Theory - Jiren's Wish

[mahakaishin1991]

This is the most likely in my opinion. Jiren ends up winning somehow and as he’s about to make his wish, he remembers that he lives for justice and that his master wouldn’t have wanted him to make a selfish wish. A theme in this arc is casting something of yours aside for the greater good. Jiren will cast aside his selfish wants to fix his past by instead wishing to restore all the universes erased by the Zenos.

HOPEFULLY: In either a movie, TV special, or arc, after the Tournament Goku meets up with Jiren, thanking him for the wish he made and then Jiren asks him for his and Vegeta’s help in Universe 11 as he plans on facing off against the evil-doer once and for all.

I was hoping for a special like that ever since goku met toppo. Imagine if they train him up to be a true hero?

Meanwhile Vegeta goes on his Planet Sadala visit

[Baggie_Saiyan]

With the future DB Movie about Yamoshi and the Sayajins origins, it's now 100% confirmed than BOG/FNF/SUPER can't be erased.
Yamoshi is directly related to SSGOD so there is no way you can supress Beerus/SSGOD/SSBLUE/UI for the EOZ.
Even if it's your biggest wish, it's a dream with 0% chance, except if you delete the next Movie lol

Hopefully we can discuss that 0% chance in a month or so.

Add the fact that the Toriyama's interview about SSGOD and Yamoshi was made at the end of november 2017 far far later than his script about TOP....
So there is absolutely no reason for Toriyama to keep revealing something he decide to suppress 1 year ago...
And since december, we know Toriyama work for the new Movie, so it's pretty clear his interview with Yamoshi is connected to the new script !

So to resume, the thing we see now in DBSUPER is way before the revelation of SSGOD origin.

People are kidding themselves with this silly retcon DBS away thing.
Toei's press release for new movie:
"The theme for this remarkable new film will be “Saiyan”, the strongest race in the universe. Since “Battle of the Gods”, Goku has undergone new forms from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue to other evolved forms that have gone up against many invincible warriors from multiple universes. This new story will focus on the origin of the Saiyans’ strength and what it means to be Saiyan."

Doesn't get more black and white than that.

[AnimeNation101]

Hopefully we can discuss that 0% chance in a month or so.

Add the fact that the Toriyama's interview about SSGOD and Yamoshi was made at the end of november 2017 far far later than his script about TOP....
So there is absolutely no reason for Toriyama to keep revealing something he decide to suppress 1 year ago...
And since december, we know Toriyama work for the new Movie, so it's pretty clear his interview with Yamoshi is connected to the new script !

So to resume, the thing we see now in DBSUPER is way before the revelation of SSGOD origin.

People are kidding themselves with this silly retcon DBS away thing.
Toei's press release for new movie:
"The theme for this remarkable new film will be “Saiyan”, the strongest race in the universe. Since “Battle of the Gods”, Goku has undergone new forms from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue to other evolved forms that have gone up against many invincible warriors from multiple universes. This new story will focus on the origin of the Saiyans’ strength and what it means to be Saiyan."

Doesn't get more black and white than that.

Exactly. When thinking of what goes on in Dragon Ball, you have to think like a CEO at Toei. Stuff like fan-service, homages, and returning characters are all for money. Why would Toei or even TORIYAMA erased everything that has ever happened in Super, the series that probably has world building at the biggest scale in dragon ball ever, giving Dragon ball more potential than its ever had? That would be the WORST dragon ball related decision ever.

[t0ffe3m4n]

Nah. I doubt they'd go that route. Fans would be pissed. lol.

If they want Jiren to subvert expectations, his wish should not be to revive his fallen loved ones. Instead, his wish should be to call forth the villain that killed them.

That's exactly what I thought. Would be a pretty cool twist.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Add the fact that the Toriyama's interview about SSGOD and Yamoshi was made at the end of november 2017 far far later than his script about TOP....
So there is absolutely no reason for Toriyama to keep revealing something he decide to suppress 1 year ago...
And since december, we know Toriyama work for the new Movie, so it's pretty clear his interview with Yamoshi is connected to the new script !

So to resume, the thing we see now in DBSUPER is way before the revelation of SSGOD origin.

People are kidding themselves with this silly retcon DBS away thing.
Toei's press release for new movie:
"The theme for this remarkable new film will be “Saiyan”, the strongest race in the universe. Since “Battle of the Gods”, Goku has undergone new forms from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue to other evolved forms that have gone up against many invincible warriors from multiple universes. This new story will focus on the origin of the Saiyans’ strength and what it means to be Saiyan."

Doesn't get more black and white than that.

Exactly. When thinking of what goes on in Dragon Ball, you have to think like a CEO at Toei. Stuff like fan-service, homages, and returning characters are all for money. Why would Toei or even TORIYAMA erased everything that has ever happened in Super, the series that probably has world building at the biggest scale in dragon ball ever, giving Dragon ball more potential than its ever had? That would be the WORST dragon ball related decision ever.

Plus accounting the mega popularity of SSGSS or Goku Black, so to tell people these don't exist anymore is a massive shot in the foot and then not to mention Ultra Instinct gets introduced and then doesn't exist a few episodes later? Especially when it barely has time to me merch'd would also be dumb, incredibly dumb.

