GT vs Super [POLL]

[PsionicWarrior]

So if you can still change the poll to a pick 2 option, please do so.

Sorry I can't

[SupremeKai25]

Ugh, this argument that Zamasu is a Baby rip-off again. Yes, Zamasu and Baby have so much in common. Let's see... they hate Goku and Saiyans in general... well, basically every villain hates Goku and Saiyans in general. Oh, and they both have white hair! Well, in this case, Baby is a Shin's rip-off, but whatever. Oh, right, they both took over someone's else body! Except for the fact that Baby was a virus and he retained his original form even after he possessed Vegeta, whereas Zamasu was not a virus and switched bodies with Goku, so he was forced to throw away his actual original body. Well, Zamasu and Baby will certainly have identital techniques, right? Since Zamasu is a Baby rip-off, after all. Let's see... I am afraid that Zamasu doesn't have any of Baby's techniques, since he clearly cannot turn into a liquid-like form, he cannot possess other individuals by entering their bodies through wounds, he cannot gather the energy of his minions into a Revenge Death Ball, and most certainly doesn't have Vegeta's signature moves, the Final Flash and Galick Gun.

But, No, No, I should learn my place. Zamasu is clearly a Baby's rip-off. It -cannot- be otherwise. I mean, did you look at their hair? They both have white hair, so Zamasu must -obviously- be a Baby's rip-off. It doesn't matter that they have vastly different backstories (one is a Supreme Kai in-training, the other is an android created by the Tuffle race), it doesn't matter that they have vastly different techniques (point me to the episode where Baby used a Rose Kamehameha or the Blades of Justice), it doesn't matter that they have vastly different motivations (Baby wants to exterminate all Saiyans and conquer the Universe, Zamasu wants to get rid of all mortals and Gods and reshape the Multiverse into a beautiful, perfect and peaceful utopia), Zamasu is clearly a Baby's rip-off.

And while my favourite character in the entire franchise is Zamasu, I still voted for GT. Why, you may ask? Because Zamasu is obviously a Baby's rip-off, and without GT, there would be no Zamasu!

[PsionicWarrior]

This is endless. You already know the arc was requested by Toei, And you already know Toei has about a gazillion writers who have to actually write a full-fledged story out of the draft. This was discussed ad infinitum already and is not even overly helpful for the thread itself.

Are we talking about the arc or about the villain lol
All Super formats (movie, anime, manga) come from Toriyama's notes and you know that, giving Toei credit for the concept of Zamasu is as much bad faith as claiming GT is canon cheers lol

[Cetra]

Except for the fact that Baby was a virus and he retained his original form even after he possessed Vegeta

Baby is also not a virus. A virus needs a host to live on. Baby does not. And a virus uses its host to replicate. That is also not comparable to what he did with his servants.

All Super formats (movie, anime, manga) come from Toriyama's notes and you know that

No, I don't know that you you don't either. If I write a 5 pages long idea and give it to someone telling him to write a 1000 hours/pages book then I am still not "more of the creator" than the person who actually had to invest the time in its creation. And Toei had a lot of writers working on this arc once they had this draft. Dragon Ball Super is a co-production. Do not make Toriyama-san the god he is not.

giving Toei credit for the concept of Zamasu is as much bad faith as claiming GT is canon cheers lol

You are right, I should not give it Toei, I should give it to whoever created Xicor. If only a person who used another incarnation of Xicor in his own doujinshi *cough Dragon Ball AF by Toyble* was an official member for working on Dragon Ball ... hm ... I wonder who that would be.

Also I will not get into the canonicity argument with you again because you can still not form a grammatically correct sentence using the word canonical so I highly doubt that you after the last few months have learned how canonicity works and only hide behind your million lols to ridicule your respective other.

[sunsetshimmer]

They have as much in common than Black has with Ginyu and that's already a stretch lol

Don't be ridiculous. Ginyu is completely different character. The only they have in common is that they stole Goku's body.

