Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Skar]

I honestly still don't get why I've stuck with this fan manga for so long. Sure the art for the comic (specials not included) is good and I like the multiverse idea, but the plot seems so focused on U16 it feels like it's more fanboish than anything. I also hate how Salagir made some characters stupidly overpowered (I'm looking at you U16 Bra) to the point of being poorly done. Oh, and how they made Super Saiyan 3 even more impractical? Reeeeeeally hit a nerve. Also, is it true Salagir basically ignores the official guidebooks and such in favor of his own fanboy point of view? :/

What is there in the guidebooks to ignore? From my understanding the Daizenshuu series just documented information already available in the manga. They had some early Dragonball power levels which wouldn't have much relevance to a post-DBZ fan comic anyway. I could understand if someone wants to ignore new information given in the guidebooks because even here on Kanzenshuu they note that Toriyama had little to no involvement in them. I honestly doubt if Toriyama didn't say it in an interview that he actually went back and verified every page of the guidebook before release. The early Dragonball power levels were in the Daizenshuu 7 which was released shortly after the manga ended. If those power levels did come from Toriyama then there probably would've been an interview question posted in the Daizenshuu with Toriyama sharing them. For a guy who openly admits he has bad memory I think it would be more likely that he would share power levels from his most recent saga not jumping all the way back 10 years to the beginning of the story. The SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers were revealed in the SEG which was released 14 years after the manga ended. It seems unlikely Toriyama waited this long to share this information. Again they would have shared the interview where he mentioned these numbers if they came directly from him. They seem to contradict what we learn about SSJ in Battle of Gods and what Toriyama said about Goku would only train in base and SSJ from now on. So if the author himself doesn't seem to take the guidebooks seriously I don't see why fans need to for their fan comics .

Speaking of that, I really hate how he poked fun at people with his "Mary Sue" character. I mean yeah often times you'll find fan characters that are Mary Sues, but that doesn't give Salagir the right to poke fun at them when he's basically at fault for that too.

I just saw it as poking fun at the usual incredibly overpowered OCs that appear out of no where in most sequels. It doesn't imply that DBM is perfect or not guilty of it but at least the characters are given flaws and weaknesses to make them less overpowered and an explanation for where their power came from. As far as I'm aware I don't think any DBM characters fit the definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

-Zen Buu is just Buuhan who went on to absorb more people.

-Gast is Nail who fused with a hundred or so Nameks. The Nameless Namek + Nail was probably ASSJ to Cell Jr tier at his best so I could see Nail + ~100 Nameks having the potential to reach SSJ3 tier. He did use some type of magic technique to take down Zen Buu but since he's still in the tournament and probably the best magic user in the entire series I imagine Buu will find a way to counter that technique and break free.

-Bra is the daughter of a fusion Saiyan and has no control over her SSJ2 so she can't really use it effective without hurting innocent people. I agree she's too strong but she's far from perfect. She's put in her place every time she does something stupid.

-Vegetto is given more weaknesses than the canon Vegetto so that he'd be less perfect. He can't sustain SSJ3 for very long and has a much bigger appetite than a normal Saiyan so he needs more Senzu beans to replenish his energy.

-Broly was OP but his only purpose was to give Vegetto a good fight and have him show off his power to the other contestants. Once he served his purpose he was kicked out of the tournament. He wasn't even given a personality. He was a mindless berserker juggernaut that woke up, wreaked havoc, got beat up, and teleported home. He could've been replaced with a stronger version of Hirudegarn, Kid Buu, Janemba, or any other insane and uncontrollable character.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Really? Because if I recall correctly, the Z-gang didn't travel to space to fight Broly in the manga, and them doing so really contradicts what actually happened in those ten days. It also seems rather weird that no one mentioned the supposedly super strong and invulnerable Broly when Kaioshin showed up and talked about Buu and Dabra.

Broli happening contradicts absolutely nothing. We don't see what happens in those 10 days, and Cell is more relevant than Broli, because Dabra is closer to Cell in power, and Cell was stronger than Broli. This isn't a change, it's an addition.

Vegeta explicitly says a Saiyan gets 10x stronger as an Oozaru.

I know. Salagir takes that as a metaphor to say that it makes them much stronger rather than an actual multiplier. From what I recall, Salagir doesn't take it literally because it makes Oozaru Vegeta (at 180.000) stronger than the Ginyu Tokusentai.

