rereboy wrote:White Oni wrote:
Baseless assumption?
During his race with the flash, and on other occasions, he outright says that traveling on earth is unfair to him, because he move as fast.
That's called inconsistency. Superman's abilities are filled with them due to the difference of writers, the sheer number of years Superman has existed, the reboots, and the fact that Superman has always been a character that is as strong and as fast as the writers wanted him to be. You are just taking a low-end example from a comic to argue that the high-end examples are irrelevant or to try to rationalize them. Deathbattle didn't focus on any particular version of Superman, moment in time or example. They looked at the big picture, at the potential of his abilities as they are, overall, portrayed, and, since he's pretty much shown to not really have limits when they don't want him to, that's the overall conclusion.
You can focus on a particular version of Superman as written by a particular writer, on a particular moment in time, and I'm sure there's lots of Supermans that Goku could beat, but that's just cheery picking, not looking at the big picture of the character.
Never read that comic, can I get a link to the feat so I can factor it in?
I have no link because it was a long time ago and it's just an example, there's no point in focusing in just one example.
"Doesn't make sense"
Nothing about superman makes scientific sense, you aren't allowed to turn your brain off when he does something amazing and suddenly become a stubborn scientist when something lame about him is being brought up.
For goodness sakes, you just said "he traveled to pre historic times by going really fast." LOL
Precisely because it doesn't make sense is why there's really no sense in arguing that he would be millions of times slower. In a particular comic, in a particular moment in time, if the writers wanted it to happen, maybe that could happen, but the opposite could just as easily happen. You are arguing that it would definitely happen...
Polyphase Avatron had it right.
There are different ways to even begin approaching this issue and I'm afraid that's the issue here.
Seems that you're under the impression that Superman can do anything you could imagine a writer wanting him to do in a fight. That means he's literally omnipotent and the prospect of him being defeated, by anyone, not just goku, is absurd...
You cherry pick examples of him doing amazing things, and yet, don't accept the same downfalls or less feats of the superman who did that one amazing feat, you simpy carry over that amazing thing to the next superman and continue until you have one ultimate character who's some sort of badly written collage of all the best things the many versions of supes has done, and none of the bad.
I get it... I'm doing something similar.
Well, my lazy writting probably appears that way at least.
In my own mind though I'm trying to imagine the following: Here's MY starting approach/philosophy about this discussion.
I'm trying to imagine this actually being done in real life. In other words, a real bonified comic constructed by someone who's a fan of both works and a writer of neither.
I do not believe that people would simply accept an actual comic where superman does all the absurdly amazing things he's done over the many iterations he's had. people are usaully fine reading these things ONCE in a great while, because they're PIS... But imagine an actual comic where superman faces doomsday and doomsday doesn't stand a ghost of a chance, because superman instantaneously breaks reality with his speed and obliterates him into bio soup...
I think we'd all agree that something was amiss, BECAUSE, none of us actually believe superman has it in him to do something stupid like that. Does superman simply mess around with the lives of humans and the safety of his friends 99.99% of the time? When he could easily be destroying every single imaginable threat in an unbelievably short amount of time? Or are these events PIS and outliers that are CONDITIONAL to certain events.
Basically, what the average reader and EVEN THE WRITERS accept as fact, when it comes to superman and a lot of other comics is the following "Doing it once =/= Always being able to do it."
I have to concede though, if we're stripping superman of EVERYTHING that makes him the character anyone of us has come to know. And we simply imagine him as a super blood thirsty character with none of his prior iterations' flaws and ALL of their PIS powers, we have someone who Goku can't stand a chance against.
I've ALWAYS believed that certain iterations of superman win against Goku: Thought robot supes and Superman Prime come to mind. Even some sun dipped regular supes. But that's not what I'm concerned with. Goku wins against MOST supermen IMHO and the ones he loses to are strange, unpopular (in comparison) versions who people can't really identify as superman... and really can't be beaten by anyone with power short of omnipotence.
The one character that does break away from this is the super popular silver age superman, but again, omnipotence.