Kai Episode 100 (13 April 2014)

[Cold Skin]

Really good episode, Videl discovers Great Saiyaman's identity very fast, and that's how it should be: with Gohan's clumsiness and Videl's perspicacity, it can't take more than a few minutes with Great Saiyaman for him to be exposed!

The music still has some great synth pieces that are well in the magical spirit of that universe, but it also lets you hear some orchestral pieces with the "previously" part and the final scene. Those orchestrated pieces are obviously so good they could have easily been in the movie!
Especially the music for the final scene that actually makes it epic: you just smile for Gohan's renewed optimism and hope for the upcoming days, and the rock guitar coming in when he goes swirling around on the way is just perfect with its hopeful melody! Much like Goku leaving Kaio's planet the first time, it's a scene that could be like nothing particular is happening, but it turned like an epic scene that makes you smile with hope for the future thanks to the music playing!

We will still have a lot of time before proper full-scaled tracks can be played though, as the first serious event is Videl getting beat up by Spopovitch! So until then, it is simply impossible and pointless to properly judge the quality of the music, as there will be no "intense" track - Sumimoto's particular strength - required! Even the kids' finale is a friendly battle and can play "funny" synth music, so no big track will be played until Videl starts dropping teeth! Until then, the audio guy will have to circle around the same "soft" tracks (also because you have to keep some in store for later episodes and make it feel like there's consistantly "new" tracks being added when they're actually all ready - in the previous Kai saga, some tracks only played once Cell was about to absorb C-18, once Gohan and Goku were relaxing near the lake or once Vegeta was furious because of Trunks' death).

With the Yamamoto score, shouldn't you guys already know that you're all "it's lame and always the same tracks and I'm scared for the future episodes and it doesn't fit at all" before later saying "the score turned out pretty good, actually"?
Shouldn't you refrain from judging after 2 episodes where the plot is so light that it requires nothing else than "easy, funny, playful, gimmicky" background music?

[worldmonsters]

Yeah I agree. While I'd still prefer a lot above the Faulconer tracks (even though I think some of them are actually kind of cool, I still have a sweet spot for the old funimation dub) this music is usually below that. Also I did notice the music just droning on. They could do with some more silence.


I thought the part before the eye catch was actually pretty well paced I do remember a shot from the manga in which Gohan notices Videl's ki... was that different in the show? In any case the whole baby Pterodactyl story, yeah... that could've used 2 extra minutes. Honestly though, I don't know how they could've fixed that properly... I guess beginning the next episode with Videl finding out about Gohan's identity would've been best... But Goku announcing he's coming is such a great way to end an episode :p And on the other hand the whole baby Pterodactyl story wasn't all THAT interesting to begin with.

Even though I really really like Yuko Minaguchi's Videl, the new VA is definitely allowed a pass imho. She does a good enough job for me :p Also am I the only one sad that the part where Videl jumps on Gohan's face was left out? :p



Hehe :"p

The music still has some great synth pieces that are well in the magical spirit of that universe, but it also lets you hear some orchestral pieces with the "previously" part and the final scene. Those orchestrated pieces are obviously so good they could have easily been in the movie!
Especially the music for the final scene that actually makes it epic: you just smile for Gohan's renewed optimism and hope for the upcoming days, and the rock guitar coming in when he goes swirling around on the way is just perfect with its hopeful melody! Much like Goku leaving Kaio's planet the first time, it's a scene that could be like nothing particular is happening, but it turned like an epic scene that makes you smile with hope for the future thanks to the music playing!

We will still have a lot of time before proper full-scaled tracks can be played though, as the first serious event is Videl getting beat up by Spopovitch! So until then, it is simply impossible and pointless to properly judge the quality of the music, as there will be no "intense" track - Sumimoto's particular strength - required! Even the kids' finale is a friendly battle and can play "funny" synth music, so no big track will be played until Videl starts dropping teeth! Until then, the audio guy will have to circle around the same "soft" tracks (also because you have to keep some in store for later episodes and make it feel like there's consistantly "new" tracks being added when they're actually all ready - in the previous Kai saga, some tracks only played once Cell was about to absorb C-18, once Gohan and Goku were relaxing near the lake or once Vegeta was furious because of Trunks' death).