[RandomGuy96]

Broli happening contradicts absolutely nothing. We don't see what happens in those 10 days, and Cell is more relevant than Broli, because Dabra is closer to Cell in power, and Cell was stronger than Broli. This isn't a change, it's an addition.

Yes, it does. We saw what they were up to during those ten days. They were relaxing. No one references any of this bullshit with Broly happening.

Same thing for the Buu arc. Someone would have at least mentioned Broly if he really existed.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes, it does. We saw what they were up to during those ten days. They were relaxing. No one references any of this bullshit with Broly happening.

No, we saw them the first days, and then fast-forward to the day of the Cell Games.

Same thing for the Buu arc. Someone would have at least mentioned Broly if he really existed.

No one mentioned any of the Artificial Humans but Cell.

[RandomGuy96]

No, we saw them the first days, and then fast-forward to the day of the Cell Games.

Yes, we saw them relaxing and then we got a fast-forward. But the way it was structured makes it very clear that nothing interesting happened in those ten days. If something HAD, someone would have said something about it, and the whole scene with Gohan stepping forward at the Cell Games would be radically different.

No one mentioned any of the Artificial Humans but Cell.

And? The androids aren't worthy of comparison to Dabra. Broly is.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes, we saw them relaxing and then we got a fast-forward. But the way it was structured makes it very clear that nothing interesting happened in those ten days. If something HAD, someone would have said something about it, and the whole scene with Gohan stepping forward at the Cell Games would be radically different.

By that logic, the DBM tournament never happened because the manga ended. The Broli incident wasn't mentioned because Toriyama obviously didn't have it in his mind. This doesn't mean that it can't happen at all. Toriyama was open about stories between the manga time-skips in the past, and he is even doing them right now with the JSAT, BoG, and FnF.

And? The androids aren't worthy of comparison to Dabra. Broly is.

Was he? Broli was most likely weaker than SP Cell, who was as strong as Dabra. How does that make him relevant?

[RandomGuy96]

By that logic, the DBM tournament never happened because the manga ended

No, it's a different case, because we never saw what happened after the manga's ending, and it hinted at further adventures. On the other hand, we know what happened after the next few days, and the scenes clearly left us with the implication that the next few days weren't eventful.

The Broli incident wasn't mentioned because Toriyama obviously didn't have it in his mind.

Yes, because it didn't happen in the manga's continuity. Just Salagir's fan fiction continuity.

This doesn't mean that it can't happen at all. Toriyama was open about stories between the manga time-skips in the past, and he is even doing them right now with the JSAT, BoG, and FnF.

None of which claim to be in-continuity with the original manga. Also, this is a bad comparison. These are just minor events without any further effects, while Broly's arrival would cause everyone to act differently at the beginning of the Majin Buu arc.

Was he? Broli was most likely weaker than SP Cell, who was as strong as Dabra. How does that make him relevant?

Because he's stronger than everyone was at the Cell Games except Cell?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes, because it didn't happen in the manga's continuity. Just Salagir's fan fiction continuity.

... You realize that DBM is fan fiction?

Because he's stronger than everyone was at the Cell Games except Cell?

And? Cell is still more relevant than Broli. There is no reason for him to be mentioned. In the 1st Special, Broli was weaker than Dabra. In the 2nd Special, Broli was stronger than Dabra (Goku used SS3). But Cell is the one on Dabra's level, and Cell is the one that Gohan defeated in on his own in the past. Broli has nothing to do with it.

[RandomGuy96]

... You realize that DBM is fan fiction?

Yes. But U18 was SUPPOSED to be the unaltered manga continuity, to clash with the actual fan fiction universes. Which isn't the case.

And? Cell is still more relevant than Broli. There is no reason for him to be mentioned. In the 1st Special, Broli was weaker than Dabra. In the 2nd Special, Broli was stronger than Dabra (Goku used SS3). But Cell is the one on Dabra's level, and Cell is the one that Gohan defeated in on his own in the past. Broli has nothing to do with it.

Broly has a lot to do with it. Goku was trying to underline Dabra's irrelevance. He would have said "yeah, we defeated two guys around his level", rather than just mentioning Cell.

[Kaboom]

Never mind what the heroes were or weren't doing during those 10 days before the Cell Games. The kicker is what the rest of the Earth's population was doing, which was... nothing. Unless you count hiding and panicking.