Both Zamasu and Baby threat humans/saiyans as barbarians, yet they were obsessed with their powers.
They both steal saiyan body despite thinking of them as barbarians (Ginyu didn't think anything like that)
They both betrayed those who took care for them for years (Gowasu/Myuu)
They both used dragon balls to achieve their dreams
They both achieved recolored version of regular SSJ (Pink/White)
They both were extremely childish and easy to make mad
They were both big hypocrites for acting like barbarians themselves
They both didn't consider themselves evil and believed that they are doing something right

The biggest difference between them is that Baby wanted to rebuild his race so he didn't want to kill everyone, while Zamasu didn't want anyone to live even if they followed him.

Why do you think there are many Baby Vegeta vs Goku Black fanarts? Or mods/fanarts for Baby Vegito Black?
And not Fused Goku (took by both Zamasu and Ginyu)?

Because people know that Baby and Zamasu are in many ways the same concept handled in very different way.

errr no, Zamasu came from Toriyama's notes not from the brains of Toei lol

I might be wrong and need a source, but from what i've heard, TOEI made most of this saga and Toriyama himself didn't even knw what will exactly happen and how it ends.

[FortuneSSJ]

I love how its always about GT vs Super, because DB and DBZ are put on a pedestal that makes them the best ones by default.

[Cetra]

I love how its always about GT vs Super, because DB and DBZ are put on a pedestal that makes them the best ones by default.

People only do that because those are the two ones "coming after everything else" so there is some sense behind it. But yes, if I were to take the others into the argument I would have the original Dragon Ball far above most parts of Super and GT, except for GT's ending, Zamasu and some Baby arc stuff.

[sunsetshimmer]

I love how its always about GT vs Super, because DB and DBZ are put on a pedestal that makes them the best ones by default.

Yeah i don't like that as well. Especially with DBZ that everyone praises. GT and Super are always threated as something totally minor.

[Cetra]

I love how its always about GT vs Super, because DB and DBZ are put on a pedestal that makes them the best ones by default.

Yeah i don't like that as well. Especially with DBZ that everyone praises. GT and Super are always threated as something totally minor.

Which I don't understand because I think Z is the most inferior of all four. Like Pokémon Red/Blue/Green. A classic but not really want I want out of the franchise.

[PsionicWarrior]

GT and Super are always threated as something totally minor.

I have a hunch it is because they are lol

[SupremeKai25]

Baby is also not a virus. A virus needs a host to live on. Baby does not. And a virus uses its host to replicate. That is also not comparable to what he did with his servants.

Baby is an android, Zamasu is a Kai, they are completely different.

Both Zamasu and Baby threat humans/saiyans as barbarians

Like Frieza.

yet they were obsessed with their powers.

Zamasu was obsessed and feared them.

They both steal saiyan body despite thinking of them as barbarians

The difference is that Zamasu threw away his actual body, whereas Baby retained it and could leave Vegeta's body whenever he wanted (something Zamasu couldn't do).

They both betrayed those who took care for them for years (Gowasu/Myuu)

However, Baby created Myuu to gather the energy he needed, whereas Zamasu was Gowasu's student, so they had a different relationship. And while Baby saw Myuu as a mere tool, Zamasu genuinely cared for Gowasu and was honored to learn from him, for a while.

They both used dragon balls to achieve their dreams

Baby used the Super Dragon Balls? Baby used the Dragon Balls twice? Baby gathered the Dragon Balls all by himself?

They both achieved recolored version of regular SSJ (Pink/White)

Now we're just grasping at straws. If that's the case, they are both rip-offs of Broly (SSJ Green).

They both were extremely childish and easy to make mad

Just like Frieza and Buu.

They were both big hypocrites for acting like barbarians themselves
They both didn't consider themselves evil and believed that they are doing something right

You finally found a similarity between the two of them. That still doesn't make Zamasu a rip-off of Baby.

Why do you think there are many Baby Vegeta vs Goku Black fanarts? Or mods/fanarts for Baby Vegito Black?

And that means that people think that Black is a rip-off of Baby?

So much hate for Zamasu in this thread, you guys really ought to rewatch that arc of Super.

[Cetra]

Baby is also not a virus. A virus needs a host to live on. Baby does not. And a virus uses its host to replicate. That is also not comparable to what he did with his servants.

