Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I have no idea how you'd make sense of it In Universe. That he can turn into a Yellow and Blue haired Super Saiyan in the anime really throws me.

He seemed to have absorbed the God power against Beerus and then still had it in his Base form by the time he fought Frieza over a year later. So now when he goes Super Saiyan he turns Blue because of it. So that's simple enough.

However the Universe 6 Tournament when he turned Super Saiyan he was Yellow. If a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan is Blue....then wouldn't a Saiyan without the power of Super Saiyan God just turn Yellow like he always did?

The anime now seems to point toward these regular Super Saiyan forms and the Base Goku who transforms into them as not being God level so that would make sense too.

But then what happened between the Resurrection F saga and Universe 6 saga that Goku now doesn't permanently have that power in his Base form at all times?

Simple really. On the RoSaT they learned how to control said god power.

People don't like having two bases but it's the only way the power scaling makes sense.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I have no idea how you'd make sense of it In Universe. That he can turn into a Yellow and Blue haired Super Saiyan in the anime really throws me.

He seemed to have absorbed the God power against Beerus and then still had it in his Base form by the time he fought Frieza over a year later. So now when he goes Super Saiyan he turns Blue because of it. So that's simple enough.

However the Universe 6 Tournament when he turned Super Saiyan he was Yellow. If a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan is Blue....then wouldn't a Saiyan without the power of Super Saiyan God just turn Yellow like he always did?

The anime now seems to point toward these regular Super Saiyan forms and the Base Goku who transforms into them as not being God level so that would make sense too.

But then what happened between the Resurrection F saga and Universe 6 saga that Goku now doesn't permanently have that power in his Base form at all times?

Simple really. On the RoSaT they learned how to control said god power.

People don't like having two bases but it's the only way the power scaling makes sense.

ZombieVito, can you elaborate on what you mean about learning to control their god power?

Bullza, I like that he can go SS 1-3 and SSB, but I think they should have come up with a better idea for god ki. To me it almost seems like a level of ki control that you reach.

[Bullza]

Simple really. On the RoSaT they learned how to control said god power.

People don't like having two bases but it's the only way the power scaling makes sense.

But where's the benefit of that kind of control? The Two Bases imply that he can turn on and off God power at will.

From the end of the Beerus fight through to when he was on the farm working and Krillin wanted to see how strong he was now and up until his fight with Final Form Frieza he would seemingly be at God level the whole time.

What does he have to gain by not being at that level permanently? Why turn it off at all?

I do agree that's it the only way the scaling can work but it's weird with the story.

[ZombieVito]

ZombieVito, can you elaborate on what you mean about learning to control their god power?

People forget that Goku and Vegeta only started to barely control their god ki a few hours before Freeza attacked Earth. After training for 8 months with Whis and then an additional 3 years on Earth, I believe they managed to control their god ki to the degree of being able to suppress it completely.

Doing this is why the regular Super Saiyan forms came back since by Goku's own words: "Super Saiyan Blue is the Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, turning Super Saiyan". God power/ki needs to be out of the equation completely for them to turn Yellow.

Saiyan beyond God is the only way. With that form, Kuririn's line in episode 24 about Goku "being as strong as he ever seen him" makes sense. He's stronger than the Super Saiyan God that battled Beerus in the Battle of Gods arc in base.

It was there all along.

But where's the benefit of that kind of control? The Two Bases imply that he can turn on and off God power at will.

From the end of the Beerus fight through to when he was on the farm working and Krillin wanted to see how strong he was now and up until his fight with Final Form Frieza he would seemingly be at God level the whole time.

What does he have to gain by not being at that level permanently? Why turn it off at all?

I do agree that's it the only way the scaling can work but it's weird with the story.

Maybe because the form is unnecessary or it's just a retcon/error that surprisingly gets fixed by a form introduced in Heroes.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AvatarReiko]

How strong would a hypothetical SSJ2/SSJ3 Blue GokU be? Would SSJ3+God ki be a bigger boost than, say, KKx10

[Helios518]

How strong would a hypothetical SSJ2/SSJ3 Blue GokU be? Would SSJ3+God ki be a bigger boost than, say, KKx10

SSJB3 should be 8x SSJB if it follows the power difference for SSJ & SSJ3 (if it doesn't follow that power difference, then it's impossible to say how strong SSJB3 would be) . So assuming it's the same Goku using both forms, then SSJBKKx10 is 1.25x stronger than SSJB3.

[Zamasu55]

Strongest character Toppo could defeat without using his full power, SSJIkari Trunks pre Genkidama mode?

Agree or disagree?

I think that SsjB Goku (current), SsjB Vegeta (current), SsjR Trunks and Toppo are all on the same level of strength.

[DBZ Macky]

Strongest character Toppo could defeat without using his full power, SSJIkari Trunks pre Genkidama mode?

Agree or disagree?

I think that SsjB Goku (current), SsjB Vegeta (current), SsjR Trunks and Toppo are all on the same level of strength.

Maybe I'm biased towards Goku but he had a very clear advantage. Though Toppo is durable enough to survive Goku's Instant Kamehameha, so I'll give him that.

[Lord Frieza]

Strongest character Toppo could defeat without using his full power, SSJIkari Trunks pre Genkidama mode?

Agree or disagree?

I think that SsjB Goku (current), SsjB Vegeta (current), SsjR Trunks and Toppo are all on the same level of strength.

Maybe I'm biased towards Goku but he had a very clear advantage. Though Toppo is durable enough to survive Goku's Instant Kamehameha, so I'll give him that.

