Battle of Gods Box Office - $51.2 million

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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Blade » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:01 pm

sangofe wrote:
theoriginalbilis wrote:I'm glad to hear it's doing well in every country it's been screened in...

Makes me wonder how good/bad(?) the numbers will be when it eventually reaches US shores....
The longer they wait, the more they'll lose, because people are gonna pirate it, and I bet loads of people won't bother to go to the cinéma when they've downloaded it. At least the casual fans probably aren't, and honestly, I think that's where the money lies.
Most people on the inner workings of Hollywood and other film studios merely accept pirating as a fact of life now that has its fair share of advantages. If a show is heavily pirated, then it's successful. Look at shows like Game of Thrones and Top Gear - like Dragonball they have been heavily pirated around the world, giving them massive fan-bases in places where the people who created them haven't spent a penny on marketing. Those new fan bases then become new markets in which to sell merchandise.

The anime industry has sneered at online piracy for years, but in total honesty they know they're not really losing out because of it.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by theoriginalbilis » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:37 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:If we do get a screening for the movie then it might be at next year's Otakon.
That's the shittiest part about this whole Toei/FOX/FUNimation licensing thing... we're getting it over a year after everyone else... I really don't get it.

I mean, I get it. But I don't get it...
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:28 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:The movie is likely going to have a limited release. I'm beating it might make around 4 or 5 million on it's opening weekend.
You think it could pull those numbers in the US? At best this film will get a limited run with specific dates for regions ala the Evangelion movies.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:07 pm

It's possible for a limited released to make that much on it's first week. Aqua Teen Hunger Force Colon Movie Film for Theaters was released in select theaters back in 2007 and made over 3 million on it's first week.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/ch ... =15&p=.htm
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by sangofe » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:34 pm

theoriginalbilis wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:If we do get a screening for the movie then it might be at next year's Otakon.
That's the shittiest part about this whole Toei/FOX/FUNimation licensing thing... we're getting it over a year after everyone else... I really don't get it.

I mean, I get it. But I don't get it...
You don't know that. Currently, no country in Europe's announced Battle of Gods.

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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:53 pm

BOG will do fine in the US. Downloading movies won't stop it from selling well since most DBZ fans in the US already saw fansubs of DBZ Movie 1-13 before they were release on home video.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by sangofe » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:17 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:BOG will do fine in the US. Downloading movies won't stop it from selling well since most DBZ fans in the US already saw fansubs of DBZ Movie 1-13 before they were release on home video.
Really? What makes you think the casual Joe had seen all the movies fansubbed before they got released? Honestly, I believe only a very small fraction had, at maximum 5%. The casual fans, who bring in the dough, probably didn't see the movies before they got released...

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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:19 pm

Depending on if the film gets a wide release in European, and North American cinemas it has a good chance to out gross DBE on a worldwide scale.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Bullza » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:28 pm

It looks like it also opened in Uruguay on the 10th and Venezuela on the 11th aswell.

It opens on the 17th in Bolivia and 25th in Taiwan. Also opens on the 20th in Australia at the festival. It also opened in other countries that BOM haven't tracked grosses for like Hondurus and Panama.

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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Bullza » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:38 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:Depending on if the film gets a wide release in European, and North American cinemas it has a good chance to out gross DBE on a worldwide scale.
It does. Up to yet comparing BoG to Evolution then BoG has performed much better in South and Latin America compared to Evolution. For example the opening weekend in Chile was double what Evolution made in total.

On the flip side Evolution did much better in Asia. China was a big market for Evolution but BoG hasn't been released there.

BoG is only $7.3 million away from out grossing Evolution overseas so I think at least it'll beat it in that regard.

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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:18 pm

sangofe wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:BOG will do fine in the US. Downloading movies won't stop it from selling well since most DBZ fans in the US already saw fansubs of DBZ Movie 1-13 before they were release on home video.
Really? What makes you think the casual Joe had seen all the movies fansubbed before they got released? Honestly, I believe only a very small fraction had, at maximum 5%. The casual fans, who bring in the dough, probably didn't see the movies before they got released...
Well you said "people are gonna pirate it, and I bet loads of people won't bother to go to the cinéma when they've downloaded it". It's no different with DBZ Movie 1-13 when people like Anime Labs subbed the movies back in the day. Back in the 90's and early 2000's, DBZ was one of the most popular best selling fansubbed anime series. DBZ already had a fanbase in the US long before Funi released it.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:24 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:It's no different with DBZ Movie 1-13 when people like Anime Labs subbed the movies back in the day.
It's entirely different.