Also the press release heavily implies the movie does take place after DBS with the "to other evolved forms that have gone up against many invincible warriors from multiple universes" bit and also is another confirmation about Omen and UI being different.

[TheMikado]

Add the fact that the Toriyama's interview about SSGOD and Yamoshi was made at the end of november 2017 far far later than his script about TOP....
So there is absolutely no reason for Toriyama to keep revealing something he decide to suppress 1 year ago...
And since december, we know Toriyama work for the new Movie, so it's pretty clear his interview with Yamoshi is connected to the new script !

So to resume, the thing we see now in DBSUPER is way before the revelation of SSGOD origin.

People are kidding themselves with this silly retcon DBS away thing.
Toei's press release for new movie:
"The theme for this remarkable new film will be “Saiyan”, the strongest race in the universe. Since “Battle of the Gods”, Goku has undergone new forms from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue to other evolved forms that have gone up against many invincible warriors from multiple universes. This new story will focus on the origin of the Saiyans’ strength and what it means to be Saiyan."

Doesn't get more black and white than that.

Exactly. When thinking of what goes on in Dragon Ball, you have to think like a CEO at Toei. Stuff like fan-service, homages, and returning characters are all for money. Why would Toei or even TORIYAMA erased everything that has ever happened in Super, the series that probably has world building at the biggest scale in dragon ball ever, giving Dragon ball more potential than its ever had? That would be the WORST dragon ball related decision ever.

Man I hate this logic.

Just like all the charts and graphs to show us Super would not be ending any time soon.
Just like Toriyama isn't going to bring back yellow SSJ because Blue is now the face of Goku and Dragonball.
Just like all the claims that the Grand Priest wasn't actually going to destroy universes and some elaborate plot with Goku.
Just Like the LSSJ not appearing in Super because Toriyama would never use something like that.
Just like Toriyama wouldn't ignore his movies in regards to Goku absorbing SSG power in his base form.

These "never going to happen" scenarios are getting proven wrong time and time again. Its ridiculous.
The new movie is about SSG being the origin of SSJ. It is circling back yet again to making SSJ the front running iconic form.
Further simply undoing the events of Super does not prevent anyone from existing. It's absurd. The form still exists. All you have to do is look at GT to see that none of that matters. They will sell it regardless of its standing relative to the story.

We have armchair CEOs running around talking about how this would be a bad business decision, etc. Yet they seem to be doing everything contrary to what the fans claim "good" business people should be doing.

At this point the writers are using common tropes to progress the story. One of the most common tropes is the "All just a dream". And one of the key give aways are the deaths of major characters. So far we have virtually every other universe being erased. A major character from the mainline plot, and it an ending and resolution coming in a few episodes when the full climax has not even been reached. Its the most giveaway aspect that the audience is being setup for a "it was all just a dream" moment. Or in this case a "Reset button" via the Super Dragonballs.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... JustADream

Sometimes the dream lasts longer than one episode — entire seasons, and even entire series, have been known to turn out to be dreams. Often, when the dreamer awakens, the really epic events (death of a major character, etc.) from the "dream season" will be reversed.

It really isn't even worth debating over at this point, in a month or so we will know for sure, but from a literary sense it has been setup from at least the Champa arc and possibly even going back to the Golden Frieza arc. I posited for this setup to be true, there would need to be mention that Frieza's resurrection only occured while Vegeta and Goku were off training with Whis and low and behold that is what happened in the last manga chapter. There was no need to rehash or emphasize that point specifically unless it has plot relevance later on in the resolution. Anyway, there's no point because Super is ending shortly with some resolution at play. The short resolution time seems to imply an outcome we the audience would already be familiar with.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

You really are kidding yourself here. It had plot relevance cuz Freeza got revived in the Manga Toyo skipped over the intial one... Hence he had to mention it again or felt compelled too.

DBS will not end on a "reset".

Producers said it themselves they weren't sure how DBS was gonna end. Toei's press release talks about SSG to SSGSS and UI no mention of SS.

[AnimeNation101]

People are kidding themselves with this silly retcon DBS away thing.
Toei's press release for new movie:
"The theme for this remarkable new film will be “Saiyan”, the strongest race in the universe. Since “Battle of the Gods”, Goku has undergone new forms from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue to other evolved forms that have gone up against many invincible warriors from multiple universes. This new story will focus on the origin of the Saiyans’ strength and what it means to be Saiyan."

Doesn't get more black and white than that.

Exactly. When thinking of what goes on in Dragon Ball, you have to think like a CEO at Toei. Stuff like fan-service, homages, and returning characters are all for money. Why would Toei or even TORIYAMA erased everything that has ever happened in Super, the series that probably has world building at the biggest scale in dragon ball ever, giving Dragon ball more potential than its ever had? That would be the WORST dragon ball related decision ever.

Man I hate this logic.