With the Yamamoto score, shouldn't you guys already know that you're all "it's lame and always the same tracks and I'm scared for the future episodes and it doesn't fit at all" before later saying "the score turned out pretty good, actually"?
Shouldn't you refrain from judging after 2 episodes where the plot is so light that it requires nothing else than "easy, funny, playful, gimmicky" background music?

Eh, honestly, the Yamamoto score already had a lot to like about it in the first two episodes. And I know those are slightly more action-packed, but I've gotta be honest. Some of the music just sound like midi tracks. Some of them are just below a certain standard that doesn't belong in Dragon Ball. There are some tracks that are better. The Previously music is better in quality, but really doesn't do it for me. The "Next Time" music is just below that quality standard and sounds like a midi. There were some tracks, like the track when Videl exposes Gohan that I sort of liked. I hope the guy does action and mystery well, but I'm kind of afraid that what we've heard here doesn't bode well.

In other words, yes, we should wait to find out, but a lot of tracks we've heard are just midi-ish in their quality. You might like it, but across the board for Dragon Ball music, this is pretty abysmal. It's not as bad as Funimations Dragon Ball GT dub music, I'll give them THAT

[Flame Dragon]

These posts make me worry for future episodes. When I heard they were giving the Buu saga the Kai treatment, there were two instances of filler in the earlier episodes that I really hoped would be cut out: The first was as much of the Saiyaman filler as humanly possible, specifically the Dinosaur filler. I feel that it would have been possible, but they seem to have let me down. The second is the Shapner-trying-to-expose-Saiyaman filler at the beginning of the tournament; it could easily be cut out, Toei just needs to go the extra mile by painting Shapner out of a shot or two. However, if this handling of the Saiyaman filler is any indication, things don't look good for losing the Shapner crapola at the tournament.

I'm also saddened to hear that the music hasn't really improved. I wasn't feeling it in the first episode, but I'm saving my judgement for when I watch a few more episodes. I don't doubt that placement has a lot to do with it. On the other hand, I enjoyed Yamamoto's score from the start.

I actually enjoyed most of the filler for the Great Saiyaman arc (probably because most of it was humorous), so it doesn't bother me.

[Puto]

I'm gonna be honest about the music: I actually think the music is really well composed... however, the instrumentation itself is extremely cheap, and thus ruins the music as a whole. I think they basically gave Sumitomo no budget to work with.

[worldmonsters]

I'm gonna be honest about the music: I actually think the music is really well composed... however, the instrumentation itself is extremely cheap, and thus ruins the music as a whole. I think they basically gave Sumitomo no budget to work with.

That's prooooobably the case. I don't know if you are well versed in composing and you are a better judge of composition, but I think the ones with the really bad instrumentation aren't that well composed as well. But honestly I don't actually play an instrument, can't read notes and have never composed anything, so I might not have a qualified opinion on the quality of the composition itself :p So far the music doesn't do a lot for me tho.

[dan2026]

The music still has some great synth pieces that are well in the magical spirit of that universe, but it also lets you hear some orchestral pieces with the "previously" part and the final scene. Those orchestrated pieces are obviously so good they could have easily been in the movie!
Especially the music for the final scene that actually makes it epic: you just smile for Gohan's renewed optimism and hope for the upcoming days, and the rock guitar coming in when he goes swirling around on the way is just perfect with its hopeful melody! Much like Goku leaving Kaio's planet the first time, it's a scene that could be like nothing particular is happening, but it turned like an epic scene that makes you smile with hope for the future thanks to the music playing!

You put it so eloquently, better than I could!

The music does fit the magical spirit of the universe. It reminds me of early Dragon Ball, wonder, mystery and a hopeful feeling for the future.
It did put a smile on my face, sort of reminded me why I got into Dragon Ball in the first place.

[Flame Dragon]

I can't wait for the english dub to come out, i'm freaking pumped!
I watched some random episodes from the Kai dub and i loved it. So damn good. I don't even care about the Japanese version of Buu Kai to be honest.