All of society was just plain shut down because thanks to Cell's broadcast, they expected they could die in 10 days. Goku's family were the only ones relaxing, while the rest of the Z-fighters were training, and the rest of the population was huddled up in shelters and in their homes praying to nobody and then Dende that Cell wouldn't kill them. Nobody was doing things like going to cherry blossom viewing picnics, or lining up to have parent interviews at private schools.

So no, the events of Movie 8 can't have happened during the actual 10 days before the Cell Games as they happened in the main story. Daizenshuu #6 placing it there can only be referring to the general time period when it otherwise would have been set if things were different.

[BlazingBarrrager]

The joke with the Mary Sue character was basically both offensive and poorly done. Whether he intended to or not, Salagir basically poked fun at a lot of fan fic writers for creating original characters that end up Mary Sues (either by accident or intentionally) DESPITE the fact he's guilty of this as well. In fact, the character is a double joke in that she was also incredibly weak to the point where she was one shotted by Areia of all people while a great deal of fan characters (especially in the DB universe) are often overpowered. Now this is basically my opinion because, as a hobbyist writer looking to make a career in creative writing, I find this concept alone to be a way for Salagir to say "you suck" to other writers, especially beginners.

Like I said, you are just assuming his intentions. For all you know, he was just acknowledging that Mary Sues tend to appear in fan fictions, perhaps even in his own work, and he used that idea to have some humor in the tournament.

If there's any message, it could be simply that authors should try to not fall into the trap of letting characters be too much like Mary Sues. Does that mean that he believes that he is completely immune to it? That he is the best author regarding Mary Sue prevention? That no character of his could possibly be a Mary Sue? I fail to see how, unless you just assume that his intentions are the absolute worst. It might not even have been a message at all.

As a hobbyist writer looking to make a career in creative writing, you should appreciate the value of readers who actually consider possibilities and different interpretations of what an author does instead of just assuming the worst about his intentions.

You have made your point. I apologize for causing such a ruckus.

[Skar]

I don't really see the problem with including Broly and other movie characters in U18. Under U18 on the turnwheel it reads "This is U18 with our changes, how we integrated the films, etc." so it already acknowledges it's not 100% identical to the manga. Broly, Cooler, Tapion, etc don't exist in the manga and their movies never happened. U18 is a universe based on the manga so it includes everything that took place in the manga with some non-canon events in between. When Salagir says "our DBZ" it just means that U18 is the closest to the manga out of all the universes in DBM.

[Hellspawn28]

Yes, we saw them relaxing and then we got a fast-forward. But the way it was structured makes it very clear that nothing interesting happened in those ten days. If something HAD, someone would have said something about it, and the whole scene with Gohan stepping forward at the Cell Games would be radically different.

By that logic, the DBM tournament never happened because the manga ended. The Broli incident wasn't mentioned because Toriyama obviously didn't have it in his mind. This doesn't mean that it can't happen at all. Toriyama was open about stories between the manga time-skips in the past, and he is even doing them right now with the JSAT, BoG, and FnF.

If Movie 8 happen in the anime then they would have mention it. Broli wipe out a whole galaxy over a period of time, they would have said something about it. South Kai would be like "You must be Goku. The one who defeated the Legendary Super Saiyan that wipe out the whole South Galaxy. I was worry that no one would stop him". Someone who wipes out a whole galaxy would not be ignored.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes. But U18 was SUPPOSED to be the unaltered manga continuity, to clash with the actual fan fiction universes. Which isn't the case.

No, it was always supposed to be the manga continuity, plus other things.

Broly has a lot to do with it. Goku was trying to underline Dabra's irrelevance. He would have said "yeah, we defeated two guys around his level", rather than just mentioning Cell.

But Broli isn't in the same level as Dabra. SS Vegeta's Final Flash, SS2 Gohan's Kamehameha, and SS3 Goku's Kamehameha combined couldn't kill him.

Never mind what the heroes were or weren't doing during those 10 days before the Cell Games. The kicker is what the rest of the Earth's population was doing, which was... nothing. Unless you count hiding and panicking.

All of society was just plain shut down because thanks to Cell's broadcast, they expected they could die in 10 days. Goku's family were the only ones relaxing, while the rest of the Z-fighters were training, and the rest of the population was huddled up in shelters and in their homes praying to nobody and then Dende that Cell wouldn't kill them. Nobody was doing things like going to cherry blossom viewing picnics, or lining up to have parent interviews at private schools.

So no, the events of Movie 8 can't have happened during the actual 10 days before the Cell Games as they happened in the main story. Daizenshuu #6 placing it there can only be referring to the general time period when it otherwise would have been set if things were different.

