battle mentions, then all the weight would be lifted by Superman and Spectre's body would lean to Superman's side. BS!

Apparently she can, according to them at least. But yeah, I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman needed to be there.

No! Accodring to them "Wonder Woman (and Shazam) needn't even to be there!" Superman could do the job alone! Also accodring to them, the "Infinity / 2 = In*****finity" applies to Wonder Woman as well. So, screw every fictonal character. Wonder Woman and Superman kicks everyone's ass with a fingertap! Wait! Shazam too? Fuck yea, logic!

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well like I said, I think they were wrong about the others not needing to be there.

Anyway, I just thought of something: Both Goku and Superman have experience farming, why not put them in a contest for who grows the best crops or something? At least that would be a new debate.

[rereboy]

Superman passively absorbs Solar Energy. On Occasion he absorbs sunlight from plants.

It's basically like Gas in a Car. He's still got an upper limit. It's just a ridiculously large upper limit. The way Death Battle presents it he has no upper limit

Because he is literally shown doing things like lifting things with infinite weight, and that's from after he had already been changed to not be so ridiculous (post crisis). And half of infinity still being infinity is just to demonstrate how impossible and broken that feat is. It's literally beyond what makes sense. It was a situation designed to make him do the impossible, and that's what he did, because he is Superman. That was the whole point.

His "upper limits" vary from something much weaker than Goku to pretty much infinity.

The way you are talking, it's almost you think that Deathbattle made this stuff up. It didn't. Superman, when he needs to, basically does what is literally impossible except for a character with no limits. When Superman wants to, he basically has toon force, only without the comedy and taken seriously.

[ATEMVEGETA]

Someone explain me these please:

1) Superman and Wonder Woman have infinite strength, since they both were lifting Spectre with the same force (otherwise Spectre's body would lean to Superman's side only)?
2) Superman has infinite strength so how a blue sun makes his strength higher? It makes it double infinity?
3) Since Superman has infinite strength why he goes sundip to increase his strength? To make it double infinity?
4) When Superman loses strength while he is away from the sun for long time, how low his strenth falls? Lower than infinity?

All I have to say is that Screwattack is full of B****S*** when they make calculations for a death battle. They did it with many death battles so far, like Rogue-Wonder Woman, Spiderman-Batman, Thor-Raiden, Kirby-Buu and more.

Here's how it goes: Superman's body is like a rechargeable battery that works with solar energy instead of electricity, and it uses that energy for strength, speed and durability. Much like the saiyans use KI to power up and speed-up, so does Superman use this energy to lift things, speed-up and tank explosions and attacks. The higher the weight he lifts/speed he gains/explosion he tanks the more solar energy he spends. But since he absorbs constantly energy from the suns he kinda never runs out of it, especially the closer he is to the sun the more faster he recharges.

The "Superman is limitless" thing means that Superman does not have a limit to the solar energy that he can absorb from the sun. It can rise and rise without stopping, and the more he has storred in his body the heavier things he can list/fastest he can run/strongest explosions or hits he can tank. But if somehow his opponent is able to make him spend this solar energy then he can beat him (much like Doomsday did). They should have examined instead if Goku is such a person or not rather than trying to figure out both characters' maximum potentials, because that is impossible; Superman can increase his stats by absorbing more and more sunlight, Saiyans can increase their KI even higher than their limit as long as their body can stand it (see Goku Kaioken 4 vs Vegeta) or up to the maximum output until they go kaboom (see Majin Vegeta vs Buu).

[Rocketman]

No matter how or what they analyze, Superman still wins. Even Chris Reeve's Superman would overpower Goku easily.

[rereboy]

Someone explain me these please:

1) Superman and Wonder Woman have infinite strength, since they both were lifting Spectre with the same force (otherwise Spectre's body would lean to Superman's side only)?
2) Superman has infinite strength so how a blue sun makes his strength higher? It makes it double infinity?
3) Since Superman has infinite strength why he goes sundip to increase his strength? To make it double infinity?
4) When Superman loses strength while he is away from the sun for long time, how low his strenth falls? Lower than infinity?

