Dragonball Vs. Non Dragonball

[shonenhikada]

Red's Pikachu vs Kid Goku (21st budokai)

Who wins ?

[Ringworm128]

One of Red's Pokemon would finish 21st Budokai Goku off very easily. Pokemon are supposed to already be pretty powerful so imagine one that has been trained to a very high level. Ad the fact that the Pikachu is being commanded by Red the Kanto CHAMPION and you've got a one sided victory.

[Saiga]

Goku kills it with a flick of his wrist.

If a regular human with a sword can kill Pokemon (DPPt story) then Goku can easily kill them.

[Kiyza]

One idea that has been stuck in my head is General Zod (Superman series) vs Vegeta (Saiyan saga).

Isn't that pretty much just Goku Vs Superman but with the characters swapped out for other, similar ones? I'd say it would probably be best to let this one die...

First of all, Pikachu is a species, not an individual, so that'd be "a Pikachu." (Yeah, kinda nitpicky, but the whole "referring to entire species of Pokémon as if they were a single individual" thing is just one of those things that pisses me off.)

Second, most Pokémon have been repeatedly shown to be... really not very powerful at all. As in, weak enough that a strong/trained but still pretty much ordinary human can match even some of the toughest Pokémon (a lot of the Black Belt type trainers in the games talk about sparring with their Pokémon, and the Fighting-types tend to have some of the highest physical attack power of them all.)
And in case anyone tries to claim that's only possible because the Pokémon would be holding back in a friendly sparring type situation, that's not the only example of just how strong (or not) the upper-level Pokémon are compared to normal humans. In the Gold/Silver games, Lance's Dragonite hits a Team Rocket grunt with a freakin' Hyper Beam (the attack which is pretty much the definition of "not holding back") and the guy's still conscious afterward. Yes, he does get thrown backward into a wall by the attack and can't move afterward (it'd be pretty pathetic if one of the high-end Pokémon couldn't even manage that much), but he still not only survives but retains consciousness. The remakes made this guy into a Black Belt if I remember right, but that scene still has one of the strongest Pokémon (barring legendaries) being unable to kill a human even with one of the strongest attacks. And that's a Dragonite trained by the League Champion, not just some random wild one that doesn't even fight anything except to occasionally catch some small weak thing to eat, or keep from being eaten by a rampaging Gyarados, or something.

I see no reason to believe that a Pikachu's weak-ass electrical attacks that can't even kill an ordinary human could just magically happen to stop Goku's heart, especially considering that he has been hit by an electrical attack before (used by Master Roshi, I think it was the Bankoku Bikkuri-Shou or something like that... I don't see it mentioned often so I might have the name mixed up a bit) and that didn't do anything like that.

I also don't see any reason to assume that Dragonball characters magically have no resistance whatsoever to any form of attack other than physical blows and "plain energy blast" just because hardly anyone in the series uses any other type of attack. Nobody panics when they see Dabura using fire; it's Dabura's use of magic in general (not specifically fire-based magic) that makes him "a little more trouble than expected," but it's still not enough that Gohan can't put up a fight or that Goku and Vegeta can't sit back and watch like Gohan's still not really in too much danger. If the Z-Warriors had this weird and inexplicable lack of any resistance to anything besides normal ki blasts, I'd think someone would've mentioned that when Dabura started breathing fire and launching exploding magic fireballs around, rather than Goku's "oh hey, he uses magic too, that might make him a little tougher than I thought" (which neither Vegeta or the East Kaioshin says anything much in addition to. You'd think "hey, watch out, that fire's going to hurt you a lot more than regular ki blasts" would be something the constantly-worried-that-the-Saiyans-won't-be-able-to-handle-things Kaioshin would think to mention if it was true.)

Insofar as Pokemon is concerned, I think you are making a few mistakes with your logic here. In particular, you seem to be going primarily by the anime as opposed to the games and lower showings. If you take some of the stuff from the Pokedexes from the different games, it's pretty clear that no human being can compete with a Machamp since they can punch at 1,000 times per second. (Which I believe is around mach 1.5 according to some guy who does Pokemon science, but I haven't check the math.) It could also throw you clean over the horizon, so it's no chump.

Gyarados in the games are said to be able to destroy towns when they're really mad and Tyranitar can destroy a mountain quite easily. None of Dragonite's dex entries really say too much about strength other than the fact that it can circle the globe in 16 hours. While I can't say anything on Pikachu's behalf, I can tell you that a Raichu is capable of letting loose 100,000 volts of electricity, which could very easily kill a human being.

Simple explanation for the Hyper Beam? I'd wager the Dragonite was holding back big time. We know Pokemon are well capable of some impressive feats of strength and one or two instances where they don't kill a human (I mean, it's a game originally meant for children!) probably shouldn't be held against them if they can do more. It would be like saying that Goku's really weak because Chi Chi beats him up.

I'm not saying that a Pikachu can kill Goku, I'm just saying that you're underestimating what that Pikachu is capable of.

Note: If you want a citation for where I'm getting those feats of strength from, they're from the games' Pokedex entries, which you can easily find on sites like Bulbapedia.

[Bussani]

While I can't say anything on Pikachu's behalf, I can tell you that a Raichu is capable of letting loose 100,000 volts of electricity, which could very easily kill a human being.

