Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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hleV
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by hleV » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:51 am
CaBrPi wrote:Then why are you freaking out over whether it's canon or not?
There are people who consider canon anything they
like in DB, and there are people who use
logic and certain
rules to determine what is
likely to be canon (and by canon I mean "true to the original manga"). If the Chozenshu somehow implies that some things are more "true" than the others, and that breaks the self-made "rules for canon", it may leave people in even bigger confusion than before.
- The movies - blatantly contradict the manga, thus can't be canon. Those movies which don't necessarily contradict anything, may still be treated as untrustworthy, since they're not really the original author's work (and in Bardock special's case, Toriyama admitted that, while he liked the movie, it's not how he would've made that story himself); also, even if there's no apparent contradiction in a movie, it still belongs to the movie collection, and since most of the movies do have contradictions, it may be "risky" to just accept one of the movies only because it ended up not contradicting anything.
- Fillers - some of them blatantly contradict the manga, thus can't be canon. Same thing as with the movies - if a filler does not contradict anything, it still belongs to the filler collection, and since quite a few fillers do have contradictions, all of them may as well be treated as untrustful.
- GT - one big filler. With contradictions. Non-canon.
- The list goes on for all other official DB media...
Surely the logic defining
canon may differ among people, and that's fine.
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Wobbuffet
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by Wobbuffet » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:41 am
hleV wrote:[*]GT - one big filler. With contradictions. Non-canon.
Dragon Ball GT may be anime exclusive, but it's not filler. It didn't fill anything.
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hleV
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by hleV » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:48 am
Wobbuffet wrote:hleV wrote:[*]GT - one big filler. With contradictions. Non-canon.
Dragon Ball GT may be anime exclusive, but it's not filler. It didn't fill anything.
I didn't mean it literally.
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Tanooki Kuribo
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by Tanooki Kuribo » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:47 am
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Canon is determined by the fanbase. Obviously the manga is the base for our decisions but as a whole if you feel GT should be canon then its canon to you, if you feel it shouldn't be canon then its non canon to you.
I know what canon is. I was just trying to dance around the issue that everyone has their own canon when it really should just be anything that's released.
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Fox666
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by Fox666 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:56 am
deleted
Last edited by
Fox666 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hleV
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by hleV » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:05 am
Tanooki Kuribo wrote:
I know what canon is. I was just trying to dance around the issue that everyone has their own canon when it really should just be anything that's released.
Oh the irony.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:19 am
I think that what Tanooki Kuribo wants to say is that since there is no official canon, then everything is canon.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Insertclevername
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by Insertclevername » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:24 am
hleV wrote:Tanooki Kuribo wrote:
I know what canon is. I was just trying to dance around the issue that everyone has their own canon when it really should just be anything that's released.
Oh the irony.
What he said was still valid.
[Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard]
c : a sanctioned or accepted* group or body of related works <the canon of great literature>
*Despite the (interpretable) statements for the new movie, nothing in the franchise is
officially considered "accepted".
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
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hleV
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by hleV » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:27 am
Insertclevername wrote:
What he said was still valid.
[Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard]
c : a sanctioned or accepted* group or body of related works <the canon of great literature>
*Despite the (interpretable) statements for the new movie, nothing in the franchise is officially considered "accepted".
We're not going by the real word definition of 'canon', but what's true to Toriyama's original work. Because, y'know... who killed Cargo and other stuff.
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Dorexx
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by Dorexx » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:40 am
In a universe Freeza killed Cargo, in another universe Dodoria did. In a universe GT happened, in another universe DBO did. In a universe Goku died of a heart virus, in another he lived.
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Tanooki Kuribo
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by Tanooki Kuribo » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:56 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I think that what Tanooki Kuribo wants to say is that since there is no official canon, then everything is canon.
Yea, kinda. But more like, I know what canon is
to the fans. But it
should just be anything that's officially released. Why should DBGT not be considered canon? I hate it too, but I can't just ignore it.
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Gyt Kaliba
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by Gyt Kaliba » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:50 pm
Sorry to backtrack to something from a few pages back, but -
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Gyt Kaliba wrote:Geez though, Kaio & Kaioshin, Maikaioshi, Hakaishin - the godly hierarchy of Dragon Ball sure has gotten larger since the original series ended. Not that I'm complaining really though.
