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Why? The Freeza arc shows us that a difference of 1.5x or more means that the weaker fighter can't see the stronger fighter's movements.Rocketman wrote:Maybe not, but we can ignore Krillin and Roshi doing all those moves in like a second and a half.
Rocketman wrote:Where you born unable to understand jokes or is this the result of years of hard training?
That doesn't dispel the absurdity of them being able to do all that in one mere second, especially at that point in the series. Gag logic is gag logic.CatouttaHell wrote:Why? The Freeza arc shows us that a difference of 1.5x or more means that the weaker fighter can't see the stronger fighter's movements.Rocketman wrote:Maybe not, but we can ignore Krillin and Roshi doing all those moves in like a second and a half.
Muten Roshi and Kuririn were definitely much, much more than 1.5x stronger than all of the normal Earthlings watching the fight.
They were moving faster than the conduction velocity of nerves. Just as a rough tidbit, it takes about a tenth of a second for signals to travel from your brain to your legs...to say nothing of the time needed for that signal to actually be processed by the muscle cells, for them to begin contracting and tug on the bones, etc, etc.CatouttaHell wrote:Why? The Freeza arc shows us that a difference of 1.5x or more means that the weaker fighter can't see the stronger fighter's movements.
Muten Roshi and Kuririn were definitely much, much more than 1.5x stronger than all of the normal Earthlings watching the fight.
No offence man but real life logic doesn't work in Dragon Ball. I'd be surprised if Toriyama knew this information.Rocketman wrote:They were moving faster than the conduction velocity of nerves. Just as a rough tidbit, it takes about a tenth of a second for signals to travel from your brain to your legs...to say nothing of the time needed for that signal to actually be processed by the muscle cells, for them to begin contracting and tug on the bones, etc, etc.
Rocketman wrote:Where you born unable to understand jokes or is this the result of years of hard training?
Buu is literally magic and the other two have ki which might as well be.CatouttaHell wrote:No offence man but real life logic doesn't work in Dragon Ball. I'd be surprised if Toriyama knew this information.
Freeza, Cell, and Boo being able to live in space makes no sense scientifically since there's no air out there but yet those are manga facts. As is Cell being able to bust star systems.
Feats are incredibly inconsistent in Dragon Ball.Rocketman wrote:Buu is literally magic and the other two have ki which might as well be.
Thing is, nobody ever moves that fast again (excepting the out-and-out teleporters).
I'm the biggest guidebook supporter around and even I must admit the official DB BPs are bullshit.p123 wrote:Hey guys, I think I've almost gotten DragonBall figured out. Does the official levels for early DB, trump power statements? I would think not right? I mean, Piccolo Daimaio's less than half power, Goku getting several times stronger from Karin Training, and other things like that, would essentially prove that the official battle powers for early DB are factually wrong right?
Rocketman wrote:Where you born unable to understand jokes or is this the result of years of hard training?
Nope! That is in fact the most solid of all numbers.CatouttaHell wrote:Chichi being at 137...clearly factually wrong.
Rocketman wrote:Where you born unable to understand jokes or is this the result of years of hard training?
Is it? Or are you raising their base powers too high?Vice wrote:What's funny is that I used to be in the camp that believed the Super Saiyan multipliers never lessened but man, a 50x Super Saiyan multiplier in the Buu Saga is just impossible.
Yeah, I've also been on the other side of the Piccolo/base Saiyans debate and I've come to the conclusion that no matter how illogical it is or how much I'd hate to see it, the manga provides us many hints and references that places Piccolo below the base Saiyans and, since I'm just some fan, I can't put my own bias over what's presented in the manga.Rocketman wrote:Is it? Or are you raising their base powers too high?
No it isn't. Many people, including myself, have managed to make all of the Base Saiya-jins implications work with a 50x boost.Vice wrote:a 50x Super Saiyan multiplier in the Buu Saga is just impossible.
Rocketman wrote:Where you born unable to understand jokes or is this the result of years of hard training?
That's fine, because there was a time where I made the boost work as well. However, this boost makes everyone above base Gotenks absurdly strong. The problem I had working on a list is how Super Buu gets so much stronger in comparison to Fat Buu. I really had no answer.CatouttaHell wrote:No it isn't. Many people, including myself, have managed to make all of the Base Saiya-jins implications work with a 50x boost.
Let's be honest here, we're talking about a guy who's long since forgotten the majority of the characters he's created. And while I by no means am implying that I know more than the author of the series, I'm just saying that taking quotes and events as he was writing the story at face value as opposed to his thoughts well after the point where he stopped caring seems more beneficial to me.Nothing implies that the boost got smaller and Toriyama himself said the boost is 50x.
Of course not, but that's not the only problem. The problem is Super Buu and where all of this extra power he'd have to have with a 50x multiplier comes from.A smaller SSjin boost is a silly fan theory that people made up to nerf the Saiya-jins. Nothing in the manga implies the Boo arc Super Saiya-jins can't be over 50x stronger than Piccolo.
Agreed. Which is why I have them all stronger than him at the Cell Games.The Cell arc is full of gargantuan gaps that allow for all five Boo arc Base Saiya-jins to surpass Piccolo by a large margin.
This again makes Super Buu absurdly powerful in comparison to his original counterpart.Base Gotenks (Post) >>> SSjin Gotenks (Piccolo's Estimations) >>> SSjin Gotenks (Pre) >>> Base Gotenks (Pre) >>> SSjin 2 Vegeta
You have NO idea how over-traveled this road already is, dude.Rocketman wrote:If Piccolo is weaker even than base Trunks, how come he can stand at all against the Cell Jrs, who only (U)SS Vegeta could fight 'evenly'.
Yeah, they were goofing around, but the humans got trashed completely, while Piccolo didn't.
Trust me, I've debated this stuff to Hell and back on MFG and I've even used that argument several times, but I'm just to the point of accepting strong manga evidence over my own personal opinion. Piccolo is my favorite character and I hate what the Buu Arc did to him, but these are just some things I've learned to accept despite my fandom.Rocketman wrote:If Piccolo is weaker even than base Trunks, how come he can stand at all against the Cell Jrs, who only (U)SS Vegeta could fight 'evenly'.
Yeha, they were goofing around, but the humans got trashed completely, while Piccolo didn't.