[Cold Skin]

There was also something great specific to that episode: how appropriate the transition to the ending is!
You have that wonderful scene with that wonderful music playing to announce that Goku is coming back to see his friends and family again, and while you hear the hopeful music, Gohan saying "Dad's coming back! He's coming back!! YAHOOO!!" thinking about how everyone will be reunited for the main event, the camera looks up to the bright sun in the blue sky and the immediate transition is... the ending music "ahaaa-ahaaaaa..." with a photo of Goku in the middle of all his friends and family, just like the dream picture Gohan must have in his head right now!!

Seriously, perfect final scene with a perfect transition to the ending credits!

[Ajay]

I entirely agree, Cold Skin.

As much as I despised the majority of this week's episode, those last few minutes were perfect. The score and the tone were quintessentially Dragon Ball.

The fact there are moments like that only worsens my feelings towards the preceding scenes. We know they can do it well so it's such a shame to have such heavy inconsistencies in quality.

Fingers crossed this is somewhat indicative of what's to come! Not holding my breath.

[Flame Dragon]

I entirely agree, Cold Skin.

As much as I despised the majority of this week's episode, those last few minutes were perfect. The score and the tone were quintessentially Dragon Ball.

The fact there are moments like that only worsens my feelings towards the preceding scenes. We know they can do it well so it's such a shame to have such heavy inconsistencies in quality.

Fingers crossed this is somewhat indicative of what's to come! Not holding my breath.

I'm glad they didn't reanimate the dinosaur part tho. I was afraid it would have looked awful... not to mention it contradicts nothing so that piece of 2 minute filler can gladly stay in my opinion.
Look at the bright side, at least the dinosaur is cute

[Ajay]

It doesn't contradict anything and yeah, it was edited down to a inoffensive length but I can't help but think they could have reused any of the Saiyaman filler scenes to construct something that would closely resemble the way the manga handled the reveal.

This is entirely me being an unreasonable and entitled fan but it felt like that made very little effort to even try in that regard.

[ShinGaijin]

I can't wait for the english dub to come out, i'm freaking pumped!
I watched some random episodes from the Kai dub and i loved it. So damn good. I don't even care about the Japanese version of Buu Kai to be honest.

Ah ah the same for me the japanese cast did an amazing performance, as usual...and Shino Kakinuma's Videl is fine to me... but...if the original japanese version was my wife, the FUNi dub would be my paramour (exclusively for Kai of course) ^^'
There's another question : will there be a proper 4:3 aspect ratio version on Blu Ray ? We're not even sure of that.
Like the first 98 episodes, that would be awesome to have two versions. *ç*

[Ajay]

There's another question : will there be a proper 4:3 aspect ratio version on Blu Ray ? We're not even sure of that.

We don't know for sure, no. However, it's highly unlikely that they would change their minds about the Blu-ray aspect ratio at this point.

I imagine, much like before, the DVD will feature the 16:9 crop whilst the Blu-ray, staying true to the intentions of the format, will present the show in its original aspect ratio.

Remember that Kai is only 16:9 on TV due to Japan's television standards rather than an explicit choice by Toei.

[garnetjester]

I agree that the really cheap instrumentation damages the background music. Certainly the compositions are nothing to write home about (but that's alright anyway, since this is humorous filler after all) but that cheap synth is killing me, they can do better than that, but I don't know if they have the budget to actually do so. I know that Toei is uhh... fond of saving money, but this "we're gonna remaster it ourselves and only give a keyboard to the guy in charge of the music because who cares about the quality of this product" is really grinding my gears with this release.

ETA: The baby dragon thing felt super rushed and they even left parts in where unless you had watched the full version of those episodes I'm not sure you would've understood the whole thing completely (like when Gohan teases the baby dragon because he was not afraid of flying on his mother's back, however, the part where Gohan had tried to fly with baby dino in tow was cut so that comment came off a bit weird). I'm ok with Shino Kakinuma, but I prefer Minaguchi, her voice gives Videl a spunkier edge that I particularly enjoy about her. Nozawa is sooo amazing here! Her Gohan is hilarious!

[dan2026]

As I understand it every new show on Japanese TV has to be in 16:9, is pretty bizarre.
I'm sure the Blu-ray will be 4:3 though.

What could they do with the dinosaur crap though realistically?
'Z' massively messed up when and where events happen.