While not everyone will choose to accept it, for what it's worth, Dragon Ball Online added a "Kaiojinkan" (World King of Time) too.
Really? What the heck does the Kaiojinkan do?
And does it come across as something that's just a game gimmick, or does it feel legit like a lot of the timeline for DBO does?
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JP6GAMER
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by JP6GAMER » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:04 pm
DBO is non-canon, right?
" You can take control of my mind and my body, but there is one thing a Saiyan always keep... his PRIDE! "-Vegeta
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B
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by B » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:23 pm
JP6GAMER wrote:DBO is non-canon, right?
Canon to what?
(But yes, it is!)
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hleV
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by hleV » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:39 pm
Tanooki Kuribo wrote:
Yea, kinda. But more like, I know what canon is to the fans.
It's not about something being canon to the fans, it's about it being impossible for several things that contradict each other to all be canon/true/whatever at once. It's either one of them, or none.
But it should just be anything that's officially released.
How? "True to the manga" is not the same as "official".
Why should DBGT not be considered canon? I hate it too, but I can't just ignore it.
Well, why should it be? It's official, no one's arguing with that. True to the manga? Impossible because of contradictions.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:10 pm
Tanooki Kuribo wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I think that what Tanooki Kuribo wants to say is that since there is no official canon, then everything is canon.
Yea, kinda. But more like, I know what canon is
to the fans. But it
should just be anything that's officially released. Why should DBGT not be considered canon? I hate it too, but I can't just ignore it.
We can just ignore it actually. Plot holes a many. Not to mention characters seem very out of character at times. Here let me name a few plot holes: Gohan is a SSJ, SSJ4 is a thing regardless of Toriyama's statement about the tail, Goku and Vegeta attempt fusion not even 10 minutes after diffusing, Rou Kaioshin knowing about SSJ4, etc.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:15 pm
JP6GAMER wrote:DBO is non-canon, right?
There is not an official Dragon Ball canon. It does follow exclusively the manga (I haven't noticed or heard anything about plot holes) code Toriyama is heavily involved to the game:
Series creator Akira Toriyama has a great deal of creative control over the project, both contributing to and supervising the story and art design, including character and location arrangements. It has been stated that Toriyama has worked on character designs for this project for over five years.
Now it's up to you to decide if you are going to include it in your personal canon.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Goku and Vegeta attempt fusion not even 10 minutes after diffusing
The one hour break is because of Super Saiyan 3. Normally, Fusion doesn't have a book down time, as we saw in the manga.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:17 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:JP6GAMER wrote:DBO is non-canon, right?
There is not an official Dragon Ball canon. It does follow exclusively the manga (I haven't noticed or heard anything about plot holes) code Toriyama is heavily involved to the game:
Series creator Akira Toriyama has a great deal of creative control over the project, both contributing to and supervising the story and art design, including character and location arrangements. It has been stated that Toriyama has worked on character designs for this project for over five years.
Now it's up to you to decide if you are going to include it in your personal canon.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Goku and Vegeta attempt fusion not even 10 minutes after diffusing
The one hour break is because of Super Saiyan 3. Normally, Fusion doesn't have a book down time, as we saw in the manga.
You have to wait 30 minutes to an hour before fusing again.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Saiga
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by Saiga » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:35 pm
I'm 100% sure Super Saiyan 3 has nothing to do with the 1 hour cooldown period for fusion.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on
my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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JeffJarrett
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by JeffJarrett » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:24 am
TheMightyOzaru wrote:We can just ignore it actually. Plot holes a many. Not to mention characters seem very out of character at times. Here let me name a few plot holes: Gohan is a SSJ, SSJ4 is a thing regardless of Toriyama's statement about the tail, Goku and Vegeta attempt fusion not even 10 minutes after diffusing, Rou Kaioshin knowing about SSJ4, etc.
Those things don't contradict the manga: it was never stated Gohan lost his ability to turn Super Saiyan, SS4 what??, Goku and Vegeta attempt the fusion but they were not able to fuse again, the Kai and Kaioshin are said to know everything. Conclusion:
Dragon Ball GT doesn't contradict the manga.
