Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

My opinion on Gohan: his base kept some of the power from the ritual, his SSJ level is now as strong as SSJ2 against Perfect Cell and the rage boost next episode puts him to his Buu saga power. This puts Tagoma at Perfect Cell level: enough to own Piccolo, but be nothing for SSJ Gohan.

Gohan says Tagoma is hiding Ki that might be on par with him at his best. As crazy as this sounds this puts Ginyu at Super Buu tier or higher.

Herms already told you this, but by his "best" Gohan meant his current best, not his lifetime best. And the statement was proven wrong anyway.

I'm going off by Dragon Team (waiting for the update on the facts thread) subs. There's no mention of "current" best at all in there. There's also the fact that Ginyu calls Gohan disappointing and his power puny.

[xmysticgohanx]

He's probably referencing Beerus' statement about Base Goku being unable to take on Freeza (and Goku's answer to that being turning into a SSJ, rather than just powering up in base).

Go rewatch the scene, it's clear Beerus can't sense ki. Even if he could, feats > statements so the kids' fight with #18 and Gohan outperforming Piccolo disprove it.

[buutenks]

He's probably referencing Beerus' statement about Base Goku being unable to take on Freeza (and Goku's answer to that being turning into a SSJ, rather than just powering up in base).

Go rewatch the scene, it's clear Beerus can't sense ki. Even if he could, feats > statements so the kids' fight with #18 and Gohan outperforming Piccolo disprove it.

Not really.

I rewatched the manga pages where trunks and goten fight 18,it is a very short fight.18 remarks that even though hes got a strange body he's pretty strong.Makes sense its some random dude and can fight her even though she isnt serious enough to inflict big damage.Once they go ssj though and they fire the ki blast she gets scared and realizes who they r and how powerful they r.

If base saiyans would be above 18,trunks or goten would have koed her in one or 2 hits.ofc that never happened and she was totally undamaged by their hits.

Also base saiyans being below freeza doesnt meaa 18 is hundreds of times stronger than them,max id say shes proly 5x as strong perhaps 3x minnimum depending how u play with the PL.

Ofc once the saiyan goes ssj they r close to 10 times stronger than 18.

And gohan,nah gohan still has some of his unlocked power in his base,he just needs ssj to tap into the rest.

[fadeddreams5]

Excuse me if this has been discussed already, but just how strong is SSJ Gohan from Super's Frieza arc?

If Tagoma > Piccolo, we know that he's stronger than an untrained SSJ and Imperfect Cell. Base Gohan could not even make him flinch, but SSJ Gotenks very likely would have pulverized him. So, SSJ Gotenks > Tagoma > Base Gohan > Piccolo. Clearly, Gohan barely has a shred of his ultimate powers anymore, but his SSJ state is still able to take down Tagoma, so SSJ Gotenks >/= SSJ Gohan > Tagoma > Base Gohan > Piccolo.

In comparison to DBZ's SSJs, where does this leave this SSJ Gohan? He's clearly superior to any of the untrained SSJs from the android arcs, Imperfect Cell, and the androids. But is his power greater than FPSSJ/MSSJ Kid Gohan's? Modern Gohan clearly cannot tap into his SSJ2 powers and cannot maintain his SSJ state for long--in fact, he wasn't even sure he could still transform! On the other hand, Kid Gohan mastered the SSJ state and could live every single day of his life in it.

If we go back to the Buu saga, it's confirmed that Teen Gohan, prior to having his powers unlocked, was weaker than when he fought Cell. However, he could still ascend beyond a SSJ. It's also pretty much stated that his "ultimate" state is basically his dormant powers and beyond unlocked. If he can't access his full power in his base form, that essentially means his dormant abilities are once again locked/inaccessible (i.e. Ultimate Gohan is no more). However, could there still be reserves left, making SSJ Gohan a lot stronger than many people believe? Or is he really a poop compared to his child and even early Buu saga teen self?

[Doctor.]

Is it that hard to tell where Gohan is? At the same level he was before the ultimate state was unlocked. As a Super Saiyan in the Boo arc, he was already stronger than Piccolo and then he trained with the Z-Sword.