Obtaining a free, watchable ANY previous DBZ movie took knowledge that it was Japanese in the first place and knowledge that other movies existed in the first place, the idea that people subtitled them for you to watch, the faintest idea of where to go purchase them, and then some amount of money and physical effort to either transport yourself to the physical location with them or mail money and/or tapes through the postal system and wait several weeks for them to come back.

Obtaining a free, watchable Battle of Gods in 2013 takes two seconds on Google, and every other part of the above explanation is completely taken for granted (the "knowledge" part) or completely irrelevant (the "money" or "getting your ass out from the front of your computer").
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Blade » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:48 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:It's no different with DBZ Movie 1-13 when people like Anime Labs subbed the movies back in the day.
It's entirely different.

Obtaining a free, watchable ANY previous DBZ movie took knowledge that it was Japanese in the first place and knowledge that other movies existed in the first place, the idea that people subtitled them for you to watch, the faintest idea of where to go purchase them, and then some amount of money and physical effort to either transport yourself to the physical location with them or mail money and/or tapes through the postal system and wait several weeks for them to come back.

Obtaining a free, watchable Battle of Gods in 2013 takes two seconds on Google, and every other part of the above explanation is completely taken for granted (the "knowledge" part) or completely irrelevant (the "money" or "getting your ass out from the front of your computer").
As far as Toei is concerned it's no different. The means by which fansubbing takes place may have shifted in response to technological advances and the availability of new avenues, which in turn have sped up every element of the process from translation to distribution, but the end result is the same.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:00 pm

Back in 2003 when the Internet was becoming more common in house holds, you could still find download the Japanese versions of the movie on the web. I remember I downloaded DBZ Movie 12 and 13 on my mom's old PC back in 2003. Downloading movies does nothing to films when movies like The Avengers was leaked on the web weeks before it was released. Yet the movie made over 1 billion worldwide and is the third highest grossing movie of all time.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:18 pm

2003 was not 1998, and 2013 is not 2003.

Films like Avengers were going to make bank no matter what happened.

Am I of all people actually going apologist for the companies on this one...?!
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by sangofe » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:26 am

VegettoEX wrote:2003 was not 1998, and 2013 is not 2003.

Films like Avengers were going to make bank no matter what happened.

Am I of all people actually going apologist for the companies on this one...?!
Looks I was wrong;
http://sitgesfilmfestival.com/cas/film/?id=10003125

According to this site, Battle of Gods gets screened in Spain on October the 19th.

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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by MarcFBR » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:38 am

Blade wrote:The anime industry has sneered at online piracy for years, but in total honesty they know they're not really losing out because of it.
I'm sure Geneon, ADV, Bandai, and CPM, among others, would disagree with you.

Although I do appreciate reading posts from people who have no idea what they are talking about, it reminds me why I learned much of this stuff in the first place, so that I generally know what I'm talking about in subjects that mean something to me.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Blade » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:17 am

MarcFBR wrote:
Blade wrote:The anime industry has sneered at online piracy for years, but in total honesty they know they're not really losing out because of it.
I'm sure Geneon, ADV, Bandai, and CPM, among others, would disagree with you.

Although I do appreciate reading posts from people who have no idea what they are talking about, it reminds me why I learned much of this stuff in the first place, so that I generally know what I'm talking about in subjects that mean something to me.
Are you actually kidding me? The anime industry in Japan is able to monetise foreign markets with absolutely no outlay what-so-ever because of word-of-mouth on the internet and, by extension of that, online piracy. The anime industry in general is rather solipsistic in that domestic performance is always the primary concern, any foreign market money is seen as a bonus. Turn the clock back ten years and that may not necessarily have been the case, but in 2013 it's absolutely dead on the mark.

Do you honestly think that companies in Japan would have anything to do with sites like CrunchyRoll if it wasn't in-part embracing the consequences of online piracy? Of course they're never going to publicly give any positive reinforcement to online piracy, but it's never stopped them monetising it.

I concede that anime piracy, does however, have a more debilitating effect on Western home release sales, but that's not only down the availability of illegal downloads online but also the nature of the product. Most fans who pirate anime aren't interested in the dubbed material anyway, which when released is often incredibly far behind the storylines in Japan, which in turn makes it less relevant to fans who keep up to date on a weekly basis via pirating material, or watching it via pay-per-view subscription websites like CrunchyRoll, in turn making such sites equally as destructive, yet endorsed by the industry nonetheless.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by MarcFBR » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:12 am

Blade wrote:Are you actually kidding me? The anime industry in Japan is able to monetise foreign markets with absolutely no outlay what-so-ever because of word-of-mouth on the internet and, by extension of that, online piracy. The anime industry in general is rather solipsistic in that domestic performance is always the primary concern, any foreign market money is seen as a bonus.
While true, it ignores that you know, this is an American site, and to a degree we are concerned with how things affect anime for us. And frankly, the Japanese anime market barely knows how to monetize themselves. It's a house of cards built on a small number of fans who are willing to overpay.
Do you honestly think that companies in Japan would have anything to do with sites like CrunchyRoll if it wasn't in-part embracing the consequences of online piracy? Of course they're never going to publicly give any positive reinforcement to online piracy, but it's never stopped them monetising it.
And most of those companies wouldn't get near Crunchyroll until they dumped their bootlegging, and a good chunk of shows on Crunchyroll aren't even the most wanted shows (while it has a few things that are heavily wanted, a good number of shows companies will not put on Crunchyroll, because it devalues them.)