[Valerius Dover]

Glad I'm not the only who thought the music wasn't that good.


Still better than any Funimation soundtrack though.

Hmmmm, this actually sounds pretty good to me. I really liked the Funimation scores, so that means I'll probably really like this, too.

[worldmonsters]

Glad I'm not the only who thought the music wasn't that good.


Still better than any Funimation soundtrack though.

Hmmmm, this actually sounds pretty good to me. I really liked the Funimation scores, so that means I'll probably really like this, too.

Nah, wouldn't put too much faith into that. The majority of the people here, I believe, isn't very fond of the Faulconer score, but a lot of Kai's music is very below even that. And I also like some of the Faulconer tracks! But this is just worse than that.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'm not surprised that they had to keep the dinosaur bit, albeit abridged - given how cheap Kai even at it's peak was done, you didn't really expect them to put up that much effort, did you?

Sucks that the music seems to not fit according to so many though, since I enjoyed Sumitomo's work in Battle of Gods as much as I did. I am glad that it sounds like our new Mr. Satan and Videl are all right though. Minaguchi is still one of my favorites on the Japanese side of things, and I miss Gouri every day (and still haven't heard the new guy in the Cell arc of Kai), so that was a part I was really worried about here.

[Valerius Dover]

Glad I'm not the only who thought the music wasn't that good.


Still better than any Funimation soundtrack though.

Hmmmm, this actually sounds pretty good to me. I really liked the Funimation scores, so that means I'll probably really like this, too.

Nah, wouldn't put too much faith into that. The majority of the people here, I believe, isn't very fond of the Faulconer score, but a lot of Kai's music is very below even that. And I also like some of the Faulconer tracks! But this is just worse than that.

Hmmm, I meant Funimation scores in general, not just Faulconer. (Then again, that probably puts me in an even smaller minority). If I could enjoy stuff by Menza and Johnson, surely I could like this? I mean, how bad could it be? The only music for a show I've really hated was the dub of Sonic X.....

[MagicBox]

Boy, I wasn't expecting to see that much of the Chibi filler... Within the span of six minutes, we get Gohan and Goten looking at an empty nest; Gohan, Goten, and ChiChi watching TV; Gohan breaking into the circus; Gohan stealing Chibi; Gohan on the run from the police; Gohan fighting Videl; Gohan almost saying his name and Videl questioning him about it; the parent dinosaurs going on a rampage; AND Gohan taking the dinosaurs home... all so Gohan can have a little cut on his face the next day.

Why not just digitally paint a little cut on Gohan's cheek during the hijacking story? They wouldn't have even had to re-animate anything. Add in two quick lines of dialogue...

Videl: "Your face..."
Great Saiyaman: "Daijōbu!"

... and everyone would have just assumed Gohan got cut by glass while catching the bus in mid-air. Surely that would have cost less than "remastering" almost a whole filler episode's worth of Z material. It sure would have helped this episode's pacing, but then again, we already knew this was going to be a bad one.

Kakinuma's Videl does nothing for me; I feel absolutely nothing when I hear that character. The scene between her and Ishizuka's Satan broke my heart. I love these characters so much, but they mean nothing to be without Minaguchi and Gōri.

The eyecatches stayed the same, which was expected (but still unfortunate). They probably won't change until the gang leaves the tournament.

I still don't know what to make of the music. The actual placement is horrible. I feel like I'm watching the dub on Toonami; there's almost no background silence. The music isn't there to enhance the story. It's just there because we've gone ten seconds since the previous piece of music. Could this be due to the series originally only being produced for foreign markets? They know Americans frequently score their cartoons by "Mickey-Mousing" so they think that's what we want?

It's hard for me to hear the actual compositions over the dialogue and sound effects, so I might have to wait for an official soundtrack release before actually being able to judge the music. Sigh, I can't believe I'm actually going to buy this. I really, really don't like what I've heard. The only piece I enjoyed was the final one before the end credits (which others in this thread have been praising), and I only enjoyed that because it gave me hope that Toei possibly, maybe gave Sumitomo enough of a budget to record a few tracks with an actual orchestra.

Kai is such a weird, weird show. Nearly everyone's complaining, but we'll all be back next week.