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[Bullza]

And that concept can be buried into the ground. We saw that with Broly. Far too many movies and TV shows find a good villain and keep them around long after their "sell by" date.

Yeah but that hasn't happened with Frieza yet. Everyone only says good things about he's been portrayed in this current saga.

It was interesting. It's a fun movie to watch, which is what people are looking for.

The same of which can be said about Resurrection F as well which is more successful.

What was interesting about Battle of Gods could have been made more interesting but it wasn't.

It was hardly a bombshell, and worth little more than a mention, if that. It was a giant retcon that doesn't work well. There's no payoff to it as Freeza plays no active role in the movie.

Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta was what led to practically everything that happened. It is probably the most important event in the series because of it.

All that time we had been led to believe that Frieza had done so of his own accord because of a fear for the Saiyans. However it turned out that Beerus knew about this and actually let him do it, he is as much to blame for the eradication of the Saiyans as Frieza.

That is something that could have been brought up to either Goku or Vegeta which would have made for added conflict.

It has also been brought up again since the Resurrection F saga.

And yet we have no idea why this happened. Why did he ok it? Why did he go from allowing Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta to him wanting to kill Frieza himself? We don't know any of this and it's fairly important stuff that we could have been shown and it wasn't.

These are two major characters that are currently in the series who have a complicated relationship and past with each other and the best we know of it is in a Toriyama interview that most haven't read.

It could be it's own special itself nevermind having a few minutes spare in the movie to explain what actually went on.

[ABED]

It has happened with Freeza. They constantly trot him out and he becomes less interesting every single time.

The same of which can be said about Resurrection F as well which is more successful.

You can't possibly know the reasons why. It could have little to do with the actual quality of the film itself. Often times sequels are more successful even if they are worse than their predecessor. Don't equate box office with quality.

And yet we have no idea why this happened.

He's the god of destruction. It's his job to destroy. That is literally the only explanation.

Considering how little meaning Planet Vegeta means to either Goku or Vegeta, I don't think it would matter that Beerus okayed its destruction and more to the point, reframing it as having to do with Beerus is dumb. It doesn't add anything to the story, it just detracts from Freeza's character.

[Bullza]

It has happened with Freeza. They constantly trot him out and he becomes less interesting every single time.

Only in crappy filler.

You can't possibly know the reasons why. It could have little to do with the actual quality of the film itself. Often times sequels are more successful even if they are worse than their predecessor. Don't equate box office with quality.

I never said it was more successful because of quality. I do however know exactly why it was more successful though, I didn't make that box office thread for nothing you know.

He's the god of destruction. It's his job to destroy. That is literally the only explanation.

Considering how little meaning Planet Vegeta means to either Goku or Vegeta, I don't think it would matter that Beerus okayed its destruction and more to the point, reframing it as having to do with Beerus is dumb. It doesn't add anything to the story, it just detracts from Freeza's character.

It is Beerus' job to destroy planets but he wasn't the one who destroyed it was he? He allowed someone else to destroy it? Why? Why did he allow Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta as was suggested in Resurrection F but then also wanted to kill Frieza when he next saw him as was suggested in Battle of Gods?

We have no idea because they showed nothing of this.

Goku might not care too much but Vegeta would. He even wants to revive the Saiyans in Universe 6 if he wins the Tournament so of course he cares. It didn't add anything to the story because they completely glossed over the whole thing.

[ABED]

I do however know exactly why it was more successful though, I didn't make that box office thread for nothing you know.

No you don't. It's the result of thousands or millions of people making their own decisions for individual, multiple reasons. That's mere conjecture on your part.

Only in crappy filler.

Not just in crappy filler, nor can we disregard that either. Even if we do. Freeza was defeated decisively by Goku, killed by Trunks like he was a ham and egger, and killed by Goku yet again in RoF. Let sleeping dogs lie, don't flog a dead horse, get out while the gettin's good, any number of other idioms.

It is Beerus' job to destroy planets but he wasn't the one who destroyed it was he? He allowed someone else to destroy it? Why? Why did he allow Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta as was suggested in Resurrection F but then also wanted to kill Frieza when he next saw him as was suggested in Battle of Gods?