Thunderbolt's Japanese name is １０まんボルト (juumanboruto), meaning "100,000 volts". Seems to be a reference to the Raichu entry, and Pikachu can also learn the attack. I don't know if that's conclusive of anything, but it's probably worth pointing out. And as I said, a human can be killed by a very low voltage if the conditions are right, so to say that a Pikachu absolutely couldn't kill a human would be like saying they have less electrical power than a standard smoke alarm.

[dprez]

Makes you think that a well trained Tyranitar could be impervious to Goku's punches. Tyranitar can destroy a mountain while Goku couldn't even move that massive boulder until after his Roshi training, which is the level of strength he is here.

I would have to strongly agree that Lance's Dragonite was holding back. Dragonites are known to be kind and intelligent, and the greatest Dragon master in the world is training one, he's gonna be super trained and loyal. Lance didn't want to kill that man, just punish him. The Hyper Beam was set to stun.

[Kiyza]

Makes you think that a well trained Tyranitar could be impervious to Goku's punches. Tyranitar can destroy a mountain while Goku couldn't even move that massive boulder until after his Roshi training, which is the level of strength he is here.

Nah, Goku's punches are Fighting-type moves. They deal x4 damage.

In all seriousness, at the beginning of the series or so, yeah, I think a Tyrannitar could potentially put up a good fight judging by that alone, but they're probably pretty slow when compared to Dragon Ball characters, which could prove a fatal flaw. But when you give it a Choice Scarf...

[Rocketman]

Speed kills. Very, very few things get the same combination of power and speed as Dragonball's characters.

I believe I've said before that Kratos could easily overpower Buu-era characters in pure strength, and his array of weapons and relics would counter their ki techniques...but he's just not fast enough to hit the bastards.


Although Kratos pulling out Medusa's head during the interminable staredown would be hilarious.

[Ringworm128]

Shinji Ikari vs pre Piccolo training Gohan in a wuss off.

[Blackstripe]

Shinji Ikari vs pre Piccolo training Gohan in a wuss off.

Shinji would have the advantage probably until Gohan became angry. Then Shinji would simply cease to be.

[Zephyr]

Master Chief vs Goku at the beginning of the manga?

[DBZAOTA482]

Master Chief vs Goku at the beginning of the manga?

GOku, he'll bend Chief's gun and use it against him.

[shonenhikada]

Goku vs Thor.

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku vs Thor.

Thor. He's a god.

[Gonstead]

Master Chief vs Goku at the beginning of the manga?

GOku, he'll bend Chief's gun and use it against him.

You do know that guns isn't only what the Chief has, right?

[shonenhikada]

Goku vs Thor.

Thor. He's a god.

Kami's a god to your point ?

[DBZAOTA482]

Master Chief vs Goku at the beginning of the manga?

GOku, he'll bend Chief's gun and use it against him.

You do know that guns isn't only what the Chief has, right?

Okay, Goku'll just beat him to a bloody pulp.

[Kiyza]

Goku vs Thor.

Thor. He's a god.

Kami's a god to your point ?

To back him up a bit here, Thor is a remarkably powerful character beyond his divine status, something I've learned pretty well from reading his comics over the past few months. (unless you're talking about the movie version of Thor, who would, by all accounts, lose horribly) He's excellent at deflecting and absorbing energy with Mjolnir, which would be quite useful in a fight with a Dragon Ball character, he's been known to lift snakes the size of planets, (albeit that was quite a long time ago and he's rarely portrayed as that powerful these days, but he's still quite strong physically) and can move and react at speeds faster than light. That's really just scratching the surface.

Personally, I'd wager Goku wouldn't last too terribly long.

[Hellspawn28]

Master Chief vs Goku at the beginning of the manga?

It depends on the weapons that Master Chief have. From what I can remember from the Halo games that spartan warriors had some pretty good strength feats. Also imagine that MC's beam sword could do some serious damage to early DB Goku. I think MC might have a chance. Not to mention that I remember that Goku's kamehameha was barely strong enough to destroy bulma's car, so his bubble shield could tank it.

[shonenhikada]

To back him up a bit here, Thor is a remarkably powerful character beyond his divine status, something I've learned pretty well from reading his comics over the past few months. (unless you're talking about the movie version of Thor, who would, by all accounts, lose horribly) He's excellent at deflecting and absorbing energy with Mjolnir, which would be quite useful in a fight with a Dragon Ball character, he's been known to lift snakes the size of planets, (albeit that was quite a long time ago and he's rarely portrayed as that powerful these days, but he's still quite strong physically) and can move and react at speeds faster than light. That's really just scratching the surface.

Personally, I'd wager Goku wouldn't last too terribly long.

If your talking about the beta ray bill fight that only happen once. IN Thor entire career showing as a character he's been more times thanot been portrayed to fight at way lower speeds than FTL. While its true thor has ,massively FTL travelling speed his combat speed showing from a lot of his fights, as well as his reflexes aren't nearly as epic. Also lifting strength doesn't transfer into striking strength, the flash and Karate kid can't lift more than 2 tons ye t both these guys have shown to damage superman level beings on more than one occasion. Flash for example can K.O. a white martian with superman leveldurability, and karate kid was shown to actually damage and cut off limbs from a guy with superman level durability during countdown to infinite crisis.

To even support thor's slower combat speed to travel speed their actually a thread dedicated to determine who is faster in combat between him, wolverine and spiderman.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t549032.html

Also how is it with gotenks feat everyone was going FTL is impossible, yet people are A OK when its a comic character ?