I'd say there even with a slight edge to Goku. Toppo kept pace with SSB Goku quite well and didnt back down from SSBKK either. However if Goku pulls out the x10 Toppo's got not chance.

[DBZ Macky]

I think that SsjB Goku (current), SsjB Vegeta (current), SsjR Trunks and Toppo are all on the same level of strength.

Maybe I'm biased towards Goku but he had a very clear advantage. Though Toppo is durable enough to survive Goku's Instant Kamehameha, so I'll give him that.

I'd say there even with a slight edge to Goku. Toppo kept pace with SSB Goku quite well and didnt back down from SSBKK either. However if Goku pulls out the x10 Toppo's got not chance.

But then again, if you bar the higher levels of Kaio-Ken except the regular one, then Toppo might still have an advantage because of Kaio-Ken's stamina issues.
I don't think even Jiren of all people would hold a candle to a whopping Kaio-Ken x10, but we'll all have to wait and see.

[Lord Frieza]

Maybe I'm biased towards Goku but he had a very clear advantage. Though Toppo is durable enough to survive Goku's Instant Kamehameha, so I'll give him that.

I'd say there even with a slight edge to Goku. Toppo kept pace with SSB Goku quite well and didnt back down from SSBKK either. However if Goku pulls out the x10 Toppo's got not chance.

But then again, if you bar the higher levels of Kaio-Ken except the regular one, then Toppo might still have an advantage because of Kaio-Ken's stamina issues.
I don't think even Jiren of all people would hold a candle to a whopping Kaio-Ken x10, but we'll all have to wait and see.

Well you never know, Ginyu was the second strongest member of the Frieza Force with a power level 120,000 while Frieza maxed out at 120,000,000.

The difference between first and second place can get very big in the DB World.

[incarnati0n]

Wish you all good luck next week.

[Hugo Boss]

Strongest character Toppo could defeat without using his full power, SSJIkari Trunks pre Genkidama mode?

Agree or disagree?

So, going by what he showed against Goku?

I think he can survive a galickho from Trunks, but not defeating him. Perhaps he can beat the versions of Goku and Vegeta before the preparations for Black and Zamasu.

[TheMikado]

Wish you all good luck next week.

Yeah I came here looking for SSB vs Krillin posts

[ChiefWamsutta]

ZombieVito, can you elaborate on what you mean about learning to control their god power?

People forget that Goku and Vegeta only started to barely control their god ki a few hours before Freeza attacked Earth. After training for 8 months with Whis and then an additional 3 years on Earth, I believe they managed to control their god ki to the degree of being able to suppress it completely.

Doing this is why the regular Super Saiyan forms came back since by Goku's own words: "Super Saiyan Blue is the Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, turning Super Saiyan". God power/ki needs to be out of the equation completely for them to turn Yellow.

Saiyan beyond God is the only way. With that form, Kuririn's line in episode 24 about Goku "being as strong as he ever seen him" makes sense. He's stronger than the Super Saiyan God that battled Beerus in the Battle of Gods arc in base.

It was there all along.

So ... if I understand this correctly:

1) Goku has SSG.
2) Goku loses SSG and absorbs the power.
3) He hasn't trained the power yet, so his Base/SS1/SS2/SS3 are equal to SSG fighting Beerus.
4) He trains the power with Whis and makes his Base at SSG and his SS form to SSB.
5) He trains more with Vegeta to separate and access Base/SS1/SS2/SS3 and God Base/SSBlue.

The big issue, again, is that his Saiyan Beyond God form has no god ki, which is why we can argue it is just a regular Base form.

[pacz360]

Two base Theory doesn't make sense no matter how hard you push it considering that would be way to complicated for the writers here.

[precita]

Next week, and the tournament in general, is likely going to throw power levels out the window.

We'll see characters weaker than Super Saiyan someone go toe to toe with characters who have God-like or Super Saiyan Blue power. Holy crap I can see how many people will be pissed.

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

If Krillin can withstand Base Gohan, or worse SSB Goku, I will be so done

[Bullza]

Yeah I have no idea what to make of Krillin's power.

That imagination battle seemed as though it was a representation of what would actually happen and Krillin wasn't utterly stomped by someone we said was possibly Perfect Cell level.

Then in the preview he looks like he fights Gohan and Gohan sorta grimaced at one of his punches? He fights Goku too.

Was Basil much weaker than we thought? Krillin much stronger? Both?

Usually I've only ever seen people have Krillin's power level as being in the hundreds of thousands. Could he actually be in the millions? Even tens of millions? He's gotta be weaker than Frieza on Namek so is Basil around Frieza on Namek level?

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

Yeah I have no idea what to make of Krillin's power.

That imagination battle seemed as though it was a representation of what would actually happen and Krillin wasn't utterly stomped by someone we said was possibly Perfect Cell level.

Then in the preview he looks like he fights Gohan and Gohan sorta grimaced at one of his punches? He fights Goku too.

Was Basil much weaker than we thought? Krillin much stronger? Both?

Usually I've only ever seen people have Krillin's power level as being in the hundreds of thousands. Could he actually be in the millions? Even tens of millions? He's gotta be weaker than Frieza on Namek so is Basil around Frieza on Namek level?

If Kuririn powers up then there are some questions that need to be asked:
If Basil was that weak, then how weak is Buu and how could Basil even compete with him? By extension, how strong are Lavender and Gohan? That really would mess up the already completely messed up power scale