We have no idea because they showed nothing of this.

Goku might not care too much but Vegeta would. He even wants to revive the Saiyans in Universe 6 if he wins the Tournament so of course he cares. It didn't add anything to the story because they completely glossed over the whole thing.

Then answer them in RoF, not Battle of Gods as it has nothing to do with his fight against Goku. And Vegeta wouldn't care that much. He never did. He didn't care about learning Freeza killed his father, and let's not forget that he killed Nappa and tried to kill Goku - the two remaining Saiyans. His words say he cares about the Saiyans, his actions don't.

At least with Pilaf, I'm laughing, and there was the tension if Pilaf would be the one to set Beerus off.

[Bullza]

No you don't. It's the result of thousands or millions of people making their own decisions for individual, multiple reasons. That's mere conjecture on your part.

There's much more to it than that. It has nothing to do with conjecture, I know very well why it made more money.

Not just in crappy filler, nor can we disregard that either. Even if we do. Freeza was defeated decisively by Goku, killed by Trunks like he was a ham and egger, and killed by Goku yet again in RoF. Let sleeping dogs lie, don't flog a dead horse, get out while the gettin's good, any number of other idioms.

Why though? Why can't they bring him back? They do it constantly in Western comics.

Frieza is proving to be popular in this saga. The general consensus seems to be that they've portrayed him very well, better than in Resurrection F. His involvement is making it more interesting than if you had someone like Yamcha.

Then answer them in RoF, not Battle of Gods as it has nothing to do with his fight against Goku. And Vegeta wouldn't care that much. He never did. He didn't care about learning Freeza killed his father, and let's not forget that he killed Nappa and tried to kill Goku - the two remaining Saiyans. His words say he cares about the Saiyans, his actions don't.

It could have been answered along with his hatred of Frieza was a part of Battle of Gods. It's also more background and personality for the new character of the movie. Beerus sought Goku out after being told he'd beaten Frieza.

A 10 minute pointless subplot involving the Pilaf Gang and spray painting poops had nothing to do with Goku's fight with Beerus yet they still put it in unfortunately.

Vegeta isn't a dick anymore. He didn't care about Bulma at a first either. He always had his Saiyan pride and wants to go out of wish to make sure they survive. He even wants to go the Saiyan Home world so of course he cares. If you think he doesn't that wouldn't have stopped them from writing it in that he did care.

[ABED]

There's much more to it than that. It has nothing to do with conjecture, I know very well why it made more money.

Because of a forum thread?

Why though? Why can't they bring him back? They do it constantly in Western comics.

It's not an American comic with a beginning, an infinite middle with multiple continuities, and interpretations. DB is one continuous story. To do it like that waters down Freeza. Of course Freeza's popular. He's always been, and always will be. That's not a good story reason to keep going to that well. There's a good reason why Doyle only wrote one story with Professor Moriarty. It makes both Moriarty and Sherlock look ineffectual if both are constantly at odds. It means that neither can put the other away for good.

You keep bringing up consensus and popularity, but here's a shocker, people like what they know. If we use your American comics parallel, just because The Joker is the most popular Batman villain doesn't mean every Batman movie should have The Joker. At a certain point, the law of diminishing marginal returns will kick in.

[Bullza]

Because of a forum thread?

Because of a vastly increased theatre count, the addition of 3D, of 4DX, it was shown in many more countries, with more showings per day, it had better international marketing etc.

That's why it made more money.

You keep bringing up consensus and popularity, but here's a shocker, people like what they know. If we use your American comics parallel, just because The Joker is the most popular Batman villain doesn't mean every Batman movie should have The Joker.

But not every Dragon Ball saga has Frieza as a villain. He's had a significant role in only four canon sagas of which he's not even a villain in this saga up to yet. He's been in two out of just five of the sagas in this show.

He has a completely different role here compared to in the Resurrection F saga too. People are enjoying what they are doing with the character so it's not a problem.

It didn't affect Resurrection F's success and they obviously wouldn't have him as a main villain in the next movie either.

[ABED]

Didn't you say it made more money because of Freeza? ANd by the way, a larger theater count doesn't guarantee more revenue.