The explanation is literally above you. Here:

And half of infinity still being infinity is just to demonstrate how impossible and broken that feat is. It's literally beyond what makes sense. It was a situation designed to make him do the impossible, and that's what he did, because he is Superman. That was the whole point.

You think that it makes sense for Superman and Shazam to have trouble with human opponents with earth technology on Earth and then being able to lift infinite weight? Of course not, because it's not meant to actually make sense in real world terms. It's meant to illustrate how these characters, especially Superman (even though Shazam is just a kind of alternate Superman), can do literally the impossible. How, really, that there's no actual limit for what they can do. And this hasn't happened just once, so it's not a fluke.

You are just trying to ignore stuff like this by trying to rationalize it while missing the point. Deathbattle actually understood the point.

Personally, I don't really like stuff like what happens in Superman comics in those situations, but that doesn't mean that I ignore or don't understand their objective.

[ATEMVEGETA]

Someone explain me these please:

1) Superman and Wonder Woman have infinite strength, since they both were lifting Spectre with the same force (otherwise Spectre's body would lean to Superman's side only)?
2) Superman has infinite strength so how a blue sun makes his strength higher? It makes it double infinity?
3) Since Superman has infinite strength why he goes sundip to increase his strength? To make it double infinity?
4) When Superman loses strength while he is away from the sun for long time, how low his strenth falls? Lower than infinity?

The explanation is literally above you. Here:

And half of infinity still being infinity is just to demonstrate how impossible and broken that feat is. It's literally beyond what makes sense. It was a situation designed to make him do the impossible, and that's what he did, because he is Superman. That was the whole point.

You think that it makes sense for Superman and Shazam to have trouble with human opponents with earth technology on Earth and then being able to lift infinite weight? Of course not, because it's not meant to actually make sense in real world terms. It's meant to illustrate how these characters, especially Superman (even though Shazam is just a kind of alternate Superman), can do literally the impossible. How, really, that there's no actual limit for what they can do. And this hasn't happened just once, so it's not a fluke.

You are just trying to ignore stuff like this by trying to rationalize it while missing the point. Deathbattle actually understood the point.

Personally, I don't really like stuff like what happens in Superman comics in those situations, but that doesn't mean that I ignore or don't understand their objective.

Really? So when something "impossible" or "beyond of what makes sense" happens to Superman comics the take it into count seriously and whatever "weird" or "too much" happens in DB is considered "heavily abused"? If you remember this is what they said in the first Goku-Superman's Death Battle. Why didn't they take the infinite-page book as "abuse" too then since it doesn't make sense and they took it into count?

They should have taken the characters as they are supposed to be!!!! Superman shouldn't have been considered to have infinite strength by default.

[Mewzard]

Superman doesn't have to be considered infinite strength to beat Goku. Goku's never shown the strength, speed, or endurance that Superman has, it's just that simple.

[rereboy]

Really? So when something "impossible" or "beyond of what makes sense" happens to Superman comics the take it into count seriously and whatever "weird" or "too much" happens in DB is considered "heavily abused"? If you remember this is what they said in the first Goku-Superman's Death Battle. Why didn't they take the infinite-page book as "abuse" too then since it doesn't make sense and they took it into count?

They should have taken the characters as they are supposed to be!!!! Superman shouldn't have been considered to have infinite strength by default.

Because those were real feats meant to be taken seriously and the whole point of them was to show exactly and specifically how impossible they were to make exactly the point I and Deathbattle described. It's not just some inconsistency or gag humor. The same cannot be said regarding Dragon Ball or Goku.

And these were all post-crisis feats. Meaning that Deathbattle already ignored the periods of time where Superman was even more ridiculous and it even ignored the versions of Superman which are way beyond his more mainstream portrayals.

Superman doesn't have to be considered infinite strength to beat Goku. Goku's never shown the strength, speed, or endurance that Superman has, it's just that simple.

That's true. That was pretty much the route they took with the first deathbattle. With this one, they obviously wanted to show that, not only is that true, but also, unless Goku becomes broken like Superman is, he will never match him.

[ATEMVEGETA]

And DBZ's feats weren't "real"?

Can you show me where Superman was more powerful than that?