[fadeddreams5]

Is it that hard to tell where Gohan is? At the same level he was before the ultimate state was unlocked. As a Super Saiyan in the Boo arc, he was already stronger than Piccolo and then he trained with the Z-Sword.

Not even that Gohan was this rusty.

In the versus topic, a lot of people claimed he could beat MSSJ Kid Gohan, so I was curious where people put him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Is it that hard to tell where Gohan is? At the same level he was before the ultimate state was unlocked. As a Super Saiyan in the Boo arc, he was already stronger than Piccolo and then he trained with the Z-Sword.

But he is stronger than Piccolo in base now.

[Doctor.]

Not even that Gohan was this rusty.

In the versus topic, a lot of people claimed he could beat MSSJ Kid Gohan, so I was curious where people put him.

You can get rusty without getting weaker. Look at Kuririn, he's still the strongest human.

But he is stronger than Piccolo in base now.

There's nothing that can make one believe this. Tagoma defeated Gohan and Piccolo easily. Then Ginyu blocked all of Gohan's hits and defeated him until he turned Super Saiyan. Neither Piccolo nor Gohan did a good job against Tagoma/Ginyu.

[DragonHermit]

I agree with Draconic. Gohan SSJ now is about as strong as Teen Gohan SSJ2. Although, the SSJ2 form would be much faster.

Is it that hard to tell where Gohan is? At the same level he was before the ultimate state was unlocked. As a Super Saiyan in the Boo arc, he was already stronger than Piccolo and then he trained with the Z-Sword.

+1

[xmysticgohanx]

He's probably referencing Beerus' statement about Base Goku being unable to take on Freeza (and Goku's answer to that being turning into a SSJ, rather than just powering up in base).

Go rewatch the scene, it's clear Beerus can't sense ki. Even if he could, feats > statements so the kids' fight with #18 and Gohan outperforming Piccolo disprove it.

Not really.

I rewatched the manga pages where trunks and goten fight 18,it is a very short fight.18 remarks that even though hes got a strange body he's pretty strong.Makes sense its some random dude and can fight her even though she isnt serious enough to inflict big damage.Once they go ssj though and they fire the ki blast she gets scared and realizes who they r and how powerful they r.

If base saiyans would be above 18,trunks or goten would have koed her in one or 2 hits.ofc that never happened and she was totally undamaged by their hits.

Also base saiyans being below freeza doesnt meaa 18 is hundreds of times stronger than them,max id say shes proly 5x as strong perhaps 3x minnimum depending how u play with the PL.

Ofc once the saiyan goes ssj they r close to 10 times stronger than 18.

And gohan,nah gohan still has some of his unlocked power in his base,he just needs ssj to tap into the rest.

Her facial expressions show here having way, way, way more trouble than she did vs SSJ Vegeta. And how does base Saiyans > #18 mean they should one shot her?

[Helios518]

Her facial expressions show here having way, way, way more trouble than she did vs SSJ Vegeta. And how does base Saiyans > #18 mean they should one shot her?

Because when Goten and Trunks went SSJ as Mighty mask they should've one shot her. 18 was expecting only to fight regular humans in the tournament therefore didn't want to kill someone and was surprised that there's someone so strong for a human.

[buutenks]

Her facial expressions show here having way, way, way more trouble than she did vs SSJ Vegeta. And how does base Saiyans > #18 mean they should one shot her?

Nope,i just rechecked the manga,She shows no facial expression,not surprised or anything,just says what a freak,hes got a weird body but hes pretty strong.

She only gets surprised when they go ssj.

So its pretty clear she was holding back,since she didnt know who she was fighting.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm going off by Dragon Team (waiting for the update on the facts thread) subs. There's no mention of "current" best at all in there. There's also the fact that Ginyu calls Gohan disappointing and his power puny.

Herms outright said that the way you're interpreting the statement is incorrect. I'm not sure why he needs to say it again. Furthermore, in the newest episode Gohan says that he no longer has the power to defend everyone (in the context of fighting Freeza), which implies that Ultimate Gohan could at least kick 1st form Freeza's ass.