But not every Dragon Ball saga has Frieza as a villain. He's had a significant role in only four canon sagas of which he's not even a villain in this saga up to yet. He's been in two out of just five of the sagas in this show.

He has a completely different role here compared to in the Resurrection F saga too. People are enjoying what they are doing with the character so it's not a problem.

It didn't affect Resurrection F's success and they obviously wouldn't have him as a main villain in the next movie either.

That's 3 too many. Freeza was a great villain but the overreliance is annoying. Some like it, but some don't as well, so pointing to people liking something isn't a persuasive argument. If you want to see what happens when you over rely on a villain, look no further than Broly.

[Bullza]

Didn't you say it made more money because of Freeza?

No.

ANd by the way, a larger theater count doesn't guarantee more revenue.

Yes it does. More theatres means more showing, more showings means more money. Out the same money in 1/4 the amount of theatres and it wouldn't make the same amount of money.

Resurrection F was shown in over twice as many theatres as Battle of Gods in Japan. Over 200 more in US and that helped it make more money. I saw a quite a few comments from Americans who said they wanted to see Battle of Gods but couldn't because there wasn't a theatre near them showing it.

That's 3 too many. Freeza was a great villain but the overreliance is annoying. Some like it, but some don't as well, so pointing to people liking something isn't a persuasive argument. If you want to see what happens when you over rely on a villain, look no further than Broly.

You can say that about anything, that some people like it and some don't. Despite the fact that they've brought Frieza back again and he's playing a part in this current saga very few are complaining about it from what I've seen.

As long as people like what it is being done then it doesn't matter how many times they bring him back.

Broly was never a good character to begin with, his character never really warranted him coming back at all but he's popular. They haven't over relied on Frieza, this Tournament doesn't revolve around him, it would have worked without him but him being there has made it better so it was a worthwhile addition.

Edit: Infact people complained about Resurrection F and how they brought him back only to immediately kill him off again and do nothing with him. Well now they have with this. That complaint doesn't really apply anymore.

[ABED]

I haven't seen Super, but if they don't change Freeza like they did Piccolo or Vegeta, then he's going to inevitably get defeated AGAIN! That will be four times! The fact that he's a popular villain doesn't mean he should constantly be brought back. People like what they know.

I want a movie where they take the story some place that's refreshingly different. A new transformation isn't different, nor is trotting out an iconic villain. Sadly, both still sell.

[The gr]

I haven't seen Super, but if they don't change Freeza like they did Piccolo or Vegeta, then he's going to inevitably get defeated AGAIN! That will be four times! The fact that he's a popular villain doesn't mean he should constantly be brought back. People like what they know.

I want a movie where they take the story some place that's refreshingly different. A new transformation isn't different, nor is trotting out an iconic villain. Sadly, both still sell.

They could have freeza escaping from everyone else instead of making him a good guy.

[ABED]

What's the payoff with him escaping?

[The gr]

What's the payoff with him escaping?

Saving him for another saga where he gets defeated again i really don't know,what is a good payoff for freeza ,do you really thinking turning him to a good guy is a good idea.

[ABED]

What's the payoff with him escaping?

Saving him for another saga where he gets defeated again i really don't know,what is a good payoff for freeza ,do you really thinking turning him to a good guy is a good idea.

No, because we've seen three big bads turn good.

[Dbzfan94]

Why though? Why can't they bring him back? They do it constantly in Western comics.

Just because Western comics do it, and may work, that doesn't mean it'll universally work. Western comics have been going on for 50+ years with 10 different universes for each story.

Dragon Ball is one story.

While I've been enjoying Freeza this arc, the two are entirely different beasts. And it's not really fair to compare them.

[The gr]

No, because we've seen three big bads turn good.

Then what's the proper payoff for freeza.

[ABED]

No, because we've seen three big bads turn good.

Then what's the proper payoff for freeza.

Goku defeating him in decisive fashion over 25 years ago. We've already had it.

[2004]

If it's a new Movie I would love to have Nagamine to direct and doing the storyboard, but he's probably too busy with the anime. Hopefully Yamamuro doesn't handle everything again.

Nagamine is awesome?