If Movie 8 happen in the anime then they would have mention it. Broli wipe out a whole galaxy over a period of time, they would have said something about it. South Kai would be like "You must be Goku. The one who defeated the Legendary Super Saiyan that wipe out the whole South Galaxy. I was worry that no one would stop him". Someone who wipes out a whole galaxy would not be ignored.

Guys, we are talking about DBM Broli, not the movies...

[Kamiccolo9]

Yes, we saw them relaxing and then we got a fast-forward. But the way it was structured makes it very clear that nothing interesting happened in those ten days. If something HAD, someone would have said something about it, and the whole scene with Gohan stepping forward at the Cell Games would be radically different.

By that logic, the DBM tournament never happened because the manga ended. The Broli incident wasn't mentioned because Toriyama obviously didn't have it in his mind. This doesn't mean that it can't happen at all. Toriyama was open about stories between the manga time-skips in the past, and he is even doing them right now with the JSAT, BoG, and FnF.

If Movie 8 happen in the anime then they would have mention it. Broli wipe out a whole galaxy over a period of time, they would have said something about it. South Kai would be like "You must be Goku. The one who defeated the Legendary Super Saiyan that wipe out the whole South Galaxy. I was worry that no one would stop him". Someone who wipes out a whole galaxy would not be ignored.

I never understood this viewpoint. Nobody ever mentions Future Trunks in the Buu Arc. One would think he'd be important enough to reference, if only to compare him with Trunks, but nope.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because nobody mentions something doesn't mean it didn't happen. The series shows a VERY small amount of time in these character's lives, and we're not privy to their thoughts most of the time.

Kaboom's explanation is clear enough, and doesn't rely on extremely strenuous "but they never mentioned it" logic.

[miguelnuva1]

Yes, we saw them relaxing and then we got a fast-forward. But the way it was structured makes it very clear that nothing interesting happened in those ten days. If something HAD, someone would have said something about it, and the whole scene with Gohan stepping forward at the Cell Games would be radically different.

By that logic, the DBM tournament never happened because the manga ended. The Broli incident wasn't mentioned because Toriyama obviously didn't have it in his mind. This doesn't mean that it can't happen at all. Toriyama was open about stories between the manga time-skips in the past, and he is even doing them right now with the JSAT, BoG, and FnF.

If Movie 8 happen in the anime then they would have mention it. Broli wipe out a whole galaxy over a period of time, they would have said something about it. South Kai would be like "You must be Goku. The one who defeated the Legendary Super Saiyan that wipe out the whole South Galaxy. I was worry that no one would stop him". Someone who wipes out a whole galaxy would not be ignored.

Broly didn't destroy the entire south galaxy they fought in the south galaxy.

[Tzigi]

By that logic, the DBM tournament never happened because the manga ended. The Broli incident wasn't mentioned because Toriyama obviously didn't have it in his mind. This doesn't mean that it can't happen at all. Toriyama was open about stories between the manga time-skips in the past, and he is even doing them right now with the JSAT, BoG, and FnF.

If Movie 8 happen in the anime then they would have mention it. Broli wipe out a whole galaxy over a period of time, they would have said something about it. South Kai would be like "You must be Goku. The one who defeated the Legendary Super Saiyan that wipe out the whole South Galaxy. I was worry that no one would stop him". Someone who wipes out a whole galaxy would not be ignored.

Kaboom's explanation is clear enough, and doesn't rely on extremely strenuous "but they never mentioned it" logic.

Only Kaboom's explanation takes into account the actual movie and not the special chapter of DBM where there is no "cherry blossom viewing picnics, or lining up to have parent interviews at private schools." There are just the main DB characters (sure - at a cherry blossom viewing picnic - but the problem of training is addressed directly in the dialogue) and that's all:

Spoiler:

[TheGmGoken]

Cell didn't sense or know about Broly?

Haven't read in months. There's another Broly special?

[FoolsGil]

I honestly don't know why this exact conversation pops up every few months. Yes, DBM is a fan comic that wasn't really planned out with as much detail. Yes, there's inconsistencies and dumb things even Toriyama would say 'wtf' too. We get it. I post my irritations at times, but dammit I don't say how much I hate Broly every 3 months, or swear off the fan comic and promptly come back like nothing has happened, or have a debate that can be found previously in past posts. Whether you like or hate this fancomic, try and bring something new to the table instead of rehashing the exact same stuff.

[coola]