Death Battle: Goku vs Superman 2

[miguelnuva1]

Why do you assume he wouldn't survive the heat of the explosion?

Semi perfect Cell's explosion, Goku couldn't stand to be lava, 16's bomb was implied to kill him.

[godku23]

As far as 16's bomb, we don't really know how powerful it was, other than it was enough to kill Gero's prediction of Goku post Saiyan saga.
EDIT: and 16 thought it would kill Perfect Cell.

[pacz360]

Hasn't the fandom argues for years Freeza was more durable physicallythan Goku. If 16's b9mb, semi cell's explosion, Buu's attack and even lava cannhurt Goku then the heat of the planet wiuld kill him.

Your argument is that Freeza is so much more durable physically than Goku that Freeza, with half his body missing and practically no Ki left, can tank what Goku, at full power and health, can't? If that was the case, Freeza would never lose to Goku.

My argument is that Goku couldn't survive the heat of the explosion, also Freeza with no ki> Goku no ki. Goku's ki allows him to beat Freeza unless you think Goku can be chopped in half and survive an explosion.

Yeah no whether or not he can survived being cut in half is another story but surving a planet explosion is something he can do the only screw him over is the vacuum of space and in the android he was able to block trunks attacks who with his sword amped sliced freeza like mince meat who survived namek explosion while heavily injured with his finger meaning he's more durable than freeza.

[Polyphase Avatron]

One could say that both Goku and Superman are no more or less tough than the plot demands they be.

Really? What outliers can you think of off the top of your head for Goku? I can think of more than 10 for superman and that's with a pretty limited knowledge of the character.

The only PIS power I can think of for goku is his mind reading ability...

How about the very thing people have been arguing about here for the last few pages (Sorbet's laser)?

[Bullza]

Semi perfect Cell's explosion, Goku couldn't stand to be lava, 16's bomb was implied to kill him.

The lava scene was just filler and 16's bomb and Semi Perfect Cell's explosion could have been more powerful than Nameks explosion. 16 after seeing what Cell was capable of still had the confidence to believe his bomb could kill Perfect Cell.

[White Oni]

One could say that both Goku and Superman are no more or less tough than the plot demands they be.

Really? What outliers can you think of off the top of your head for Goku? I can think of more than 10 for superman and that's with a pretty limited knowledge of the character.

The only PIS power I can think of for goku is his mind reading ability...

How about the very thing people have been arguing about here for the last few pages (Sorbet's laser)?

Ugh, do we know how powerful that lazer was? Because from what I know it's completely ambiguous...

If there's no other feats for the lazer how does it contradict anything established???

[voltlunok]

How about the very thing people have been arguing about here for the last few pages (Sorbet's laser)?

Ugh, do we know how powerful that lazer was? Because from what I know it's completely ambiguous...

If there's no other feats for the lazer how does it contradict anything established???

Sorbet's ring laser was powerful enough to not only pierce SSGSS Goku's body and heart but also knock him out of his transformation. That alone is a feat. Off guard or not, that's still impressive to think that little ring can nearly kill a SSGSS.

[White Oni]

How about the very thing people have been arguing about here for the last few pages (Sorbet's laser)?

Ugh, do we know how powerful that lazer was? Because from what I know it's completely ambiguous...

If there's no other feats for the lazer how does it contradict anything established???

Sorbet's ring laser was powerful enough to not only pierce SSGSS Goku's body and heart but also knock him out of his transformation. That alone is a feat. Off guard or not, that's still impressive to think that little ring can nearly kill a SSGSS.

You're not grasping what I'm saying.

The ring has the feat of beating Goku but no other feat to compare that feat to. What that means is that we can't assume that goku has weak durability, we must assume that the ring has absurd power... Or assume nothing at all... But just assuming that the ring MUST be weak enough to make its feat against goku shocking is obviously irrational and only adopted by those who wish to try and mock goku or scandalize his durability...

[Polyphase Avatron]

The fact that so many people have been arguing so much about it tells me it's a bone of contention. Hence my comment about plot.

[rereboy]

Why do you assume he wouldn't survive the heat of the explosion?

Semi perfect Cell's explosion, Goku couldn't stand to be lava, 16's bomb was implied to kill him.

1- Semi perfect's explosion was way more powerful than a planet exploding. First form Freeza would be able to explode the Earth easily and even saiyan arc Vegeta is implied to be able to do it with his best attack. Semi perfect is WAY stronger than that.

2- Filler. Goku's recation to lava was never shown on the manga.

3- Same thing as Semi perfect Cell, and the bomb was also implied to kill Perfect Cell who had Freeza's cells and therefore his resistances. The only difference is that, just like most late Dragon Ball attacks, the effects of the explosion would be contained to not destroy the planet but would sill be way more powerful than Saiyan saga and Namek attacks that could destroy the planet.

My argument is that Goku couldn't survive the heat of the explosion, also Freeza with no ki> Goku no ki. Goku's ki allows him to beat Freeza unless you think Goku can be chopped in half and survive an explosion.

Couldn't survive the heat of the explosion purely based on filler?