Baby is an android, Zamasu is a Kai, they are completely different.

Did you answer the wrong person? This answer does not really fit the quote.

So much hate for Zamasu in this thread, you guys really ought to rewatch that arc of Super.

Your Zamasu roleplay - yes, I know you do not think this is a roleplay because you are actually convinced that your stand for those values, etc. yadayada - is getting out of hand. Zamasu is my most favourite character. That does not mean one cannot talk about the ups and downs of something. And I did not even criticise him so I don't know which "guys" you are talking about because that pretty much leaves only sunset as the one criticising him.

[SupremeKai25]

Baby is also not a virus. A virus needs a host to live on. Baby does not. And a virus uses its host to replicate. That is also not comparable to what he did with his servants.

Baby is an android, Zamasu is a Kai, they are completely different.

Did you answer the wrong person? This answer does not really fit the quote.

No. I remarked that Baby is an android (not a virus), yet that still makes him radically different from Zamasu, a Kai.

If Zamasu were a Baby's rip-off, he would have a similiar backstory, and he would be of the same species at the very least. But, guess what? He isn't.

Or, let's put it this way. If Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby because he is a hypocrite and he views himself as a hero, then Baby is a rip-off of Frieza because he is an alien villain who is carrying out a vengeful crusade against Saiyans.

Oh, and guess what? Even if Zamasu were a rip-off of Baby (which he isn't), he is still one of the most popular characters in Dragon Ball and episode 47, which is the first episode of the Zamasu saga when Goku Black appears for the first time, has the highest ratings in all of Dragon Ball Super.

Your Zamasu roleplay - yes, I know you do not think this is a roleplay because you are actually convinced that your stand for those values, etc. yadayada - is getting out of hand

If it were roleplay, I would be acting in character, but I am not. If I thought I were Zamasu, why would refer to myself in 3rd person?

[Cetra]

Or, let's put it this way. If Zamasu is a rip-off of Baby because he is a hypocrite and he views himself as a hero, then Baby is a rip-off of Frieza because he is an alien villain who is carrying out a vengeful crusade against Saiyans.

Pretty much every villain at this point is a rip-off of someone else because there is only so much you can do. Zamasu is at least 3 Square Enix villains thrown in a blender.

If it were roleplay, I would be acting in character, but I am not. If I thought I were Zamasu, why would refer to myself in 3rd person? Look up what roleplay is, please.

You do not need to directly think you are Zamasu (whether one has a massive psychological disorder and really thinks it or play him is of no relevance even, the point is one is living it out) and your attempt of once more channeling his arrogance just to counter and defend yourself is even more accentuating that you are trying to channel him as much as you can. Do yourself a favor and be more honest to yourself than Zamasu is. Everyone here knows your posts. They are channeling Zamasu to the fullest.

[Torturephile]

Seems like Super vs. GT threads in Kanzenshuu never end well.

I'll pick both. Can we all have ice cream together now?

[sunsetshimmer]

Ugh, this argument that Zamasu is a Baby rip-off again.

You are so obsessed with Zamasu in every way that you take everything too serious.
Being a rip-off (or even just something very similar by coincidence - to not make you think i totally believe TOEI copied Baby on purpose) doesn't mean being the same in every way. The same techniques? Seriously?

Did Frieza use poison needle on Namek? No? So Frost isn't Frieza ripoff at all?
Super 17 saga ripped-off entire concept of everyone coming back from hell. But they didn't show Bojack. There was no Janemba. They got free for compeltely different reason. So it's not a ripoff?

Like Frieza.

Frieza threated them as monkeys and lowlifes. Zamasu and Baby thought that saiyans are evil, while they are not. Frieza never pretended to be good.

Zamasu was obsessed and feared them.

And so was Baby. That's why he was afraid to fight saiyans without using sneaky tactics and refused to leave Gohan's body to face Vegeta like a man. That's why he almost shat his pants when he saw Goku transforming into Oozaru and was so desperate that took risk of transforming into Oozaru as well even though he wasn't sure he can control it.