[Hugo Boss]

Since Goku didn't feel Freeza's ki even concentrating and then felt Gohan's ki, could it be that Gohan briefly surpassed Freeza in his frustration power-up?

[Doctor.]

Since Goku didn't feel Freeza's ki even concentrating and then felt Gohan's ki, could it be that Gohan briefly surpassed Freeza in his frustration power-up?

Goten and Trunks didn't feel Freeza's Ki either, only Tagoma's. It's more likely that Freeza is simply suppressed or, at least, not making his hostile intent clear.

[Pannaliciour]

Since Goku didn't feel Freeza's ki even concentrating and then felt Gohan's ki, could it be that Gohan briefly surpassed Freeza in his frustration power-up?

The episode that freeza was resurrected, Goku felt something. (That was the moment he and vegeta where cleaning the stairs at Beerus place)

[LightBing]

Since Goku didn't feel Freeza's ki even concentrating and then felt Gohan's ki, could it be that Gohan briefly surpassed Freeza in his frustration power-up?

Goten and Trunks didn't feel Freeza's Ki either, only Tagoma's. It's more likely that Freeza is simply suppressed or, at least, not making his hostile intent clear.

Yup, while torturing Gohan he was applying the torture method trained on Tagoma. At least that's how I perceive it. Not sure were to put First Form Freeza, Goku and Vegeta only seemed impressed by his True Form.

Since Goku didn't feel Freeza's ki even concentrating and then felt Gohan's ki, could it be that Gohan briefly surpassed Freeza in his frustration power-up?

The episode that freeza was resurrected, Goku felt something. (That was the moment he and vegeta where cleaning the stairs at Beerus place)

That was more like a premonition than actually Ki feeling.

[ZombieVito]

I'm going off by Dragon Team (waiting for the update on the facts thread) subs. There's no mention of "current" best at all in there. There's also the fact that Ginyu calls Gohan disappointing and his power puny.

Herms outright said that the way you're interpreting the statement is incorrect. I'm not sure why he needs to say it again. Furthermore, in the newest episode Gohan says that he no longer has the power to defend everyone (in the context of fighting Freeza), which implies that Ultimate Gohan could at least kick 1st form Freeza's ass.

I haven't seen that post. It doesn't make sense though, Gohan just ate a senzu there. There's also the fact that SSJ Gohan was felt on Beerus planet, which implies he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku at least.

Ugh this is messed up. SSJ Gohan > Ginyu = Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo? How the hell does that work with SSJ's multiplier?

[ekrolo2]

I'm going off by Dragon Team (waiting for the update on the facts thread) subs. There's no mention of "current" best at all in there. There's also the fact that Ginyu calls Gohan disappointing and his power puny.

Herms outright said that the way you're interpreting the statement is incorrect. I'm not sure why he needs to say it again. Furthermore, in the newest episode Gohan says that he no longer has the power to defend everyone (in the context of fighting Freeza), which implies that Ultimate Gohan could at least kick 1st form Freeza's ass.

I haven't seen that post. It doesn't make sense though, Gohan just ate a senzu there. There's also the fact that SSJ Gohan was felt on Beerus planet, which implies he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku at least.

Ugh this is messed up. SSJ Gohan > Ginyu = Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo? How the hell does that work with SSJ's multiplier?

Is Gohan above Tagoma?

[Doctor.]

I haven't seen that post. It doesn't make sense though, Gohan just ate a senzu there. There's also the fact that SSJ Gohan was felt on Beerus planet, which implies he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku at least.

Ugh this is messed up. SSJ Gohan > Ginyu = Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo? How the hell does that work with SSJ's multiplier?

How does that imply anything? Beerus' planet is in the universe, not in an alternate dimension.

You're making this up to be more complicated than it needs to be. SS Gohan > Ginyu > Tagoma > Piccolo > Base Gohan, what's so wrong about that? I repeat, both base Gohan and Piccolo had a shit performance against Tagoma/Ginyu, there's absolutely nothing that tells us that Gohan's stronger.