I concede that anime piracy, does however, have a more debilitating effect on Western home release sales, but that's not only down the availability of illegal downloads online but also the nature of the product. Most fans who pirate anime aren't interested in the dubbed material anyway, which when released is often incredibly far behind the storylines in Japan, which in turn makes it less relevant to fans who keep up to date on a weekly basis via pirating material, or watching it via pay-per-view subscription websites like CrunchyRoll, in turn making such sites equally as destructive, yet endorsed by the industry nonetheless.
That pseudo ignores (I say pseudo because you do mention it, but sort of ignore the logic of it) the fact that the vast majority of anime can be watched before bootlegs come out (and that many of the bootlegs are based on these versions,) at prices that are more than reasonable, and a good chunk of people still choose to bootleg. Changing it to 'dubbed material' is a moot argument when the companies put stuff up subbed faster than the bootleggers can, and when the price of entry is so low that it's roughly the cost of a single bargain bin disk a month.

It also become a problem for the Japanese side when you look at it from the perspective that in those cases when anime does have value overseas, it CAN add heavily to the Japanese companies bottom line (even if that rarely happens anymore.) The most obvious current example would be something we are all familiar with, Dragon Ball Kai. A show that didn't do so hot in Japan, but because of overseas markets is considered valuable enough for Toei to go back and finish what was effectively a failed product.
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Re: Battle of Gods Box Office Thread - $40.8 million

Post by Blade » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:16 pm

MarcFBR wrote:While true, it ignores that you know, this is an American site, and to a degree we are concerned with how things affect anime for us. And frankly, the Japanese anime market barely knows how to monetize themselves. It's a house of cards built on a small number of fans who are willing to overpay.
It ignores no such thing. This is an American site which largely caters for, and is frequented by, fans of the Japanese original. There are also dub fans on here, but their proportion is outweighed. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get across here - that it's the Anime industry's own fault that they're not making as much money as they could be? I'm not sure how that supports the argument against the effect piracy is having upon it, as you seem to think that its failings to generate greater revenues are a foregone conclusion nonetheless on account of their core business model. While I agree to some extent with what you're saying, the Japanese entertainment industry is very good at identifying and creating salable products for very specific demographics - the anime industry is no different from the music industry in that respect, which is somewhat unique in the world in my experience of milking respectable sums of money out of extremely niche demographics.
And most of those companies wouldn't get near Crunchyroll until they dumped their bootlegging, and a good chunk of shows on Crunchyroll aren't even the most wanted shows (while it has a few things that are heavily wanted, a good number of shows companies will not put on Crunchyroll, because it devalues them.)
The fact that any company is even willing to deal with Crunchyroll in the first place given its less-than-legitimate roots is testament to the fact that industry is willing to engage with how their material is distributed through pirating and utilise those avenues to generate income. Practically every subscriber to Crunchyroll has arrived at the point of subscription through first pirating anime, and the entire community who use the website by extension of that are a demographic that exists more or less purely because of bootlegging. I reject that Crunchyroll lacks the 'most wanted' content, and also question your suggestion that companies refuse to deal with Crunchyroll due to feeling 'devalued'. The majority of top properties that don't appear on Crunchyroll (such as One Piece) don't appear due to licensing issues, and often appear on other subscription based services, such as the one that Funimation offers - which delivers essentially the same service as Crunchyroll.
It also become a problem for the Japanese side when you look at it from the perspective that in those cases when anime does have value overseas, it CAN add heavily to the Japanese companies bottom line (even if that rarely happens anymore.) The most obvious current example would be something we are all familiar with, Dragon Ball Kai. A show that didn't do so hot in Japan, but because of overseas markets is considered valuable enough for Toei to go back and finish what was effectively a failed product.
Dragonball, as an older title which made its name overseas prior to modern piracy, is a different kettle of fish indeed to contemporary examples, however I think that the evidence shows that converse to the point you're making, the fact that there was sufficient money on the table for Toei to agree to continue the production of Kai for the overseas market proves that the effect of piracy hasn't really done anything to inhibit arrangements like this being made, either in respect to finance or good will towards the overseas market.
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