However, Baby created Myuu to gather the energy he needed, whereas Zamasu was Gowasu's student

You are right, the differnce is that Zamasu betrayed someone above him, Baby someone below him.

Now we're just grasping at straws. If that's the case, they are both rip-offs of Broly (SSJ Green).

No, because those were forms that Baby and Black invent and Broly has nothing to do with them. I am just connecting set of similarities.
In other case we would find many things that Baby or Zamasu had in common with others. The point is they have more than one thing in common.

Just like Frieza and Buu

Once again - different characters.
Also, Buu was overall childish, he didn't pretend to be mature.
Agree with Frieza tho.

And that means that people think that Black is a rip-off of Baby?

No, that menas people see many similarities between them and not Baby-Buu or Zamasu-Ginyu.

[PsionicWarrior]

Except for the fact that Baby was a virus and he retained his original form even after he possessed Vegeta

Baby is also not a virus. A virus needs a host to live on. Baby does not. And a virus uses its host to replicate. That is also not comparable to what he did with his servants.

All Super formats (movie, anime, manga) come from Toriyama's notes and you know that

No, I don't know that you you don't either. If I write a 5 pages long idea and give it to someone telling him to write a 1000 hours/pages book then I am still not "more of the creator" than the person who actually had to invest the time in its creation. And Toei had a lot of writers working on this arc once they had this draft. Dragon Ball Super is a co-production. Do not make Toriyama-san the god he is not.

giving Toei credit for the concept of Zamasu is as much bad faith as claiming GT is canon cheers lol

You are right, I should not give it Toei, I should give it to whoever created Xicor. If only a person who used another incarnation of Xicor in his own doujinshi *cough Dragon Ball AF by Toyble* was an official member for working on Dragon Ball ... hm ... I wonder who that would be.

Also I will not get into the canonicity argument with you again because you can still not form a grammatically correct sentence using the word canonical so I highly doubt that you after the last few months have learned how canonicity works and only hide behind your million lols to ridicule your respective other.

Well yes it's a co-production alright, but I 100% disagree with your pov (at least as much as in the canon talk lol)
it's easy for others to exploit a good idea the real challenge is to have the good idea to start with lol
but this is really our extreme differences in opinions, there is no need for the condescending attitude really cheers man lol

[Cetra]

Well yes it's a co-production alright, but I 100% disagree with your pov (at least as much as in the canon talk lol)
it's easy for others to exploit a good idea the real challenge is to have the good idea to start with lol
but this is really our extreme differences in opinions, there is no need for the condescending attitude really cheers man lol

I might have went a bit far but it is extremely annoying that you take nothing seriously with your cheers mate lol that is the most recurring thing in your posts. It is hard to differéntiate whether it is just your way of "just my two cents peace out" or really what a "lol" is about.

And the functionality and decision about canonicity is no matter of opinion. I already told you that. You are no owner, I am no owner.

Shoutouts to SupremeKai though. He had the courtesy to edit his post about "look up what roleplay is" and erase that part.

[PsionicWarrior]

I might have went a bit far but it is extremely annoying that you take nothing seriously with your cheers mate lol that is the most recurring thing in your posts. It is hard to differéntiate whether it is just your way of "just my two cents peace out" or really what a "lol" is about.

no worries at all and no offense taken, I sometimes feel it's nice to cheer up a bit when there appears to be some kind of storm in a teacup lol

[SupremeKai25]

You are so obsessed with Zamasu

Yes, I am.

Being a rip-off (or even just something very similar by coincidence - to not make you think i totally believe TOEI copied Baby on purpose) doesn't mean being the same in every way. The same techniques? Seriously?

So Baby is a rip-off of Frieza, since he is an alien who hates Saiyans. Your entire argument is to prove that Zamasu is a bad villain because he is a rip-off of Baby, No? But then Baby is also a bad villain, since he took elements from various previous villains, such as Frieza.

In fact, I don't have a problem with Zamasu being a rip-off of Baby. Whatever. Zamasu is still one of the most popular villains in Dragon Ball. But then why are you bashing Zamasu for being a rip-off of Baby when Baby himself is a rip-off of Frieza?