And what does it matter if Freeza with no Ki is more resistant than Goku with no Ki or if Goku can't survive with half his body? What is being argued is whether Goku could tank planetary level explosions at ordinary conditions, not if he could do it with half his body missing and no Ki. Like I asked, are you trying to argue that Freeza's physical resistance with no Ki is better than Goku's defense in normal conditions? Obviously, being biologically different from Freeza, Goku wouldn't be able to survive with half his body missing, just like he would need oxygen, which doesn't mean that Freeza physical defense is so much greater than Goku. Like I said, if Freeza's defense was so much greater than even in those conditions it was better than Goku, considering that Goku wasn't that much stronger than Freeza, and Freeza had close to the same amount of Ki in normal conditions, Goku would never win. Freeza's defense in normal conditions would be absurd and Goku, not being much stronger than him, would never harm him.

[supermatt6534]

Screw Attack should not be taken seriously.I hope it's ok to post a link to my post as I do not feel like copying & pasting it.
http://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php ... &ref=57422

[rereboy]

Screw Attack should not be taken seriously.I hope it's ok to post a link to my post as I do not feel like copying & pasting it.
http://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php ... &ref=57422

Screwattack's battles were more logical and reasonable regarding the issue than what you posted, so...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So, I saw these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5czwMg8ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqkbCCMJr4M

Is there anything wrong with them?

[supermatt6534]

Screw Attack should not be taken seriously.I hope it's ok to post a link to my post as I do not feel like copying & pasting it.
http://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php ... &ref=57422

Screwattack's battles were more logical and reasonable regarding the issue than what you posted, so...

Not even close,they used out of context feats & flat out ignored that the comics point out that travel speed =/= combat speed,yet they treated it as the same anyway.My post debunks Screw Attack,like it or not.

[supermatt6534]

So, I saw these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5czwMg8ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqkbCCMJr4M

Is there anything wrong with them?

I don't think so,maybe a few minor things with Demomanchaos,but they tend to know what they're talking about.

[miguelnuva1]

Why do you assume he wouldn't survive the heat of the explosion?

Semi perfect Cell's explosion, Goku couldn't stand to be lava, 16's bomb was implied to kill him.

1- Semi perfect's explosion was way more powerful than a planet exploding. First form Freeza would be able to explode the Earth easily and even saiyan arc Vegeta is implied to be able to do it with his best attack. Semi perfect is WAY stronger than that.

2- Filler. Goku's recation to lava was never shown on the manga.

3- Same thing as Semi perfect Cell, and the bomb was also implied to kill Perfect Cell who had Freeza's cells and therefore his resistances. The only difference is that, just like most late Dragon Ball attacks, the effects of the explosion would be contained to not destroy the planet but would sill be way more powerful than Saiyan saga and Namek attacks that could destroy the planet.

My argument is that Goku couldn't survive the heat of the explosion, also Freeza with no ki> Goku no ki. Goku's ki allows him to beat Freeza unless you think Goku can be chopped in half and survive an explosion.

Couldn't survive the heat of the explosion purely based on filler?

And what does it matter if Freeza with no Ki is more resistant than Goku with no Ki or if Goku can't survive with half his body? What is being argued is whether Goku could tank planetary level explosions at ordinary conditions, not if he could do it with half his body missing and no Ki. Like I asked, are you trying to argue that Freeza's physical resistance with no Ki is better than Goku's defense in normal conditions? Obviously, being biologically different from Freeza, Goku wouldn't be able to survive with half his body missing, just like he would need oxygen, which doesn't mean that Freeza physical defense is so much greater than Goku. Like I said, if Freeza's defense was so much greater than even in those conditions it was better than Goku, considering that Goku wasn't that much stronger than Freeza, and Freeza had close to the same amount of Ki in normal conditions, Goku would never win. Freeza's defense in normal conditions would be absurd and Goku, not being much stronger than him, would never harm him.

Spoiler:

Then what about SSGSS Vegeta in Fnf, the planet explosion killed him and we didn't see his suffocate did we?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Spoiler:

Then what about SSGSS Vegeta in Fnf, the planet explosion killed him and we didn't see his suffocate did we?

Spoiler:

It is implied that it wasn't the explosion that killed him, but the fact that Saiyans can't survive in the vaccum of space, since Freeza survived, and he he was weaker than him.

[miguelnuva1]

Spoiler:

Then what about SSGSS Vegeta in Fnf, the planet explosion killed him and we didn't see his suffocate did we?

Spoiler:

It is implied that it wasn't the explosion that killed him, but the fact that Saiyans can't survive in the vaccum of space, since Freeza survived, and he he was weaker than him.

Spoiler:

I will agree with that but if it wasn't the explosion we should have seen evidence of Vegeta's body either suffocating or freezing.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Spoiler:

I will agree with that but if it wasn't the explosion we should have seen evidence of Vegeta's body either suffocating or freezing.

Spoiler:

Showing Vegeta dying like that sounds too dark for Toriyama's current tastes. And it's not like we need to see it, we know for a fact that Saiyans can't survive in the vaccum of space, so Vegeta shouldn't be alive. And since Freeza survived the explosion, so should Vegeta, especially when the manga implied that SS Goku would have survived the explosion of Namek, but not the vaccum of space.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Spoiler:

You'd figure he could hold his breath for at least 3 minutes... but then again maybe he was taken by surprised and didn't get a chance to breathe in first