Just like all the charts and graphs to show us Super would not be ending any time soon.
Just like Toriyama isn't going to bring back yellow SSJ because Blue is now the face of Goku and Dragonball.
Just like all the claims that the Grand Priest wasn't actually going to destroy universes and some elaborate plot with Goku.
Just Like the LSSJ not appearing in Super because Toriyama would never use something like that.
Just like Toriyama wouldn't ignore his movies in regards to Goku absorbing SSG power in his base form.

These "never going to happen" scenarios are getting proven wrong time and time again. Its ridiculous.
The new movie is about SSG being the origin of SSJ. It is circling back yet again to making SSJ the front running iconic form.
Further simply undoing the events of Super does not prevent anyone from existing. It's absurd. The form still exists. All you have to do is look at GT to see that none of that matters. They will sell it regardless of its standing relative to the story.

We have armchair CEOs running around talking about how this would be a bad business decision, etc. Yet they seem to be doing everything contrary to what the fans claim "good" business people should be doing.

At this point the writers are using common tropes to progress the story. One of the most common tropes is the "All just a dream". And one of the key give aways are the deaths of major characters. So far we have virtually every other universe being erased. A major character from the mainline plot, and it an ending and resolution coming in a few episodes when the full climax has not even been reached. Its the most giveaway aspect that the audience is being setup for a "it was all just a dream" moment. Or in this case a "Reset button" via the Super Dragonballs.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... JustADream

Sometimes the dream lasts longer than one episode — entire seasons, and even entire series, have been known to turn out to be dreams. Often, when the dreamer awakens, the really epic events (death of a major character, etc.) from the "dream season" will be reversed.

It really isn't even worth debating over at this point, in a month or so we will know for sure, but from a literary sense it has been setup from at least the Champa arc and possibly even going back to the Golden Frieza arc. I posited for this setup to be true, there would need to be mention that Frieza's resurrection only occured while Vegeta and Goku were off training with Whis and low and behold that is what happened in the last manga chapter. There was no need to rehash or emphasize that point specifically unless it has plot relevance later on in the resolution. Anyway, there's no point because Super is ending shortly with some resolution at play. The short resolution time seems to imply an outcome we the audience would already be familiar with.

Just like all the charts and graphs to show us Super would not be ending any time soon.
(This was before people knew there would be a movie or Kitaro coming back so this is a bad excuse)

Just like Toriyama isn't going to bring back yellow SSJ because Blue is now the face of Goku and Dragonball.
(Only the minority of people said this so this is ALSO a bad excuse)

Just like all the claims that the Grand Priest wasn't actually going to destroy universes and some elaborate plot with Goku.
(Only the minority said this so its a bad excuse. And even then, the GP still wasn’t responsible for the erasure. It was the Zenos. That makes this a REALLY bad excuse.)

Just Like the LSSJ not appearing in Super because Toriyama would never use something like that.
(People said Broly would not be in Super. No one mentioned the LSSJ form. And it isn’t even the same think. They named the form, SSBerserk on purpose. To show that the forms are different so this is a bad excuse.)

Just like Toriyama wouldn't ignore his movies in regards to Goku absorbing SSG power in his base form.
(The minority of people said this so this is a bad excuse.)

Something like regretting rid of everything that has ever happened is something that would never happen because there are no benefits. Unless someone is trying to make GT canon, there is no reason that they should get rid of everything that has happened. TOEI cares about money. All the decisions they’ve made have been because of money in the long run. Taking Super off the air would help in the production of the new movie which would bring it millions upon millions of dollars or yen. Doing fanservice stuff like Blue Vegito or “female Broly” were for money. Erasing Super wouldn’t bring ANY money EVER and wouldn’t benefit Toei at all. It would hurt the series by erasing any potential of a new dragon ball series because with no Super, the cast wont know of other universes which means they’re limited to U7. There is nothing left in U7 for them. Also, with plot threads like going to U6 Planet Sadala, there is no way they would get rid of all that.

Erasing Super is just too stupid and implausible to EVER happen. If that were to happen, I would NEVER post on Kanzenshuu again. THATS HOW CONFIDENT I AM.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Well, if the manga lends us anything, we know it's against his code. I theorize he'll wish that his parents were never killed. Being about strength and justice, he would go against that by giving in to weakness. Just a hunch

[BrolyKale]

People said Broly would not be in Super. No one mentioned the LSSJ form. And it isn’t even the same think. They named the form, SSBerserk on purpose. To show that the forms are different so this is a bad excuse

How come they are different? they are identical, green hair, big muscles, overflowing ki, don't lose speed. If you say the transformation is different because it has a different "name" then its just ridiculous...

[Lek]

I could see either Jiren or Freeza getting the wish in the end and it being "Remove all God Ki from existence".
- Jiren could use it to weaken the "great evil" that haunted him in the past and finally be able to stop it
- Freeza could use it to rebel against the Zenos / Grand Priest / Beerus
- U7 and U11 would be save from Zenos destruction. The Super Dragon Balls could be gathered again at a later point to bring back the erased universes. (or could they, if they scatter between U6 and U7 and one of them is gone? )
- It would remove Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue, strip the Gods of Destruction from being overly powerful and remove the Zenos as a potential threat in the future. Hence Super could once again possibly lead into GT, if Toei doesn't want to invalidate it.